Charlotte Pride

[brokenraven]

I'm a transplanted Southerner living in the Seattle area, where it is illegal to discriminate against gay people in employment, housing, accomidations etc. The laws have been in place for years.

I have come to take it for granted that anywhere I go, I can be "out" and be myself with no condemnation, including on the job. It seems so normal for me to have equal rights (except for marriage rights), and to be treated equally.

The South is going to have to tear down all the ugly walls religion has erected in order to become as free as Seattle is. Can it be done? When I lived in the South I realized I couldn't wait forever for "it" to happen: i.e. gay people being treated just like anyone else. So I left, to live my life in an area relatively free of homophobia and racism. I left my beloved South which I miss a great deal. But I think I did the right thing.

I believe Chapel Hill and Carrboro have such laws in place, if I'm not mistaken.

[Charlotteman]

Seattle's mayor has a Gay/Lesbian Community Liason officer (a high position). The city of Seattle now accepts gay marriages done in Massachusettes and other countries.i.e. gay city employees who married in Mass can have spousal benefits, insurance etc

The mayor always rides in a beautiful float in the yearly Gay Pride Parade..so does the police chief and Sheriff of King County.

You can't be fired for being gay...or evicted...or discriminated against. It simply is not tolerated here.

Can't wait for the day that gays FINALLY have equal rights. It will happen someday.

[voyager12]

Not to diverge too far from gay news relevant to Charlotte...but in the past year we have seen great progress nationwide. Most importantly in states that are "red". Colorado and Iowa, recently passed non-discrimination laws. And New Hampshire passed a civil union bill Progress. In NC I also think that Chapel Hill/Carrboro and Durham have city ordinances protecting against employment and housing discrimination. Asheville has employment protections but I don't think they cover housing. Concurrently, Orange and Durham Counties have their own laws and partner benefits. It would be wonderful if Mecklenburg had parity with these aformentioned counties but we don't have enough progressive Democrats to make it happen anytime soon.

Edited June 23, 2007 by voyager12

[DeeMan]

This is ridiculous, why should gays get special rights? Why should it be a crime to speak out openly against gays? I miss the America where you could say whatever you wanted and you just had to live with whatever you said to them. These gay laws are going to make us the next Europe, AKA a social failure, because it is literally illegal to live there since whatver you say or do is bound to upset someone especially the Muslims. If gays want equality then having "protective" rights automaticaly labels you as a minority that is praised by the left. The only way to be viewed as a normal citizen is to have the same "protective" rights as straight people which is NONE. Of course people are going to discriminate every now and then but take it like man and don't let it get to you. In France every worker has "protective" rights and it has been a failure and a deathblow to their econmy. So quit whinning and start living like a normal citizen if you want to be one!

[Manolos]

This is ridiculous, why should gays get special rights? Why should it be a crime to speak out openly against gays? I miss the America where you could say whatever you wanted and you just had to live with whatever you said to them. These gay laws are going to make us the next Europe, AKA a social failure, because it is literally illegal to live there since whatver you say or do is bound to upset someone especially the Muslims. If gays want equality then having "protective" rights automaticaly labels you as a minority that is praised by the left. The only way to be viewed as a normal citizen is to have the same "protective" rights as straight people which is NONE. Of course people are going to discriminate every now and then but take it like man and don't let it get to you. In France every worker has "protective" rights and it has been a failure and a deathblow to their econmy. So quit whinning and start living like a normal citizen if you want to be one!

we as a forum should just agree to ignore what was just said....

[DeeMan]

Does anyone ever have these experiences with religious conservative types down there? Anti-gay in theory yet unspokenly tolerant on a personal level?

[voyager12]

This is ridiculous, why should gays get special rights? Why should it be a crime to speak out openly against gays? I miss the America where you could say whatever you wanted and you just had to live with whatever you said to them. These gay laws are going to make us the next Europe, AKA a social failure, because it is literally illegal to live there since whatver you say or do is bound to upset someone especially the Muslims. If gays want equality then having "protective" rights automaticaly labels you as a minority that is praised by the left. The only way to be viewed as a normal citizen is to have the same "protective" rights as straight people which is NONE. Of course people are going to discriminate every now and then but take it like man and don't let it get to you. In France every worker has "protective" rights and it has been a failure and a deathblow to their econmy. So quit whinning and start living like a normal citizen if you want to be one!

Allowing gays to marry like straight people is not special rights. It's equal rights. Not allowing gay people to be fired from their jobs for being gay is not a special right it's equal rights. The same goes with finding a place to live, hospital visitations etc etc.. Of course you have every right to dissaprove of homosexuality and none of these needed laws prohibit you from expressing your free speech rights by speaking out against homosexuality.

Edited June 24, 2007 by voyager12

[monsoon]

Does anyone ever have these experiences with religious conservative types down there? Anti-gay in theory yet unspokenly tolerant on a personal level?

There are many people that take this stand such as myself, I am against homosexuality but I treat gays just like I would any other person, If it weren't for my Christian religion then I would not treat them the same way as straight people but most Christian sects teach to treat everyone the same because God would treat everyone equally no matter how much they have sinnes, So yes, one can be against a lifestyle but accept that person on a personal relationship

You have already demonstrated that you don't treat them as everyone else from your very first post on this site. Furthermore while you spout out the dogma of your religion you have demonstrated that you are not following it by judging people as "normal" or not and by what sins you think they might have have committed. You are perverting your religion to justify bigotry against others, and your comments aganst France, Europe, and just about anyone else that you have judged to be different than you are not welcome on this site and gives real Christians a bad name. Before you end up getting banned I recommend you go find a KKK or God Hates hags site and join there. If you are bigoted against Gays then you are going to find there are a lot of other things about UrbanPlanet that you don't like and nobody here is interested in your issues.

[Charlotte_native]

This is ridiculous, why should gays get special rights? Why should it be a crime to speak out openly against gays? I miss the America where you could say whatever you wanted and you just had to live with whatever you said to them. These gay laws are going to make us the next Europe, AKA a social failure, because it is literally illegal to live there since whatver you say or do is bound to upset someone especially the Muslims. If gays want equality then having "protective" rights automaticaly labels you as a minority that is praised by the left. The only way to be viewed as a normal citizen is to have the same "protective" rights as straight people which is NONE. Of course people are going to discriminate every now and then but take it like man and don't let it get to you. In France every worker has "protective" rights and it has been a failure and a deathblow to their econmy. So quit whinning and start living like a normal citizen if you want to be one!

You are falling for the propaganda against these bills. No one is trying to take away Free Speech. They are trying to prevent gay people from getting physically harrassed (I know you won't believe it, but it certainly does happen), from being fired just because someone finds out they are gay, or from other abuses, but nothing that says you can't "speak out openly against gays...". That is just sound bite stuff to work up those who don't agree with the "lifestyle".

The other "special" rights sought by gays and lesbians are the rights that come with marriage. I don't personally care if it is called marriage, partnership, or whatever, but straights certainly do have special rights. On one single day, with one act, all property rights and personal rights, inheritance rights, and visitation rights are passed to two people who have decided to commit to one another. For a gay couple to receive all of those same rights, they will have to file legal document after legal document (up to 40 of them) and keep them updated. Should one of the gay partners die, the family of the other might still be able to fight what they willingly filed and take property or children from the other against their will. That sounds like one group having a special right and the other having to go out of their way for the same rights. I appreciate the biblical argument against it, but if you want the right of free speech to remain (so people can "speak openly against gays") then I want the separation of Church and State to remain -- only fair don't you think?.

I really do believe you should have the right to feel as you do, but please don't let political and religious "spin" guide you. Read the actual Bills being presented in Congress -- they never say someone would be prosecuted for "speaking" against anyone. Only physical or employment abuses. Same ones that women and African-Americans faced only a couple decades ago.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Charlotte_native

[erdogs]

You are falling for the propaganda against these bills. No one is trying to take away Free Speech. They are trying to prevent gay people from getting physically harrassed (I know you won't believe it, but it certainly does happen), from being fired just because someone finds out they are gay, or from other abuses, but nothing that says you can't "speak out openly against gays...". That is just sound bite stuff to work up those who don't agree with the "lifestyle".

The other "special" rights sought by gays and lesbians are the rights that come with marriage. I don't personally care if it is called marriage, partnership, or whatever, but straights certainly do have special rights. On one single day, with one act, all property rights and personal rights, inheritance rights, and visitation rights are passed to two people who have decided to commit to one another. For a gay couple to receive all of those same rights, they will have to file legal document after legal document (up to 40 of them) and keep them updated. Should one of the gay partners die, the family of the other might still be able to fight what they willingly filed and take property or children from the other against their will. That sounds like one group having a special right and the other having to go out of their way for the same rights. I appreciate the biblical argument against it, but if you want the right of free speech to remain (so people can "speak openly against gays") then I want the separation of Church and State to remain -- only fair don't you think?.

I really do believe you should have the right to feel as you do, but please don't let political and religious "spin" guide you. Read the actual Bills being presented in Congress -- they never say someone would be prosecuted for "speaking" against anyone. Only physical or employment abuses. Same ones that women and African-Americans faced only a couple decades ago.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The only special rights gay people want are the rights every other American has, nothing more, nothing less. You are allowed to believe and say what you want, but that doesn't give you the right to make others live the way you see fit. It's simple, if you think being gay is wrong then stick with the opposite sex. No one is going to force you to be gay.

[voyager12]

I missed the report but CNN had Richard Florida on yesterday and he made the statement that gay friendly cities are more prosperous and attractive places to live. Charlotte apparently ranks very low on his scale of gay friendly cities. I suppose this is not breaking news to most people but in many ways Charlotte is a microcosm of the country at large. Some people have issues with homosexuality, some don't and many are conflicted. In two years the most I can report are a few glares and one taunt out of a car window. Perhaps because Charlotte is such a corporate dominated town a certain sense of professional decorum seeps into social interactions. Most people that disagree with homosexuality can still be polite to your face about it as long as gay visibility stays as limited as it is in Charlotte today and the boat is not rocked . Hopefully this attitude will change. One example is Salt Lake City, Utah which is located in bedrock Republican country and hosts several days of Gay Pride Celebrations and a large parade through downtown. And Salt Lake is garnering a reputation is a gay friendly destination as a result. Mayor Rocky Anderson is liberal and gay friendly but he is the lone exception to the majority Mormon conservatism, paraphrasing an activist quoted in the Utah article, " this city just grew up in the last few years". Who knows...maybe one day Charlotte will "grow up". To wrap things up Florida's current list of the most gay friendly cities in the US are Boston,Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Tampa. I can understand the first three but Tampa was a surprise to me.

Edited June 24, 2007 by voyager12

[DeeMan]

I guess what I failed to say is that if there are laws passed to prevent discrimination against gays when hiring, firing, buying houses and stuff, then these laws would be heavily abused. If someone gets fired after they find out he is gay and it had nothing to do with the fact he was gay then I assure you there will be some activist groups filing lawsuits even though the firing had nothing to do with discrimination. And what if the defendant gets stuck with a liberal judge. Protective laws will create a sense of resentment and entitlement within the gay community just like it is seen with other minorities such as latinos and black. And I'm not racist because I myself am a Latino. I have heard the lines "Why because I'm black" or "why becuse im latino" so many times. There are already laws against discrimination as a whole so why do we need more. Unfortunately there will always incidents that will get out of hand but that's inevitable.

[DeeMan]

I'm not trying to start an argument on weather people are born gay or not but I belive people choose to be gay. That said, one should suffer the consequences of ones desicion. Such as, If I choose to be gay then I need to live with the fact that people in America might discriminate against me and it was my desicion so I should have know the consequences before hand. If one choose to live in America, then one must embrace it and not try to mold it their own way. Most of you prob believe people are born gay, which in that case then people shouldn't descriminate since you can help it. So there really isn't a right or wrong since people have differeny ideas on the origins of homosexuality. People can't choose their race or sex so one shouldn't descriminate on those terms. But for religion and sexual origin one must live with the fact that you might be persecuted because of your choice. I'm a Christian and I always get put down and ridiculed by my teachers in our humanist school system but I know that being a Christian has its consequences. So until it is 100% proven that people are born gay they should be accountable for their actions in a Nation that is half against gays.

[Miesian Corners]

I missed the report but CNN had Richard Florida on yesterday and he made the statement that gay friendly cities are more prosperous and attractive places to live. Charlotte apparently ranks very low on his scale of gay friendly cities. I suppose this is not breaking news to most people but in many ways Charlotte is a microcosm of the country at large. Some people have issues with homosexuality, some don't and many are conflicted. In two years the most I can report are a few glares and one taunt out of a car window. Perhaps because Charlotte is such a corporate dominated town a certain sense of professional decorum seeps into social interactions. Most people that disagree with homosexuality can still be polite to your face about it as long as gay visibility stays as limited as it is in Charlotte today and the boat is not rocked . Hopefully this attitude will change. One example is Salt Lake City, Utah which is located in bedrock Republican country and hosts several days of Gay Pride Celebrations and a large parade through downtown. And Salt Lake is garnering a reputation is a gay friendly destination as a result. Mayor Rocky Anderson is liberal and gay friendly but he is the lone exception to the majority Mormon conservatism, paraphrasing an activist quoted in the Utah article, " this city just grew up in the last few years". Who knows...maybe one day Charlotte will "grow up". To wrap things up Florida's current list of the most gay friendly cities in the US are Boston,Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Tampa. I can understand the first three but Tampa was a surprise to me.

Not to flame, but Richard Florida is a kook. His data are completely skewed. The biggest issue with his methods being that he doesn't include lesbians in his "formula" for gays making places hip and trendy. Is he saying that since the stereotype gay female isn't as "fashion forward" as gay men that they don't offer the same WOW factor that gay males do? That little tidbit always gets overlooked when his books are quoted (and that irritates the sh*t out of me!). Meanwhile, Mr Florida is laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of cities that want desperately to be "cool".

As for Dee, dude, get a life. Although all views are welcome on this forum, baiting like you are doing will get you nowhere as a new member with only five posts. Open minds build great cities. Closed ones stagnate and decay.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Miesian Corners

[erdogs]

I'm not trying to start an argument on weather people are born gay or not but I belive people choose to be gay. That said, one should suffer the consequences of ones desicion. Such as, If I choose to be gay then I need to live with the fact that people in America might discriminate against me and it was my desicion so I should have know the consequences before hand. If one choose to live in America, then one must embrace it and not try to mold it their own way. Most of you prob believe people are born gay, which in that case then people shouldn't descriminate since you can help it. So there really isn't a right or wrong since people have differeny ideas on the origins of homosexuality. People can't choose their race or sex so one shouldn't descriminate on those terms. But for religion and sexual origin one must live with the fact that you might be persecuted because of your choice. I'm a Christian and I always get put down and ridiculed by my teachers in our humanist school system but I know that being a Christian has its consequences. So until it is 100% proven that people are born gay they should be accountable for their actions in a Nation that is half against gays.

I find it strange how people who are not gay can tell someone who is that they chose to be gay and were not born that way. Stick to such subjects that you know something about. Maybe you should prove 100 percent that you were born straight, so I won't decide to descriminate against you for choosing it.

[C_C_Planner]

I'm not trying to start an argument on weather people are born gay or not but I belive people choose to be gay. That said, one should suffer the consequences of ones desicion. Such as, If I choose to be gay then I need to live with the fact that people in America might discriminate against me and it was my desicion so I should have know the consequences before hand. If one choose to live in America, then one must embrace it and not try to mold it their own way. Most of you prob believe people are born gay, which in that case then people shouldn't descriminate since you can help it. So there really isn't a right or wrong since people have differeny ideas on the origins of homosexuality. People can't choose their race or sex so one shouldn't descriminate on those terms. But for religion and sexual origin one must live with the fact that you might be persecuted because of your choice. I'm a Christian and I always get put down and ridiculed by my teachers in our humanist school system but I know that being a Christian has its consequences. So until it is 100% proven that people are born gay they should be accountable for their actions in a Nation that is half against gays.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you are being put down because you are a Christian (though I don't see how that is true - God is love, remember?). I imagine you are being put down (a lot) because you are narrow-minded and discriminatory.

[Charlotte_native]

I think the "choice" issue can be summed up pretty easily. If one is somewhat intelligent, just a liittle bit, why in the world with an open choice that was just based on a fetish or desire for sex, would one actively choose a lifestyle that sets them up for abuse, ridicule, and discrimination? It just doesn't make sense. And why so many and for all of recorded history? So I've chosen to make my life more difficult. No one can really believe that...

[monsoon]

I'm not trying to start an argument on weather people are born gay or not but I belive people choose to be gay. That said, one should suffer the consequences of ones desicion. Such as, If I choose to be gay then I need to live with the fact that people in America might discriminate against me and it was my desicion so I should have know the consequences before hand. If one choose to live in America, then one must embrace it and not try to mold it their own way. Most of you prob believe people are born gay, which in that case then people shouldn't descriminate since you can help it. So there really isn't a right or wrong since people have differeny ideas on the origins of homosexuality. People can't choose their race or sex so one shouldn't descriminate on those terms. But for religion and sexual origin one must live with the fact that you might be persecuted because of your choice. I'm a Christian and I always get put down and ridiculed by my teachers in our humanist school system but I know that being a Christian has its consequences. So until it is 100% proven that people are born gay they should be accountable for their actions in a Nation that is half against gays.

This is a topic about the Gay & Lesbian Community in Charlotte. It is not a topic to discuss your religious beliefs, your issues with Gays, or anything else not related to the Gay & Lesbian Community in Charlotte of which, based your comments, I am sure you have no interest in participating with in a positive manner. As you note, Gays in this country have to put up with bigots on a daily manner and you just proved it here. It also ends here so make no more posts such as this in this topic or I am going to simply ban you and delete all your posts without comment.

Also, go read the rules.

Everyone else, drop it please. I will deal with this.

[voyager12]

The media does tend to treat Florida's words as gospel. I also think the media and public love lists, it just makes it easier for people to not have to think about issues. Much of his work is based upon the stereotype that if you just add "gay" to any rundown older city or neighborhood it becomes "hip". To the extent that gay people stick out because of our personal relationships opposed to the mainstream we may be seen as bellweathers but it takes all different types to bring a neighborhood back. One of the DCDA meetings I attended in the past had a slideshow and described how artists and hippies of all orientations moved into Dilworth when it was decaying and were essential to it's resurgence. So it's tough to pigeonhole one group. Although from what I hear many straight couples or gay friendly folk often ask realtors where the gay neighborhood is because they serve as social barometers of a sort to show how tolerant a city is. On that score Charlotte does well as many city neighborhoods here have gay residents. Jeez I sure can ramble...sorry!

Edited June 25, 2007 by voyager12

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

I just returned last evening from a weekend in Atlanta, where I attended the Gay Pride parade yesterday afternoon (in the seering heat, I might add). And even though I visit that city fairly regularly, I always come away amazed at the incredible contrast between Charlotte and Atlanta when it comes to the whole gay/lesbian thing. While there are so many similarities between the two cities (New South attitude, Southern culture, civic boosterism, pro-business environment, etc.), Atlanta is light years ahead of Charlotte when it comes to the issue of tolerance and inclusion of gays and lesbians. I can only dream of a gay pride parade in Charlotte that included a large segment of our local elected officials! (Can you see Bill James on a rainbow float?) And how disappointing to me as a North Carolinian that the contingent of protestors at the gates of Piedmont Park with their incredibly mean-spirited anti-gay messages, as well as the preacher who had set up a loudspeaker along the parade route to shout hateful things and harrass the crowd, were from none other than Concord, NC.

Of course, as a native of this area, I realize that Charlotte is more like other Southern cities on this issue and Atlanta is more of the exception. But it gives me hope that at least some of that feeling of inclusiveness, and less of Charlotte's "uptightness" about gays, can make its way up Interstate 85 to the Queen City.

Edited June 25, 2007 by PlazaMidwoodGuy

[voyager12]

I agree that Atlanta is light years ahead of Charlotte on gay inclusion. A lot of their accepting atmosphere has to do with ATL's status as a global business center. They have one of the busiest airports in the world and attract a wide range of people from across the country and the globe to CDC, Emory, Coca Cola etc etc. Aside from the thriving gay community there are also so many other ethnic groups that most Atlantans just see gay residents as another minority due the same respect as other citizens. Charlotte's exposure to such a mix is much smaller so those of us that do have a different orientation stick out more and are accepted less. Also, Atlanta has a gay friendly Mayor and an openly lesbian member of City Council. Our Mayor is anti-gay and is overwhelmingly reelected every time. Our straight elected allies are too few in number to make great progress. Aside from Jennifer Roberts most are too afraid to speak out publicly in our favor for political reasons. I would say we have a long way to go....

Edited June 25, 2007 by voyager12

[queensguy06]

To wrap things up Florida's current list of the most gay friendly cities in the US are Boston,Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Tampa. I can understand the first three but Tampa was a surprise to me.

I am very surprised that Dallas is not in that mix. I visited about a month ago and was utterly shocked. The big deal in Dallas while I was there was the fact that Ed Oakley was an openly gay candidate running for mayor - and had a solid chance at winning. And while he didn't win (Tom Leppert was the victor) his sexuality from what I got had little if anything to do with it. Here is a link to an article that was written a few days before the runoff between Leppert and Oakley:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19249594/site/newsweek/

And for anyone that hasn't been, I definitely encourage a trip to Dallas, no matter what your sexual orientation. It is a fun city with a good Southwestern flavor - I had a blast and can't wait to get the chance to go back!

[voyager12]

I also believe that Oakley's loss still makes a great statement about how far our country has come regarding homosexuality. To make it into a runoff election of a major city is an accomplishment all by itself. I read that Newsweek article a few weeks ago and the gay community in Dallas has made great strides because there was unity. Charlotte's gay community seems to have a lot of apathy and those that do care are often hamstrung and disillusioned by all the backstabbing and turf wars that go on inside the local gay advocacy groups, hindering progress on the local level.

[voyager12]

In the last month Winston Salem City Council unanimously passed a measure protecting gay city employees from discrimination. Winston-Salem joins Orange, Durham, Guilford, and Mecklenburg County, as well as the municipalities of Bessemer City, Carrboro, Chapel Hill, Durham, Greensboro, and Raleigh, in a growing list of county, city and town governments in North Carolina protecting employees on the basis of sexual orientation. Winston is hardly a liberal haven. I think it's ridiculous and embarassing that The City of Charlotte, the largest and most cosmopolitan city in the Carolinas does not have a parallel policy to Mecklenburg County's or domestic partner benefits and a registry. When these latter issues were brought up Syfert took the cop out route saying domestic partner benefits were "too expensive". Which is untrue and insulting. The huge metros of Chapel Hill and Carrboro provide them, I think Charlotte could manage it. Her successor is totally aligned with the same managerial view and nothing will change. The Democratic majority and Republicans both share the blame for being too afraid politically to do the right thing and we will continue to have a Mayor that will veto anything to do with treating Gay Charlotteans equally. Some "world class" city we have.

[voyager12]

I think it's important to acknowledge and express admiration for Tammy Faye's life here because of her strong support for the gay community in Charlotte. She was actively involved in helping AIDS support groups in town and also participated in Gay Bingo during her own long battle with cancer. She was definitely eccentric but her heart was even larger than her persona and she was a shining example of true Christian love for all regardless of the differences we all have. She will be greatly missed by many.