Charlotte Pride

[voyager12]

Actually UNC Charlotte's GLBT group is one of the driving forces behind local activism. But they don't have the same impact as UNC and Duke have had on their communities. I think part of the reason is the school's completely disengaged location lost in sprawl from the core. The diversity of their student body has had limited impact on the center of town.That will be somewhat ameliorated by their rockin cool future satellite buidling. Not the same as having a fullly engaged urban campus though.

Also, top ranked schools have the clout and prestige to draw people that are generally progressive and that translates into the towns that surround them. Different vibe from a banking center. Although Hugh McColl who is idolized here has long been a steadfast if not loudly public supporter of ours.

[Charlotte_native]

IMO, 1/3 of the country are still against Gays and Lesbians but won't admit it like they once did.

This, to me, draws very interesting parallels to blacks attaining civil rights and slowly being truly accepted as equals. Growing up here in Charlotte I heard plenty of overt and covert racial comments. I always remember people saying how they didn't like blacks for whatever stereotypical reason (lazy, on welfare, uppity, whatever) but that they liked the guy they worked with or their black friend at school. They were an exception to the race, right? What it really showed was that if you got to know someone for who they were and dropped the label, they simply were who they were. Today, though racism is far from dead, I don't hear that so much any more....except for us.

Now I see and hear people that 'don't agree with the lifestyle' or 'don't want their kids around gays' or 'don't like how gays have their agenda in your face'...

But I like uncle Kenny and his partner Jim. And my hairdresser is awesome. And our neighbors Chrystal and Kim are GREAT!

Same deal, different decade, different group.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

One of the results of the piecemeal patchwork evolution of gay equality throughout the country is that it raises the bar and expectations for more conservative areas. Once places have same-sex marriages, areas that don't even have nondiscrimination laws are perceived as woefully behind. About 17 states now recognize same sex unions to some degree which means that it is becoming the national norm. Progressive Blogs such as Americablog and Talks, cable media such as Olbermann and Jon Stewart, national organizations are catapulting gay rights into the must conservative places. People send money, manpower, resources and lobby politicians in places far from their homes. I called legislators in New Hampshire and sent money to CA although I live in NoVA. Charlotte GLBT need to nationalize their struggle in addition to building local grasssroots activism.

Edited June 10, 2009 by DCMetroRaleigh

[monsoon]

We are getting a lot of advice from people who don't live here. Please take this topic back to Charlotte.

[hokiehigh]

I cannot post here b/c I used to live in Charlotte and now I am moving back? What are the rules on this board? I like an outside perspective.

[monsoon]

I cannot post here b/c I used to live in Charlotte and now I am moving back? What are the rules on this board? I like an outside perspective.

Sigh. I did not say this. You can post anywhere you like as long as it is relevant to the topic at hand. I this case it is about the local Gay community and isn't about Gay rights in America. There is a difference.

[Skyybutter]

I think that the gay community in CLT is too complacent and timid, content with "not being bothered.". This is not enough. This is not 1988. Even gays in Iowa, Gainesville, Montana, Lexington KY, Delaware, Cincinnati, Kalamazoo, and Salt Lake City appear to be more politically ambitious that the CLT gay community. You would think Charlotte was in the Deep South based on its evolution on gay equality.

Could not agree more. After living in Philly for 5 years and then coming back to charlotte, I realized how complacent and timid charlotte gays are. Seems the community is to concerned with being "accepted" and therefore doesnt want to ruffle any feathers. In other major cities the "community" has more political power and maybe thats why they dont care as much as they do here. The Philly Equality Forum(sorta like a pride fest) was huge and the city actually shut down about a 4x4 block section of the center city for the fest.

[voyager12]

I used to the live in Philly too. Charlotte it ain't The city admin has actually designated a section of the city the "gayborhood" with rainbow accents on the street signs. It can feel a little Potemkin but it's an example of a very different worldview. And they have a comprehensive marketing campaign aimed the LGBT traveler. The head of Charlotte's CVB has stated on the record that we are not "ready" for that here. Charlotte is such a money town and they shrug off the very lucrative GLBT travel market. Our loss.

I am no expert on all aspects of the community here but there is no lack of very successful gay people in the upper echelons of the Charlotte establishment. Some closeted and some not. Regardless of orientation most people here like to maintain a smiling facade and go with the flow. Marching with our motley crew through Uptown doing a pride march would not go over to well at Myers Park Country Club or in the car pool lane at Charlotte Country Day. Some of these people have quietly used their influence for much good. And the Wesley Mancini Foundation does great work along with a GLBT fund dedicated to our issues at Foundation for the Carolinas. But we are not ground zero for on the street demonstrations. That's why I have taken trips to Chapel Hill and Asheville in the past to get my activist fix. But this is slowly changing with the creation of Charlotte Rainbow Action Network, we don't do weekly activites but our occasional events have gone pretty well so far. Although I need to take a break. I get so annoyed listening to the idiocy of our opponents that I lose my cool, which probably hurts more than it helps at times

[monsoon]

Indeed, but it may not be a fair comparison in any case. Charlotte is much smaller and much much less urban than Philly and suburban Philly isn't hugely different from suburban Charlotte. The difference is that Charlotte is 99% suburban whereas Philly isn't.

My theory on this is that Philly went through a huge amount of White flight in the 60s and 70s and had some very serious problems in the 1970s. You might remember the Mayor dropping a fire bomb from a helicopter on a compound of Black activists and ending up burning down 7 square blocks of housing and killing some people. All in all a horrible mess and a sign of what that place used to be like. So Gays and Lesbians, seeking to escape the police raids, moved into this portion of the city because nobody paid attention to it. Similar things happened in the other major cities of the USA in the 1960s & 1970s. Castro is the most famous example.

Charlotte never went through a similar episode as there was never White flight out of the city. Instead really bad urban renewal here simply removed huge swaths of the city and there was never an area that could develop in a similar fashion. White flight occurred in Philly due to school integration. Since Mecklenburg runs a county wide school system what happened here instead was the invention of the private school. Oddly enough, Charlotte was more tolerant in the area of race relations which also had the ironic effect of not forcing Gays into a forgotten area of the city. Sure there was similar police harassment here in CLT, some older gays that lived here in the 60s told me about the really bad treatment from the CMPD in those days, but activism here didn't really begin until the 80s and when it did, it quickly shifted to AIDS causes. A worthy cause but not one that gains a community political power.

There were the beginnings of a gayborhood in Dilworth, we have talked about this before, but extreme bland gentrification has eliminated that. At one time there was a Gay bath house, Oleens the Drag Queen bar, a Gay oriented book store called Friends of Dorothy, and I have been told the Scorpio started there as well. There was another bar in today's South End called the Odyssey. Charlotte's only Gay restaurant, Stephens opened in Dilworth, and there was another very gay oriented restaurant called Josh's which I believe started the trend of putting restaurants in old Victorian homes. There was a street in Dilworth, that actually had the nickname vaseline valley because of what went on there and of course there was the Disco Kroger. All in all it was very "festive" at one point. Imagine this stuff there today.

[hokiehigh]

There were the beginnings of a gayborhood in Dilworth, we have talked about this before, but extreme bland gentrification has eliminated that. At one time there was a Gay bath house, Oleens the Drag Queen bar, a Gay oriented book store called Friends of Dorothy, and I have been told the Scorpio started there as well. There was another bar in today's South End called the Odyssey. Charlotte's only Gay restaurant, Stephens opened in Dilworth, and there was another very gay oriented restaurant called Josh's which I believe started the trend of putting restaurants in old Victorian homes. There was a street in Dilworth, that actually had the nickname vaseline valley because of what went on there and of course there was the Disco Kroger. All in all it was very "festive" at one point. Imagine this stuff there today.

That is unimaginable! It's good to know though. I just couldn't see Charlotte like that now even though it is probably more liberal than back then. Charlotte's not all that bad though. If more people went out and the bars were more creative, then I think things could improve.

I did read a few months ago in the Southern Voice that in some ways gay bars may become a thing of the past. The theory is that as society becomes more accepting, then the need for gay bars will diminish. Meaning that you could go to mixed/straight bars and be accepted. It doesn't mean you can go out in Gastonia but some inner city establishments would be welcoming. It's probably more of a case for bigger cities, but I could see it happening in the future.

[Skyybutter]

I did read a few months ago in the Southern Voice that in some ways gay bars may become a thing of the past. The theory is that as society becomes more accepting, then the need for gay bars will diminish. Meaning that you could go to mixed/straight bars and be accepted. It doesn't mean you can go out in Gastonia but some inner city establishments would be welcoming. It's probably more of a case for bigger cities, but I could see it happening in the future.

I can see this happening to a degree, but things like Prop 8 have once again made the glbt community feel like the outcast and I think it has driven many of us back to the all- gay or lesbian bar/club. One local gay bar owner told me his business is up 40% from the same time last year. Thats a huge increase.

Though I like the idea of the general public being comfortabe with say a lesbian or gay couple dancing at the club together...I just dont see me being able to kiss my partner or grab his..well...anything....and get away with it at one of the uptown clubs.... Therefore I dont see the gay bar/club going away in my lifetime...Honestley, I hope it never does....

Oh and btw...Monsoon..I heard there was a bath house in charlotte at one point and I just cannot imagine that for some reason.... Totally blows my mind.... I remember Oleens and does anyone know of Scorpios having a pool or some type of hot tub on the outside patio at some point? Im almost certain someone told me that....anywho....though I have my gripes about Charlotte ( mostly because I have high expectations for her) its fun to know about the gay history of our city. Certainly over the years Charlotte has been an oasis for many gays and lesbians...

Edited June 12, 2009 by Skyybutter

[monsoon]

......

Oh and btw...Monsoon..I heard there was a bath house in charlotte at one point and I just cannot imagine that for some reason.... Totally blows my mind.... I remember Oleens and does anyone know of Scorpios having a pool or some type of hot tub on the outside patio at some point?.....

It was a Club South bath house located right on South Blvd. The building is not there now but was located approximately where Bland crosses South.

Yes there definitely was a pool at The Scorpio in the late 1980s. I want to say it was in the '87 - '88 time frame. Marion, the owner of Scorpio, was getting some fierce competition from another bar called Charades and put the pool to attract people to the Scorpio. That plan for success didn't work however as the Gays wouldn't get in it as it was referred to as the AIDS pool. (understandable given the circumstances of the day, but sometimes we are our own worst enemy) They eventually closed the pool and filled it in, I heard, because of liability reasons. Pools are a disaster for insurance policies. My guess is that it is not noticeable now as you would have to know where to look to see it. I would advise against going down into the Scorpio parking lot when the bar isn't open. It isn't exactly the safest place in Charlotte. As a side note Charades really attracted a different clientele than what went to The Scorpio.

I was told of another Gay establishment in the Dilworth area that was closer to downtown that pre-dates all of this. Remember in those days I-277 was not there so there wasn't any separation between Dillworth and the downtown area. Smaller buildings just merged into bigger buildings and all of the streets in Dilworth went downtown instead of dead ending just before I-277. There were hundreds of old buildings and the bar was located in one of them. For some reason I remember it being one known for being decorated with hanging potted plants. Maybe a Gay fern bar. It was closed long before I moved to CLT but plenty of people at the time remembered it.

The removal of large swaths of urban landscape for I-277, maybe square miles, of densely packed small business buildings by the building of that highway was a tragic loss and another reason IMO, there isn't a gayborhood in CLT now. That area might have developed into one.

[voyager12]

As an example of Charlotte's mix of cultures, there is a house on Old Statesville near the Metrolina Racetrack that has two big Confederate flags on the porch. Around the corner is Scotborough which was marketed to gay couples and has rainbow flags.

[Charlotte_native]

..I heard there was a bath house in charlotte at one point and I just cannot imagine that for some reason.... Totally blows my mind....

There still are bath houses in Charlotte - they now call them 24 hour workout clubs. I'm not talking about Peak Fitness, but just take a look at the back of a Creative Loafing sometime and check out the handful of non-chain all night clubs that advertise their locker and shower facilities.

[monsoon]

There still are bath houses in Charlotte - they now call them 24 hour workout clubs. .....

But they are not advertised as Gay establishments. Club South was a chain that catered specifically to Gay men. They mostly shutdown because of the late 80s AIDS crisis. However IMO, even if this had not have happened, this place would have never survived in Dilworth just as the other places didn't that once existed in Dilworth and what is now called South End. Charlotte is definately more conservative now because there were other places in the area, that I didn't mention that simply could not exist today.

[voyager12]

I have been going to the same barber since I moved here. Followed him from Kenilworth Commons to Latta Pav and the current Modern Hair Cuttters @ Park Rd Shopping Center. I knew the owners were conservative. They had Kaye McGarry stickers and McCrory stickers on the wall. But political differences are just that. And it was not relevant to getting my hair cut. I was always very polite and we got along just fine. Until a few minutes ago. The owner and a customer were talking about how "gays were know to take over certain places in NC, and the guy getting his haircut said the two guys next to him were such a pain and always complaining and that's how we "are". It was all very snide and derogatory in tone. I really tried to block it out at first because the guy I use rents his spot and has always been nice to me and knows I am gay. But these two kept on going on, so I stood up and told them straight people are messy too and they should watch what they say. And that I was never going back there again for a haircut because they were a bunch ( insert curse word) homophobes and I did a grand job of throwing my magazine down and storming out with a door slam. I heard my barber calling after me but I was already across the lot and way too steamed. Too bad though. He is a nice guy but I will not contribute to even the overhead cost of a shop run by phobes.

Truth be told, my hair is not that long yet. So I saved some money today. Another truth is that it's continually thinning so I cut it buzzed quite often so it looks neat and not patchy. I have very conventional hair and there is nothing innovative that can be done with it. I just need to find a new place, and maybe they will do an even better job!

[monsoon]

^You continue to earn my respect.

[HopHead]

I have been going to the same barber since I moved here. Followed him from Kenilworth Commons to Latta Pav and the current Modern Hair Cuttters @ Park Rd Shopping Center. I knew the owners were conservative. They had Kaye McGarry stickers and McCrory stickers on the wall. But political differences are just that. And it was not relevant to getting my hair cut. I was always very polite and we got along just fine. Until a few minutes ago. The owner and a customer were talking about how "gays were know to take over certain places in NC, and the guy getting his haircut said the two guys next to him were such a pain and always complaining and that's how we "are". It was all very snide and derogatory in tone. I really tried to block it out at first because the guy I use rents his spot and has always been nice to me and knows I am gay. But these two kept on going on, so I stood up and told them straight people are messy too and they should watch what they say. And that I was never going back there again for a haircut because they were a bunch ( insert curse word) homophobes and I did a grand job of throwing my magazine down and storming out with a door slam. I heard my barber calling after me but I was already across the lot and way too steamed. Too bad though. He is a nice guy but I will not contribute to even the overhead cost of a shop run by phobes.

Truth be told, my hair is not that long yet. So I saved some money today. Another truth is that it's continually thinning so I cut it buzzed quite often so it looks neat and not patchy. I have very conventional hair and there is nothing innovative that can be done with it. I just need to find a new place, and maybe they will do an even better job!

That's very unfortunate. Hopefully you drove a point through their thick skulls...

[hokiehigh]

Try Georgetown Day Spa in Plaza Midwood. Even though it is a "spa" it's affordable and gay freindly.

http://georgetowndayspa.com/

Glad you stood up for yourself!

[Skyybutter]

I have been going to the same barber since I moved here. Followed him from Kenilworth Commons to Latta Pav and the current Modern Hair Cuttters @ Park Rd Shopping Center. I knew the owners were conservative. They had Kaye McGarry stickers and McCrory stickers on the wall. But political differences are just that. And it was not relevant to getting my hair cut. I was always very polite and we got along just fine. Until a few minutes ago. The owner and a customer were talking about how "gays were know to take over certain places in NC, and the guy getting his haircut said the two guys next to him were such a pain and always complaining and that's how we "are". It was all very snide and derogatory in tone. I really tried to block it out at first because the guy I use rents his spot and has always been nice to me and knows I am gay. But these two kept on going on, so I stood up and told them straight people are messy too and they should watch what they say. And that I was never going back there again for a haircut because they were a bunch ( insert curse word) homophobes and I did a grand job of throwing my magazine down and storming out with a door slam. I heard my barber calling after me but I was already across the lot and way too steamed. Too bad though. He is a nice guy but I will not contribute to even the overhead cost of a shop run by phobes.

Truth be told, my hair is not that long yet. So I saved some money today. Another truth is that it's continually thinning so I cut it buzzed quite often so it looks neat and not patchy. I have very conventional hair and there is nothing innovative that can be done with it. I just need to find a new place, and maybe they will do an even better job!

Thats unfortunate. People can be so dumb. Kudos to you though!

[InitialD]

Lassiter responded to an email of mine stating that he has no position on these issues. How concise and clear of him

We have an interview with Lassiter coming up this Sunday evening. One of the questions I've put forth is, "Would you support adding sexual orientation to the city's non-discrimination policy, and would you support domestic partner benefits for city employees?"

EDIT: Also, if anybody has a question for the Lassiter town hall meeting, please ask it here.

Edited June 15, 2009 by InitialD

[voyager12]

^ I will be shocked if he says anything definitive. But it's a good thing to keep the subject out there. Since Charlotte politicians of all stripes treat us like lepers for the most part and those that do need to know that we are a part of this community and won't go away.

In a post last week, I said that homophobic comments don't bother me anymore. Well no armor is completely unpierceable. And It's important to pick the right battles strategically. But upon further reflection I still think it's incumbent upon us to call out homophobic speech when we hear it. Regardless if we are party to the conversation or not. I will continue to do so. Dialing back the decibel and content of my response to such incidents needs to be worked on. Looking back on the incident it was a classic case good ole boy bigotry gossping in the barber shop. Just switch out black people and put in gay. And we don't deserve that either. I want to call up "Modern Haircutters" at Park Road Shopping Center and tell them to change their name to "Hateful Haircutters". But I won't. That's over.

[monsoon]

On the issue of the Charlotte city government providing domestic benefits, there is a very strong rumor that Obama is going to announce tomorrow, the Federal government will do that for their employees. If this does happen, it will only go to demonstrate how backwards the locals are when it comes to these things. Charlotte boosters like to proclaim loudly this is a progressive city with world class aspirations, yet they still run it like an old back wash southern mill town.

[voyager12]

Since this thread is based on Charlotte gay issues, I don't want to go to far off topic nationally....but the "benefits" being offered while an improvement are scraps via a memorandum that expire when he leaves office and don't cover health benefits which DOMA prevents. A law Obama is supposedy against but cheerleaded in a DOJ brief. And the whole announcement is timed to save a GLBT DNC fundraiser that should still be boycotted. But I can rant about that on Queerty.

I continue to hear that DP benefits for County employees will be brought up in the Fall. Although I worry with the severe budget cuts we will get a lot of " we can't afford that now". The votes are on our side are pretty solid though. The hearings will be very heated, as they always are when the horrible gays with our "radical homosexual agenda" actually push to be treated fairly in the public sphere in this town

[monsoon]

.....

I continue to hear that DP benefits for County employees will be brought up in the Fall. Although I worry with the severe budget cuts we will get a lot of " we can't afford that now". The votes are on our side are pretty solid though. ....

This one would be interesting if it is true because they would have to quantify how much it would save. My guess is that it isn't costing them a measurable amount of money when we are talking about the size of the county budget. While the right wingers haven't shown they are particularly politically astute these days, they might not want to waste the political capital on this item at all, especially if we are talking about a small amount. I think there are bigger battles they want to fight in this county rather than "beating up on the queers".

Gay baiting works on the national level, because it always comes from House representatives elected from very safe republican districts which by their nature also are mostly some of the most ignorant people in the USA. It's not so clear this will work as well in Mecklenburg county. I realize we have people like Bill James, but while he does rail against Gays and Lesbians, he gets re-elected because he looks out for the people in his district and this really isn't one of their buttons. It's the difference between being a bigot and representing an area of bigots. Opps, but there I go again, assuming there might be some common sense at work here. Maybe there will be a fight.