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Seattle Hempfest Aug 19-20


Charlotteman

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I'm certainly sad to hear of your friends' wrecked lives. That is a sad thing for any of us to experience, to lose a friend that way.

But if those two friends hadn't gotten on drugs, they would have probably killed themselves with booze. There are people who can't handle ANY substance, and they will take any of them to dangerous levels.

Most of us enjoy substances now and then, to enhance a social gathering, or before a concert etc. But the two people you spoke of were obviously "self medicating" with drugs. i.e. they were in such emotional and psychological pain, they took stuff to forget everything.

People don't become drug addicts by choice:) It happens over a period of time, and is almost always based on existing psychological issues, PTSD for instance. Some people are in such inner turmoil, that even heroin is better than facing their lives.

Is prison what these people need?????

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A lot of people make the argument that POT or alcohol is a "gateway" drug. From my days in college I would have to agree. At first, it was alcohol, then it was weed, then came along LSD, and then in the backrooms of the parties would be coke.

I've never bought that the "gateway drug" argument has anything to do with pot specifically, but rather that it is an effect of prohibition. Pot is a "gateway" to harder drugs simply because the means of obtaining it are similar to those of obtaining other illegal substances. Most people who buy/use pot have no desire to try anything harder, but those that do have that desire become comfortable with the black market through experimenting with pot. If tobacco or alcohol were banned, I'm sure they would similarly become "gateway drugs."

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Is prison what these people need?????

No, prison is not what these people need. However, if they step over and start distributing that does bring up other issues. What these people need are interventions, and sadly most college kids won't do that for other students(i didn't say all, there are some who care enough to intervene). Sadly, there are parents who somehow can be completely oblivious to what there kids are going thru until it's too late.

Another example is a gentleman who was on trial here in Winston-Salem, he was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol and driving under a revoked license. He was caught while driving in reverse on a off ramp to a local highway. I was selected to be a member of the jury for his trial. We weren't made privy to all of his driving record or other charges pending against him when we were presented the case. Afterwards, the judge came to talk to us in the jury room. He also had multiple drug charges against him not to mention a driving record with failed DUI charges all the way back to 1984. His parents were paying for a lawyer to get him out each and every time, except this time they couldn't blow a big enough hole in the prosection's case. He was sent to prison for 2 years with 2 years probation and the successful completion of a D.A.R.T. program. While this may seem leniant, he hadn't yet hurt anyone but himself. But if had proceeded up that onramp that night and got on the highway travelling the wrong direction, we could have been looking at minimum a vehicular manslaughter case.

I guess what I'm saying here now is that we need to keep our eyes open for the warning signs to make sure people don't fall into the traps of legal or illegal substances and ruin their lives. We need to try to point them to help if we can. (sorry, didn't mean to get so winded on this topic!)

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Substance dependence and abuse is basically a symptom of a sick society.

Lots and lots and lots of people are unhappy. Capitalist culture can only go so far....for all those left out, life can be a real bummer. And course people who have been abused, dejected, pushed aside..sometimes the psychological pain gets to the point that ANYTHING is "okay" to blunt their pain.

Helping people is great. I used to work in a Seattle facility that cared for lots of addicts and mentally ill persons. But you can only help people so much.

We should also be ascertaining why our culture is so dysfunctional and tenous, in such a shape that millions of people are pushed to the point of self obliberation........

I can't think of a sicker society than that of the Soviet Union (USSR) 1917-1990. So dysfunctional that it became essentially a nation of vodka addicts.

I would think progressive, humanitarian nations that put the individual first, would have much less substance abuse and dependence.

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Pot being a gateway drug is a lame excuse against it. It's one of the easiest drugs to get so obviously it would be the first a person would try. I know plenty of people who have smoked pot and never done any other drug. It's like saying a Happy Meal is a gateway to being a fatass and then banning McDonalds.

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A lot of people make the argument that POT or alcohol is a "gateway" drug. From my days in college I would have to agree. At first, it was alcohol, then it was weed, then came along LSD, and then in the backrooms of the parties would be coke. I'm sure more was around, and I took part in all but the last. This was college and the ones I have kept up with are not drug addicts now and we are all contributing members of society. However, I have been told about 2 people who used to be at the parties, one who eventually got busted on possesion with intent to sell and the other who eventually partied 'til he killed himself with an overdose. Those are 2 lives wasted by drugs.

I also watched in the hospital once when my uncle was near death as they force fed him beer to keep him from d-t'ing. The hospital kept a 6 pack next to his bed. He had been an alcoholic since he came back from the Korean War.

We can take anything to extreme, legal or illegal. But as far as the thread and regardless of my past experience, I think marijuana should be legal. I feel there would be more control over the substance and it's quality if it was legalized. While it's illegal, there can be many additives which can make pot a much more dangerous substance, just like moonshine back in prohibition.

first of all, the gateway drug argument is something the government created to make people think that marijuana is bad. if you really want to talk about gateway drugs, alcohol and cigarettes would be the real gateways, but they're legal, so they can't say that. people who want to try other drugs will regardless of gateway status and people who don't will not. it's not that they tried something and it led to something else, it's that they really wanted to try that other drug. it's call experimentation. part of our brain is curiosity. are we to just sit back and assume we're better off not knowing? if that was the case, we'd never have pharmaceuticals.

as for marijuana having "additives", that's a bunch of baloney as well. the only pot that has additives is that of people who wish to smoke laced pot. the stuff that most people buy is just plain old regular pot. the same stuff that was available in the 60's and 70's. it's no stronger or weaker.

the drugs to watch out for are the designer drugs... like ecstasy. those can possibly be worse depending on your source, but pot is pot.

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as for marijuana having "additives", that's a bunch of baloney as well. the only pot that has additives is that of people who wish to smoke laced pot. the stuff that most people buy is just plain old regular pot. the same stuff that was available in the 60's and 70's. it's no stronger or weaker.

the drugs to watch out for are the designer drugs... like ecstasy. those can possibly be worse depending on your source, but pot is pot.

While most "pot" is just "pot", since it's not legalized and not controlled how can one be sure that there's nothing else mixed in? I know people mix other stuff in to give their "pot" special appeal, how can we know if these "ingredients" don't make the "pot" more harmful to the user either now or in health issues later in life. Now, if "pot" was legalized, we would have controls to not be as concerned over this.

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While most "pot" is just "pot", since it's not legalized and not controlled how can one be sure that there's nothing else mixed in? I know people mix other stuff in to give their "pot" special appeal, how can we know if these "ingredients" don't make the "pot" more harmful to the user either now or in health issues later in life. Now, if "pot" was legalized, we would have controls to not be as concerned over this.

this is true... but lacing it with something adds to the cost. most people do not sell laced pot unless someone specifically wants it because of this. they generally lace it for themselves. so if you ask for pot, unless your dealer seems to be charging a lot more than normal, it's normal un-touched pot.

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I don't do any illegal drugs, but I do smoke cigarettes and I know that I'm damaging my body in the process. I'm hesitant to legalize drugs because I don't think a society with easy access to cocaine or heroine is a good society. On that same level, I don't think a society with easy access to Xanex and Vicdine or whatever is a good society either. We all choose our vices and our drugs. Some people like to smoke pot, which is okay with me I guess. Marijuana I guess is not that bad and I would be okay with legalizing it, but I'm not going to attend a big party or go crazy just so the government will make it legal.

Also, does Atlanta still have Pot Fest at Piedmont Park? Just curious, I haven't heard about that in years.

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I don't think a society with easy access to cocaine or heroine is a good society. On that same level, I don't think a society with easy access to Xanex and Vicdine or whatever is a good society either.

a free society is a good society. having access to cocaine or heroin does not equate to a society full of junkies and addicts.

people in amsterdam are less likely to smoke pot than people in the US.

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a free society is a good society. having access to cocaine or heroin does not equate to a society full of junkies and addicts.

people in amsterdam are less likely to smoke pot than people in the US.

We wouldn't have these embarassingly high incarceration rates here in the US if it wasn't for the drug war..

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a free society is a good society. having access to cocaine or heroin does not equate to a society full of junkies and addicts.

people in amsterdam are less likely to smoke pot than people in the US.

I'm not really at war with the pot smokers of America or anything. If you want to smoke it that's fine with me. Really though, it's not like it's a major offense as it stands now---a misdemeanor with a fine and your clear as long as you don't have it stockpiled. And no I don't really think that marijuana is a gateway drug or any of that. And the drug policy in this country sucks.

But as far as heroine and coke, sure there are a few people who can handle it, but most cannot. Perhaps the people who are for legalizing coke, heroine, et al, should pay a visit to someone who has had their entire family destroyed by their parents' inability to regulate their dependency---normal everday people who blew their entire paychecks on a high that left you so low after you crashed. Normal everyday people who stole from their own parents, who stole from those around them, and who stole any sense of normalcy from their own kids in the process of financing their own habit. I know it up close and personal. How would legalized cocaine have made that any different? Hey, I guess they could have bought their coke straight from Phillip Morris or something if it was legal. :blink:

Again, though, with all of the problems facing this world today---misguided policies from the inept Bush administration, human rights violations all over the globe, global warming, terrorist plots, and a culture that is slipping closer and closer to complete apathy, well, those are the problems the world should be focused on right now.

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I'm not really at war with the pot smokers of America or anything. If you want to smoke it that's fine with me. Really though, it's not like it's a major offense as it stands now---a misdemeanor with a fine and your clear as long as you don't have it stockpiled. And no I don't really think that marijuana is a gateway drug or any of that. And the drug policy in this country sucks.

But as far as heroine and coke, sure there are a few people who can handle it, but most cannot. Perhaps the people who are for legalizing coke, heroine, et al, should pay a visit to someone who has had their entire family destroyed by their parents' inability to regulate their dependency---normal everday people who blew their entire paychecks on a high that left you so low after you crashed. Normal everyday people who stole from their own parents, who stole from those around them, and who stole any sense of normalcy from their own kids in the process of financing their own habit. I know it up close and personal. How would legalized cocaine have made that any different? Hey, I guess they could have bought their coke straight from Phillip Morris or something if it was legal. :blink:

Again, though, with all of the problems facing this world today---misguided policies from the inept Bush administration, human rights violations all over the globe, global warming, terrorist plots, and a culture that is slipping closer and closer to complete apathy, well, those are the problems the world should be focused on right now.

how about people who's lives were ruined by their parents alcoholism? is that any different just because alcohol is legal?

coke is far less harmful than heroin. heroin is actually the only one i really have an issue with. but the way i look at it is the darwin effect... let people kill themselves.

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heroin is actually the only one i really have an issue with. but the way i look at it is the darwin effect... let people kill themselves.

Exactly. It's no different than an obese person continuing to eat fat and sugar, though we have yet to criminalize donuts. Both will end up killing themselves, so why should one be legal and one be illegal. Make it legal for those wise enough to use it reponsibly, if that's possible with heroin (it is with pot).

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Exactly. It's no different than an obese person continuing to eat fat and sugar, though we have yet to criminalize donuts. Both will end up killing themselves, so why should one be legal and one be illegal. Make it legal for those wise enough to use it reponsibly, if that's possible with heroin (it is with pot).

luckily, most people on heroin can't do much other than hurt themselves... but coke is possible to use responsibly.

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how about people who's lives were ruined by their parents alcoholism? is that any different just because alcohol is legal?

coke is far less harmful than heroin. heroin is actually the only one i really have an issue with. but the way i look at it is the darwin effect... let people kill themselves.

No difference whatsoever between an alcoholic and a drug addict. And to be fair, there is no difference between a pill-popping hydrocodone addict and a heroine addict.

Recchia, in all honesty, a fatty addicted to donuts is a little different from someone addicted to hard drugs. I don't think too many people are robbing liquor stores and writing fraudulent checks to support their donut habit, but this is America and I'm sure that it's happened before. :D

As I said, I'm not opposed to legalizing pot, I'm just indifferent to it. But when it comes to the harder drugs, I do think a distinction should be made.

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No difference whatsoever between an alcoholic and a drug addict. And to be fair, there is no difference between a pill-popping hydrocodone addict and a heroine addict.

Recchia, in all honesty, a fatty addicted to donuts is a little different from someone addicted to hard drugs. I don't think too many people are robbing liquor stores and writing fraudulent checks to support their donut habit, but this is America and I'm sure that it's happened before. :D

As I said, I'm not opposed to legalizing pot, I'm just indifferent to it. But when it comes to the harder drugs, I do think a distinction should be made.

legalization, regulation, taxation, and education are the answer.

health care occassionally covers cigarette addiction treatment... does it currently cover treatment for illegal drug addicts? if not, i see that coming along with it as well... it's not as easy to receive treatment if you're addicted to illegal drugs as it is if you're addicted to cigarettes or alcohol. the reason is because drug addicts are looked at as junkies and scum, while alcoholics and smokers are just hooked on something legal.

people can be addicted to food and it can cause severe problems. it doesn't cause crime because food is legal and cheap. drugs are expensive because they're illegal. people rob others to support their drug habit because the drugs are not cheap. if they were legalized, they'd be a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to come by. the crime would drop... along with turf wars.

the problems you say are related to drug addicts also happen to alcoholics who will rob liquor stores for the booze or rob their friends and family for money to buy booze... or run up a huge tab at their local bar and never pay it off.

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You make a good argument for legalizing the harder drugs. But which drugs would you legalize? Or better question, what drugs would you propose stay illegal?

that's a tough question... legalize marijuana, cocaine, all the hallucinogens and psychedelics. that's definite.

questionable ones are heroin for the sheer potency of it, mdma (ecstasy), and meth. of course if these were legalized, they'd be regulated and you would know what you're getting. with those, you aren't always positive what you get (at least as far as the synthetics are concerned).

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While I believe that decriminalization of Marijuana, is an OK goal, what I will NOT agree with is that Marijuana doesn't cause harm. I lost someone in a car accident to a driver who was high (who wasn't drinking), and there is no chance in hell you can convince me that marijuana is harmless...

I arge for legalization because it would allow tough regulation of he drug. Also it would open up a whole new tax revenue system for Marijuana producers. If Marijuana is legalized, the same system used with tobacco should applied to marijuana. The difference will be that Marijuana will have a 21 yr old age limit, instead of Tobacco's 18 yr old limit, and potentially taxes would be higher as well.

I have a few friends who smoke marijuana, and all they do is sit at home, and play World of Warcraft.

If you try to pry that person away from it, its like trying to give a 5 yr old her vaccination shots. Its virtually impossible without physically lifting the person up out of the chair and plopping them in the car to go do SOMETHING.

Yes marijuana should be legal, not because it would benefit the marijuana society (it won't) but because it would benefit the society as a whole, with the new tax revenue which could be put towards education, and science funding.

Screw those who want to smoke the stuff, I just want your money :D

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that's a tough question... legalize marijuana, cocaine, all the hallucinogens and psychedelics. that's definite.

questionable ones are heroin for the sheer potency of it, mdma (ecstasy), and meth. of course if these were legalized, they'd be regulated and you would know what you're getting. with those, you aren't always positive what you get (at least as far as the synthetics are concerned).

That would be a positive of having it legal---some form of regulation and you could tax it.

Recchia, I feel you man. After all, I am the Doughboy.

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While I believe that decriminalization of Marijuana, is an OK goal, what I will NOT agree with is that Marijuana doesn't cause harm. I lost someone in a car accident to a driver who was high (who wasn't drinking), and there is no chance in hell you can convince me that marijuana is harmless...

I arge for legalization because it would allow tough regulation of he drug. Also it would open up a whole new tax revenue system for Marijuana producers. If Marijuana is legalized, the same system used with tobacco should applied to marijuana. The difference will be that Marijuana will have a 21 yr old age limit, instead of Tobacco's 18 yr old limit, and potentially taxes would be higher as well.

I have a few friends who smoke marijuana, and all they do is sit at home, and play World of Warcraft.

If you try to pry that person away from it, its like trying to give a 5 yr old her vaccination shots. Its virtually impossible without physically lifting the person up out of the chair and plopping them in the car to go do SOMETHING.

Yes marijuana should be legal, not because it would benefit the marijuana society (it won't) but because it would benefit the society as a whole, with the new tax revenue which could be put towards education, and science funding.

Screw those who want to smoke the stuff, I just want your money :D

compare the numbers of accidents while the driver was high versus the number while the driver was drunk. the difference is astounding... most people who regularly smoke pot know better than to get behind the wheel. the same goes for the people who are very politically active regarding legalization.

but you are right, anything that intoxicates you can be dangerous, but it can also be used in a completely safe manner, which is the norm with marijuana.

marijuana should be put in the same category as alcohol. and i don't appreciate you stereotyping all marijuana users as lazy video game players who don't want to do anything. in fact, that's often not the case. i used to smoke before i did my homework as it helped me concentrate. i would smoke before doing some other stuff just to calm my senses and keep me going. so no, "potheads" are not the stereotypical lazy group that the government would like you to think.

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marijuana should be put in the same category as alcohol. and i don't appreciate you stereotyping all marijuana users as lazy video game players who don't want to do anything. in fact, that's often not the case. i used to smoke before i did my homework as it helped me concentrate. i would smoke before doing some other stuff just to calm my senses and keep me going. so no, "potheads" are not the stereotypical lazy group that the government would like you to think.

Exactly, nobody should be getting stoned and then driving.

And no pothead are not all lazy, I know a friend whos a mechanical engineer and he smoked up before every test he took in school, only to graduate with a 3.5 and now hes making assloads of money.

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that's a tough question... legalize marijuana, cocaine, all the hallucinogens and psychedelics. that's definite.

questionable ones are heroin for the sheer potency of it, mdma (ecstasy), and meth. of course if these were legalized, they'd be regulated and you would know what you're getting. with those, you aren't always positive what you get (at least as far as the synthetics are concerned).

Heh... crystal meth and heroin are the only ones which i'm not 100% in favor of legalization. MDMA can be good for therapuetic purposes.

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