Seattle Hempfest Aug 19-20

[runawayjim]

Heh... crystal meth and heroin are the only ones which i'm not 100% in favor of legalization. MDMA can be good for therapuetic purposes.

a meth or heroin addict will tell you teh same things about those.

[monsoon]

I think you have to separate out the difference between substances that are very harmful even in small quantities vs those that are not, and you also have to understand the reasons why people become addicted to substances. It is a very complicated subject and blanket statements should not be made about any of these issues.

For example it is a mistake to lump all of the substances mentioned above into the same category because the government has decided to make them illegal. There is a light years difference in what smoking pot does to your body versus shooting up heroin or smoking crack. The former has not been shown medically to become an addictive substance while heroin, crack, crystal meth, etc make substantial changes to the body chemistry that cause addiction. Crack is almost immediately addictive and should be illegal.

People's lives have been destroyed by heroin, crack, cocaine, etc. In comparison I have never ever seen anyone affected in this manner by pot and I have been around long enough to have experienced the 70s when it was quite common for people of all walks of life to smoke pot. Some of the younger teachers in my high school, for example would go and smoke pot with the students. (imagine that today. lol) However the social conservatism that came to grip this country starting in the 80s put an end to that. Today there is such a stigma to smoking pot today that most of the people you run into that do, are those who anti-social anyway and smoking pot is one way to rebel. Pot did not make them that way.

There are people who tend to become addicted to substances for a number of reasons. Alcoholism is one of the biggest destructive addictions in our society, but anyone in recovery will tell you that it wasn't the alcohol they were addicted to, but rather they are addicted to effects that alcohol produces. Most people can drink booze and not have any problems with it, but for those who are subject to addictions, it can be a big big problem as alcohol taken in excess destroys the body. Does that mean it should be illegal? Well, that has already been tried and prohibition actually made things worse.

I don't see any harm in legalizing pot. It certainly didn't destroy society in the 70s and it wouldn't do it now. I don't think however that it will happen at the federal level anytime soon.

[somad]

a meth or heroin addict will tell you teh same things about those.

if you're implying what I think you are... I'd just like to let you know i've never used MDMA and have no intention to ever do it.

[runawayjim]

if you're implying what I think you are... I'd just like to let you know i've never used MDMA and have no intention to ever do it.

whoa... not implying anything... just stating an obvious reaction to what you said about it.

in response to monsoon...

i've done a little studying of drugs, mostly out of curiosity. i've never used anything but pot (and alcohol and cigarettes, but we're talking illegal stuff here).

cocaine, the powder, is not as potent as crack and they're basically different drugs (although made from the same stuff). cocaine is not very physically addictive, but it can be quite psychologically (much like alcohol, which is also somewhat physically addictive, hence the hangover, which is part withdrawl). while i've never used it, i know many people who have and do on a recreational basis. it's not something i'd try (mainly because my nose is sensitive and quite prone to bleeding when it's dry, but also because i don't think i'd enjoy it knowing my personality type). they don't have problems and they are hardly addicted, much like with pot.

heroin is almost instantly addictive. once you start, it's not easy to stop. that's the main reason i'd have an issue legalizing it. the designer drugs, like ecstasy, are similar and can be extremely dangerous. meth, as well, is also not predictable and can be very dangerous. those are the 3 types of drugs i'd think twice about legalizing, but pot and cocaine and the psychedelics are relatively benign (at least when compared to the ones i just mentioned).

acid can have long term effects, but it doesn't make a person insane like it once was believed. mushrooms and the other natural hallucinogens (peyote and mescaline) don't have any real long term effects (along with salvia (aka salvia divinorum or diviner's sage), which, as far as i know, is still legal, although it's been under attack).

my opinion is (and this is for where i side with all the small government people) that the government should let people do the drugs they want, but regulate them, much like alcohol and cigarettes... although the legal age should be 18. package stores (aka liquor stores for all you non-new englanders) would also sell the stuff. if people want to screw up their lives, let them. i don't see any reason why the studies that have shown that with legalized pot in amsterdam making for people using it more responsibly and having less of an interest in it in general wouldn't fall over to the other drugs as well. i don't care how legal any of those other drugs are. i know what they can do and i wouldn't even think about trying most of them (mushrooms are a different story). i enjoy my pot and i will continue to regardless of what the government says. i'm also not stupid about it...

[Charlotteman]

I think many posters here are completely missing the point. "legalize MJ, but keep heroin illegal. or Legalize pot, but keep crack illegal" etc.

This is (supposedly) a free country, and I don't see why ANY substances are up for grabs for the govt. to make "illegal".

If you believe MJ should be legalized because "it's not that harmful" then you've missed the point. The govt shouldn't have the right to protect me from myself under any circumstances!!

There are already laws in place to charge people with driving while intoxicated on substances. That is a totally different argument.

People destroy their lives in lots of different ways. Heart disease is the number 1 killer in the States today. If we really want to save lives, shouldn't the govt. make red meat, high fat foods, etc illegal? If ya wanna "protect the people from themselves" then let's start there.

I think I read once that approx. 5,000 people die in the States each year from cocaine related issues. But hundreds of thousands die from alcoholism and heart disease.

PUH-LEEZE give me a break, and legalize it all. I'm a big boy. I know what I need. While we're at it, legalize Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, Vicodin, Percocet, Morphine, Demerol. Legal or not, people will do whatever substances they want.

When substances are illegal, their price is artifically high. That's why desperate drug addicts break into people's homes to get money for drugs. When was the last time you heard of an alcoholic break into a house, for booze money? You wanna know why that is? Because a bottle of vodka is pretty much at it's true price $7.50 for a cheap bottle I suppose(?)

Whereas cocaine could be just as reasonably priced, it's price is out of this world because all the Drug War b.s. keeping the price up!

Are we ever going to realize that adults are adults. Let adults be adults. Let me make up my own mind. I don't need Big Brother (i.e. a bunch of corrupt politicians) telling me what's best for me.

[Snowguy716]

No difference whatsoever between an alcoholic and a drug addict. And to be fair, there is no difference between a pill-popping hydrocodone addict and a heroine addict.

Recchia, in all honesty, a fatty addicted to donuts is a little different from someone addicted to hard drugs. I don't think too many people are robbing liquor stores and writing fraudulent checks to support their donut habit, but this is America and I'm sure that it's happened before.

As I said, I'm not opposed to legalizing pot, I'm just indifferent to it. But when it comes to the harder drugs, I do think a distinction should be made.

If you could get your fix day after day for about $2... you'd probably see a lot less crime associated with drug use. People who do drugs are gonna do them no matter what. If you make them legal and lower the price, the crime associated with it will dry up.

But no no no... let's keep fighting the drug war and throwing 18 year olds in jail for decades for dealing some pot. That's right.. spank the kid until it bleeds because he stole a cookie from the cookie jar... American justice... yeah, right.

[waccamatt]

I think many posters here are completely missing the point. "legalize MJ, but keep heroin illegal. or Legalize pot, but keep crack illegal" etc.

This is (supposedly) a free country, and I don't see why ANY substances are up for grabs for the govt. to make "illegal".

If you believe MJ should be legalized because "it's not that harmful" then you've missed the point. The govt shouldn't have the right to protect me from myself under any circumstances!!

There are already laws in place to charge people with driving while intoxicated on substances. That is a totally different argument.

People destroy their lives in lots of different ways. Heart disease is the number 1 killer in the States today. If we really want to save lives, shouldn't the govt. make red meat, high fat foods, etc illegal? If ya wanna "protect the people from themselves" then let's start there.

I think I read once that approx. 5,000 people die in the States each year from cocaine related issues. But hundreds of thousands die from alcoholism and heart disease.

PUH-LEEZE give me a break, and legalize it all. I'm a big boy. I know what I need. While we're at it, legalize Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, Vicodin, Percocet, Morphine, Demerol. Legal or not, people will do whatever substances they want.

When substances are illegal, their price is artifically high. That's why desperate drug addicts break into people's homes to get money for drugs. When was the last time you heard of an alcoholic break into a house, for booze money? You wanna know why that is? Because a bottle of vodka is pretty much at it's true price $7.50 for a cheap bottle I suppose(?)

Whereas cocaine could be just as reasonably priced, it's price is out of this world because all the Drug War b.s. keeping the price up!

Are we ever going to realize that adults are adults. Let adults be adults. Let me make up my own mind. I don't need Big Brother (i.e. a bunch of corrupt politicians) telling me what's best for me.

I so totally agree with C-man. Legalizing drugs will not only be a great tax revenue source, it will probably cut crime in half in this country.

[somad]

I so totally agree with C-man. Legalizing drugs will not only be a great tax revenue source, it will probably cut crime in half in this country.

More than that.... We don't have twice the incarceration rate of the rest of the world...

[Pillsbury]

Exactly, nobody should be getting stoned and then driving.

And no pothead are not all lazy, I know a friend whos a mechanical engineer and he smoked up before every test he took in school, only to graduate with a 3.5 and now hes making assloads of money.

Very true. You'd be suprised (or probably not actually) of the number of attorneys and doctors who smoke pot on a regular basis.

[Miesian Corners]

It's reefer madness!

I do not understand why pot is illegal. As a worker in the transportaion industry, I get drug tested (randomly). What makes no sense is that I could show up to work drunk, not get tested that day, and ultimately crash a plane. I could smoke a joint on the first day of a two week vacation, come back to work completely clean and sober, get a drug test and get fired. Someone please tell me the logic in that.

[runawayjim]

It's reefer madness!

I do not understand why pot is illegal. As a worker in the transportaion industry, I get drug tested (randomly). What makes no sense is that I could show up to work drunk, not get tested that day, and ultimately crash a plane. I could smoke a joint on the first day of a two week vacation, come back to work completely clean and sober, get a drug test and get fired. Someone please tell me the logic in that.

there is no logic in that... which is why i will never work for a company that does random drug testing (of course working in a college, i don't have to worry about that... and i have a steady supply of pot if i ever couldn't find it ). but seriously, i won't work for a place like that out of principle. i should be able to enjoy myself in my spare time as i please as long as i don't show up to work drunk or high.

[BrasilnSC]

Pot is the least harmful drug of all. Yet, people are getting thrown in jail and fined for it. How many people have ever committed a crime while high, none that I know (hello, paranoia). And while drunk, countless. So why is drinking legal and smoking pot not. Makes no sense.

As far as pot being a gateway drug, I'm more willing to try other drugs, be promiscuous, or do something dangerous if I'm completely drunk.

And weighing in on the "pot smokers are lazy" comment. Everytime my roomate and I smoke (which is almost everyday), we end up cleaning the house, going to Lowe's or Target, or doing some home improvement. Occasionally we sit and watch TV, who doesn't.

Legalize it, and let the suffering tobacco farmers have a new cash crop.

As far as other drugs are concerned, I've tried a few. I could easily get them now, but choose not to and wouldn't even if they were legal.

I wanna go to hemp fest, is there one in the southeast anywhere

[Charlotteman]

Pot smokers are generally a lazy lot?? and unmotivated?

When I was in college I smoked weed every single day and night. I went for two junior degrees at once. My GPA for one was 3.94 and the other 3.62.

I can just imagine what a drunk's GPA would have been for my two degrees!

[Pillsbury]

^ I should have smoked more pot in college!

[Miesian Corners]

^I wish I was high right now!

[cinco]

FREE THE WEED. the devils lettuce is NOwhere near as dangerous as the alcohol, or cigarettes for that matter... or partially hydrogenated oils...

don't outlaw plants.

BTW, for some people pot is a form of stimulant.

[FromCityToRural]

I absolutely hate weed and would have just as little respect or regard for potsmokers if it became legal. So I suppose in that way I can say I'm ambivalent about its legality.

[runawayjim]

I absolutely hate weed and would have just as little respect or regard for potsmokers if it became legal. So I suppose in that way I can say I'm ambivalent about its legality.

what do you think about people who drink alcohol?

[FromCityToRural]

They're my best buddies (and I'd have to include myself in that as well. Matter of fact I'm sitting here with a beer right now...). The difference is I haven't had a bad experience with a drinker like I've had with pot smokers (and one in particular). Like I said earlier, I don't know whether or not my feelings have any basis in logic (although it makes sense to me), but I do know that it is very much an emotion thing for me.

Therefore, a person could give me arguments until they are blue in the face, they will not change my mind. Period. Normally I am willing to listen to reason and be open to letting facts modify my outlook, but I can guarantee that will not happen with this stuff.

Now, you want to make it legal, whatever. That doesn't bother me as much. As I see it, the fact that it's illegal doesn't stop anybody who wants to smoke it, so there wouldn't really be a difference, anyway.

[runawayjim]

They're my best buddies (and I'd have to include myself in that as well. Matter of fact I'm sitting here with a beer right now...). The difference is I haven't had a bad experience with a drinker like I've had with pot smokers (and one in particular). Like I said earlier, I don't know whether or not my feelings have any basis in logic (although it makes sense to me), but I do know that it is very much an emotion thing for me.

Therefore, a person could give me arguments until they are blue in the face, they will not change my mind. Period. Normally I am willing to listen to reason and be open to letting facts modify my outlook, but I can guarantee that will not happen with this stuff.

Now, you want to make it legal, whatever. That doesn't bother me as much. As I see it, the fact that it's illegal doesn't stop anybody who wants to smoke it, so there wouldn't really be a difference, anyway.

drunks get violent. potheads fall asleep. there's the biggest difference.

i have yet to meet someone who was high that i have had a problem with (aside from them coming to work high). as for drunks, well... i could list a million issues.

but it goes along with responsibility. use it responsible and you don't cause problems for either yourself or others.

[Randy@Tacoma]

^I wish I was high right now!

I am high right now~~!!! :-) Anywho...

From city to rural... I dont mean to sound mean when saying this, but I like this saying from Miesian:

"A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward.-Franklin Delano Roosevelt"

This is you. See, the problem is that you havent gotten over your past issues with the "potential soulmate." Legalizing marijuana isnt going to mean that everyone around you will begin smoking weed... That just isnt the case. Therefore, this political issue wouldnt affect you in the slightest. You just need to get over issues. See a counselor!

And as for alcohol... I could care less if I ever have a beer, or a Bailey's again. I like getting together with friends in the agarage or basement and taking (or toking) some hard hits of that pretty rainbow colored bong! If you dont like that, thats fine with me. But dont take my freedom away from me. You wouldnt like it if someone came and took that beer away and through you in a jail cell and gave you a hefty fine and a criminal record. Its fine that you drink your beer in the privacy of your home just like its fine that I smoke a blunt in the privacy of my home. It affects no one but us! Thats the way it should be!

[Jerseyman4]

I don't see any harm in legalizing pot. It certainly didn't destroy society in the 70s and it wouldn't do it now. I don't think however that it will happen at the federal level anytime soon.

Its interesting how a couple western states have almost voted 50% to bring legalization of Marijuana in the past few years. With pot, I dont agree with the Rockefeller Laws because they are too harsh but with the other drugs, a little jail time/rehab/etc should be imposed in most cases to educate and inform people of the dangers they are putting themselves into.

I would not have a problem if pot was legalized but i would hope American society wouldnt go overboard of getting high everyday but practice moderation.

[Miesian Corners]

I would not have a problem if pot was legalized but i would hope American society wouldnt go overboard of getting high everyday but practice moderation.

Kinda like we do with alcohol?

[suburban george3]

I would not have a problem if pot was legalized but i would hope American society wouldnt go overboard of getting high everyday but practice moderation.

Hmmm, here in the land of 4,000 sq ft McMansions, gas-guzzling SUV's, wasteful energy consumption, and not to mention the largest waistlines in the world; how could one think Americans could ever do anything in moderation?

[runawayjim]

Hmmm, here in the land of 4,000 sq ft McMansions, gas-guzzling SUV's, wasteful energy consumption, and not to mention the largest waistlines in the world; how could one think Americans could ever do anything in moderation?

it's called having faith in americans. if we can't drink in moderation, why is alcohol legal? if pot is illegal, then so should alcohol and cigarettes.