General Tucson Thread

[convulso]

but...but...i thought that diamond had it all!

wait...the current casino was built in 2001? and it's being demolished so a parking lot can go there? is wal-mart a part of this?

"...now tribes are creating themselves as destination resorts..." - aside from this being a moronic thing to say (tribes 'creating themselves?' the whole self image of the tribe is that of a tourist attraction?), does anyone foresee that this will be true? are protected-lands casinos in AZ (or anywhere else) ever going to be seen as destinations for out-of-towners? since only one casino usually occupies a large space in these instances, i don't see it - i don't care how elaborate that casino is. i think the biggest regional draw is - and will continue to be - the concerts and similar events.

but it's easy for me to go off on casinos. the 'south park' episode on indian casino gambling, along with the DVD commentary, pretty much sums up my feelings about it. i don't think i'd pay to see the smiths reunite if i had to go to a rez casino to do it.

Edited March 9, 2007 by convulso

[colin]

Yeah, I've never been to either casino to see a show. The stuff that I've actually wanted to see there (Calexico played there once) didn't seem worth it. I went to the Yaqui one once and stayed for about 5 minutes but was then told that I had gone to the older one. I get frustrated with casinos here because they won't give you free alcohol, which is my sole motivation for going in the first place. I'm definitely not a gambler though.

But, anyway, yeah it sucks that they're going to completely level the old facility. I guess that whole re-use concept hasn't really penetrated the boundaries of the res. It's very competitive, there's lots of money to be had, and, as of now, the Yaquis are killing them because of their better facility. How long until the Yaquis start planning the same thing but with a 100,000-seat arena, petting zoo for the kids and an escalator to the moon?

[MJLO]

Y r there so many casinos in AZ? PHX has a casino for every neighborhood i swear

[colin]

D-M cuts noise from flights over Tucson

I can tell you that these things are crazy noisy. The big B-52s and fighter jets that fly over make you stop whatever you're doing if you're outside. When I was at UA they would come overhead about 4x a day. I just got used to them.

It's quite a step that the air force is actually changing these flight paths to accommodate the community. Usually they're so resistant toward efforts to get them to do so.

[colin]

Group to hold 3 meetings on transportation projects

Check out the second meeting place: "March 23, 4:30 to 6 p.m. at the Foothills Mall food court"

Not much of this has changed since the RTA was voted in, but there are some contentious projects within the city like the Grant and Broadway widenings.

[MJLO]

why are widenings contentious? Are the roads handling traffic at or above capacity? What should be done?

[colin]

Those widenings are contentious because they'd result in some neighborhood destruction. In the case of Grant, not much of it is really that attractive, so I don't see what they're trying to save. It also has to do with neighborhoods just not wanting more traffic anywhere near them. (t.s. guys)

All the RTA plans are definitely needed just to meet current demand. The only more proactive proposals have to do with the suburban areas on the southeast and southwest sides.

[convulso]

colin (and any other tucsonans, if there be any, ever, on here):

i was responding to your quote in another thread and got so far off track that i just copied the off-topic part and put it here - it boils down to being a long-winded question about what it's like to live in downtown tucson:

we aren't timid about living in a downtown area - we've lived in plenty of sketchy areas that other people seemed to think were crime zones. from what i can tell, most of the perception of crime in downtown is of the property type, which doesn't deter us. violence is everywhere, but i haven't sensed that downtown tucson is as violent, even late at night, as some places i've lived (and enjoyed). downtown's proximity to pockets where violent crime has been a problem is a little unsettling for some, though.

but as for just general seediness / hustlers / tweekers / thieves - well, i like for sketchy homeless guys to try to hustle us - it's actually something we have a lot of fun with every time we go into the heart of a big city. we ask them to elaborate on their stories (where did your car break down? we can walk to it!), and the fact that we aren't dying to get away from them confounds their expectations. there have been a few places where we've questioned our judgment in willfully tempting fate. i've had to get aggressive to the point of being physical in memphis and montgomery before, and we've had a couple of tense moments on the outskirts of new orleans. but oddly, nothing even close to that level of tension has happened to me in NYC, baltimore, atlanta, and the CA towns. i guess it's just the luck of the draw.

most street hustlers are not the sort of criminals that bother us in the least, and once you get set up in a neighborhood, they become...well, if not your friends, then your...acquaintances. i like a certain measure of seedy street life, and i know that tucson's downtown has a reputation for that. at any rate, we both developed a mentality a long time ago that you can only be so scared of other human beings, regardless of their circumstances. we just aren't gonna be afraid to engage in an activity as civic as walking down an urban street.

what makes us a little reluctant to live in downtown tucson - unless we stumble across something too good to pass up - is the lack of rewards in exchange for negotiating that seediness. in tucson, there's no grocery store, not much going on in the core late at night, not a lot of hope of working within walking distance of home (at least for the type of work we'd be doing), etc. the street life that is enjoyable if you have those amenities just becomes tiresome when you live amongst all of the grit but few of the perks.

since you live in the area, colin, you see firsthand what i'm only surmising. i'd be interested to hear your take on how real the threat level is (to seasoned city dwellers, not suburban pansies) versus the mere perception of that threat - a perception that seems a little overblown here in tucson.

Edited March 18, 2007 by convulso

[colin]

The food supply thing has been the most frustrating aspect for me. The prospect of the Trader Joe's across the street with Presidio Terrace got me excited but now it seems that it'll never happen.

But there are a lot of advantages at living Downtown. The biggest is the sheer convenience factor, and not just for Downtown stuff. I always get rides from friends because it's just on their way. And, even if I do have to drive, the good places are next to me so it's not very far (hence the aforementioned "bubble").

And it's not just walkability, but also bike-ability. Tucson was rated something like #5 in the country for bike-friendly cities, and Downtown is the center of the friendly territory. Basically if you can't walk it, then you can almost always bike it.

But then there's the Downtown stuff. First the bars: Tucson's entire bar scene is just a few blocks from you. Then the festivals: going to the Gem Show, Tucson Meet Yourself, the Chili Cook-Off, Club Crawl, Dia de los Muertos procession, the Folk Festival, the Saint Patrick's Day Parade, etc. is never a big ordeal and doesn't require planning because you just basically walk outside and you're there. Same goes for the TCC events: you never have to pay for parking there.

There are also quite a few good restaurants Downtown, most of which are open at least on the weekends if not most of the week.

Also, I have to mention the people. Downtown is generally liberal, politically- and socially-aware residents (I think every city is like that though). They're generally pretty friendly and almost always interesting. It's nice to have neighbors like that.

But, anyway, the fear that people living in the 'burbs have of the Central core is mostly unwarranted. There are bums, tweakers, crackheads, junkies, panhandlers, psychopaths, car break-ins, and general blight, but it's not limited to Tucson and it's not hard to deal with with a little common sense and general street smarts. If you live in Armory Park, you're going to encounter the resident homeless population and your car will probably be broken into at some point. Anything left outside (like on the porch) is also fair game. Other areas have similar problems, but I still think that El Presidio is the safest.

But, regardless, if you're looking for some sort of sanitized, Eisenhower-era Americana (which I know you aren't) where your kids don't have to encounter "bad people" and you don't have to pull the valuables out of your car, then you're not going to be happy living in the central part of town, because it's just not like that.

Hope that helps, but feel free to ask me anything else.

[convulso]

thanks so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. it helps, and confirms what i already suspected - that tucson's downtown is totally livable for someone like me, and that it's not the daily sh!tpit some (mostly those who never stray there) make it out to be.

the fear that people living in the 'burbs have of the Central core is mostly unwarranted. There are bums, tweakers, crackheads, junkies, panhandlers, psychopaths, car break-ins, and general blight, but it's not limited to Tucson and it's not hard to deal with with a little common sense and general street smarts.

[colin]

Embassy Suites adding Foothills location

How cool is this! Very nice hotel and it'll be right across the street from La Encantada Mall.

[colin]

Phoenix gets huge, new buildings and we get a senior living center:

HUD plans new senior complex in Midtown

I actually walked by this site this morning and wondered what they were doing with it, although someone told me it was to be some sort of TUSD Teen Pregnancy Center or something.

The site is on Broadway just east of Campbell (next to a Wienerschnitzel so the seniors can get all the corndogs and chili fries they want).

It's good that we're seeing some sort of in-fill, especially on the site of an old car dealership, and it's a good spot for seniors as it's also across the street from a Safeway, but they did have to level the whole thing.

[colin]

The Star ignored this for some reason, although I guess a Wal-Mart protest is no big thang anymore.

Neighbors protest new Wal Mart

The thing is that there's a Wal-Mart Supercenter only a couple of miles from there at Foothills Mall.

[convulso]

The thing is that there's a Wal-Mart Supercenter only a couple of miles from there at Foothills Mall.

[colin]

Fourth Avenue Street Fair. I've been a couple of times, but it's pretty lame: now about 30% corporate booths with another 60% overpriced garbage. There are a few (usually bad) bands playing, greasy fair food and awful beer. I actually didn't go to the last one but rode my bike through it to try to get somewhere else. Doing that you realize how much people just sort of stand around and stare.

But you're right: lots of ridiculous suburbanites in above-knee Dockers shorts and undersized caps pushing strollers and aimlessly wandering. They push out the homeless, wanna-be hippies and transients that normally hang out, so the "decent" people feel comfortable there. I don't know that they have numbers, but I'd imagine some actually do return so it's an argument for the whole deal.

When I'd go into Plush after work I'd always read the paper. The bars get crowded later and that's not really possible, but it is definitely a laid-back vibe.

[convulso]

When I'd go into Plush after work I'd always read the paper. The bars get crowded later and that's not really possible, but it is definitely a laid-back vibe.

[colin]

Or combine the iconic saguaro with baseless "Old West" idealology:

It should also wave, be lit up in bright neon, and be at least 100' tall. Effectively an Arizona version of "Big Tex".

But I think you're on the right track with the tweek thing. Maybe a huge 8 ball with a pipe as a bridge spanning I-10. The 8 ball could be a dome housing a Science Center/IMAX Theater and light up the Catalinas at night with laser shows.

Seriously some sort of UA gateway is actually a good idea. Not sure you've ever noticed the "Welcome to Tucson, Home of the University of Arizona" sign at the roundabout at Drachman and Oracle, but that's all we have that says "Welcome to Tucson" or "UA is Here". Not only do no tourists see that, but it's also right after an especially dingy stretch of crack motels and strip clubs only to steer you toward another dingy stretch of crack motels.

Edited April 4, 2007 by colin

[convulso]

Or combine the iconic saguaro with baseless "Old West" idealology:

It should also wave, be lit up in bright neon, and be at least 100' tall. Effectively an Arizona version of "Big Tex".

But I think you're on the right track with the tweek thing. Maybe a huge 8 ball with a pipe as a bridge spanning I-10. The 8 ball could be a dome housing a Science Center/IMAX Theater and light up the Catalinas at night with laser shows.

Seriously some sort of UA gateway is actually a good idea. Not sure you've ever noticed the "Welcome to Tucson, Home of the University of Arizona" sign at the roundabout at Drachman and Oracle, but that's all we have that says "Welcome to Tucson" or "UA is Here". Not only do no tourists see that, but it's also right after an especially dingy stretch of crack motels and strip clubs only to steer you toward another dingy stretch of crack motels.

Edited April 4, 2007 by convulso

[colin]

Reconstruction of Summerhaven approved

FYI, Summerhaven is the mountain village at the top of Mount Lemmon.

I was up there this past weekend, and new stuff (mostly houses) has gone up in only the past 3 months or so.

Sabino Canyon road to be rebuilt for tram

The tram at Sabino Canyon has been stunted since the big floods last summer that reduced the paved road to a negligible sliver only suited for foot traffic. I've always hated this tram, but it also helps to make Sabino a bigger tourist attraction.

[colin]

Upscale variety store coming to Main Gate Square near UA

I can't imagine what this place will look like, but they make it sound like a snobby Circle K.

It's kind of ironic that Main Gate is becoming Central Tucson's upscale shopping corridor and it's across the street from the university. Maybe a testament to a growing population of UA students who have lots of money.

[convulso]

there are plenty of great urban gas stations that wear many hats, depending on the weird needs of the neighborhood, but this doesn't sound need-based at all. $150 jewelry? whatever, dude.

[colin]

Not sure if I had opened a Benson-related thread (probably not):

Pulte halts plan for big complex in Benson

This was to be one of the largest developments in the area. Me thinks that their Red Rock Village on the far northwest side wasn't as successful as they had originally thought and so now they're becoming a little more timid.

My worry is that it's possible another developer will step in and build garbage. I mean, at least Pulte is somewhat more responsible.

[convulso]

^ yes! (for now) -

just a matter of time for that corridor, but i'm glad to see things go more slowly.

[colin]

At One With Nature: A westside master-planned community gets certified by the National Wildlife Federation

Sweetwater in the Foothills is at the western end of Sweetwater Drive where the paved portion curves into Camino del Oeste. Often you'll read the residents complaining about the sewage treatment plant across the river.

I went to a house party here a few years ago and it is a very cool community. All of the streets are narrow, gravel lanes, the houses are on large lots and surrounded by plenty of natural vegetation, and the ground hasn't been leveled.

[colin]

They came, they saw, they talked, they talked more, they complained, they left.

Downtown redo, water issue tackled at Town Hall

It's cool that they're at least trying, but did we really need to rent out the Loews Ventana Canyon for something like this?