Growth and migration vs NCs southern humility

[NcSc74]

I have been reading and posting here for a while and I see alot of growth in NC. My wife and I have talked about where we are going to settle down. We came up with either the Triad of Charlotte. Which made me think what will I come home too? Will I be looked at like I am a newcomer? Will all of the transplants make an even more mark on our cities character? Will high house prices drive me to settle back in Fayetteville where the housing stock is still cheap? I ask these questions on here because after reading tesitmonial after testimonial from transplants and all of the migration happening I am getting al little concerned. Is all of the growth to soon or let me put it this way...did anyone see this coming and maybe just maybe it is too late to improve infrastructure to handle this growth. What I mean is sprawl is about all NC will be from Charlotte to Raleigh down to Fayetteville.

While Raleigh racks up on the "best place to " is that having an opposite affect on inter-state migration. Are people down east or far west being shut out of these money making and job advancing places? Just some questions I have because I feel the NC I left in 1996 will not be the same one when I return in 2012-2015. I feel the big three are growing in to a SoCal type mega instead of a BoWash mega. Think about. Some heavy industry, warehouse distro, high tech, pharma, finance and some agriculture thrown in the mix. Moderate weather, nationally known universities and colleges and a skilled work force. The biggest similarity is the sprawl and freeways to expedite it.(NCs new interstates in the Piedmont 73/74, 485, 785, whatever the mess NCDOT wants to name the maze of freeways around Greensboro). Do I want to live in NC when I have lived this hell of sprawlville in Vegas. Observations from a true blue tar heel boy who wants to come home. Comments welcome.

[triadcat]

Have you been back since 1996?? If you haven't, you would probably come back to a slightly different NC because of it's fast growth. A lot has changed since 1996 in NC in every major metro.

I will say that the Triad has not had the growth that the Charlotte and Triangle have had, so it will be the most "preserved" out of the big 3 metros even though there is tons of sprawl in the Triad. The area along NC 70 between Burlington and Greensboro is growing and sprawling like a vine.

Fayetteville is growing and improving too, but not booming like Charlotte and Raleigh.

Good thing is that even though there is lots of sprawl, all downtowns are densifying and coming to life again in pretty much every city. I think it is a nationwide trend. Greensboro has apartments and condos being built and planned for DT. Even your old town of Fayetteville is developing and has planning for downtown. Burlington is sprawling, but Labcorp is building downtown and slowly bringing the DT core to life. I drove by there the other day and was surpised at how many people there were walking and driving in and around DT Burlington.

So, what I am saying is there is lots of continuing sprawl AND downtown revitalizations taking place all around NC.

[monsoon]

It's still hot and humid, but not as bad as a lot of the southern parts of the USA. While much of the country baked in the 100s this summer, we only broke 95 3-4 times here in Charlotte. You won't like it without an AC, but like this morning I have my windows open so its not that bad. If you want a break from the heat and humidity, both Charlotte and the Triad are only a 2 hour drive from the mountains which are 15-20 degrees cooler on any given day.

The Triangle, Triad and Charlotte do have their issues with sprawl, but they are a very long way from growing into each other, if ever. And all of the metros are working on alternative transit systems and doing the planning to slow down the effects of sprawl. Charlotte is currently building its first light rail line and already has a downtown electric trolley.

Your best bet is to come for a visit.

[Durhamite]

It's still hot and humid, but not as bad as a lot of the southern parts of the USA. While much of the country baked in the 100s this summer, we only broke 95 3-4 times here in Charlotte. You won't like it without an AC, but like this morning I have my windows open so its not that bad. If you want a break from the heat and humidity, both Charlotte and the Triad are only a 2 hour drive from the mountains which are 15-20 degrees cooler on any given day.

The Triangle, Triad and Charlotte do have their issues with sprawl, but they are a very long way from growing into each other, if ever. And all of the metros are working on alternative transit systems and doing the planning to slow down the effects of sprawl. Charlotte is currently building its first light rail line and already has a downtown electric trolley.

Your best bet is to come for a visit.

Did he mean humility or humidity? Metros response through me for a loop.

[monsoon]

Haha, it is humility, oh well... NVM.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Try humility on the Gulf Coast, Charlotte is not bad at all.

I lived on the Texas Gulf Coast for 12 years, and I can tell you the humility here is not bad at all.

[sax184]

I have been reading and posting here for a while and I see alot of growth in NC. My wife and I have talked about where we are going to settle down. We came up with either the Triad of Charlotte. Which made me think what will I come home too? Will I be looked at like I am a newcomer? Will all of the transplants make an even more mark on our cities character? Will high house prices drive me to settle back in Fayetteville where the housing stock is still cheap? I ask these questions on here because after reading tesitmonial after testimonial from transplants and all of the migration happening I am getting al little concerned. Is all of the growth to soon or let me put it this way...did anyone see this coming and maybe just maybe it is too late to improve infrastructure to handle this growth. What I mean is sprawl is about all NC will be from Charlotte to Raleigh down to Fayetteville.

While Raleigh racks up on the "best place to " is that having an opposite affect on inter-state migration. Are people down east or far west being shut out of these money making and job advancing places? Just some questions I have because I feel the NC I left in 1996 will not be the same one when I return in 2012-2015. I feel the big three are growing in to a SoCal type mega instead of a BoWash mega. Think about. Some heavy industry, warehouse distro, high tech, pharma, finance and some agriculture thrown in the mix. Moderate weather, nationally known universities and colleges and a skilled work force. The biggest similarity is the sprawl and freeways to expedite it.(NCs new interstates in the Piedmont 73/74, 485, 785, whatever the mess NCDOT wants to name the maze of freeways around Greensboro). Do I want to live in NC when I have lived this hell of sprawlville in Vegas. Observations from a true blue tar heel boy who wants to come home. Comments welcome.

What a terrific and interesting post capturing much of what we discuss on this board. Even framed as a series of questions, the key issue identification for the state above is excellent.

I think the portion I bolded above is the big question, and for the most part, we're turning into SoCal/Atlanta with subrban crap dendritus stretching all the way along I-85. Granted, as others have said, there are many downtowns (Raleigh, Asheville) that are really beginning to catch on, others on the verge (Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Chapel Hill) of doing a lot of good things, and the uber-boomtown, Charlotte.

In your broader question, down east and to a lesser extent, the rural West excepting Asheville and the mountain towns that are within Atlanta's weekender sphere, are being left behind and in some cases, decimated. So essentially, yes, NC is becoming the urban crescent, and everywhere else.

Within the urban crescent, I envision two NCs emerging. One is what you loathed in Vegas-- endless sprawl and poorly planned growth creating heavy traffic and over-burdened infrastructure in the suburban areas. The second NC is a small series of vibrant, true urban places that share many of the economic benefits and infrastructure challenges of the suburban communities that surround these small oases of decent, walkable living.

Charlotte's metro area will be a variation on this theme for the better. It will be more like Bos-Wash than the other NC metros because of its commitment to transit and directed land-use planning around stations. There will still be typical suburban crap all over Charlotte, because much of it is already there, but whereas downtown Raleigh will be a lone island in a sea of garbage, Charlotte will have an archipelago of livable places along its rail corridors.

[AuLukey]

Charlotte's metro area will be a variation on this theme for the better. It will be more like Bos-Wash than the other NC metros because of its commitment to transit and directed land-use planning around stations. There will still be typical suburban crap all over Charlotte, because much of it is already there, but whereas downtown Raleigh will be a lone island in a sea of garbage, Charlotte will have an archipelago of livable places along its rail corridors.

I agree, although I'm hoping that LRT becomes a more viable option for all five corridors eventually (as in, the next thirty years.) Charlotte is becoming more progressive and transit oriented. At least that is the vision, we'll have to wait a few years to see how it all really pans out. So far so good though with all the planned developments specifically designed to compliment the transit hubs and much less focus on the sprawl generator I-485.

Raleigh, to me has two diamonds in the rough, the business side to downtown, and the government side. Everything else in the triangle (mostly Raleigh) is in the vision of Atlanta and Charlotte of the 90's. Numbers may look good on paper, but that's really not what counts. It's fun to say "oh, well our population is growing at a higher rate than your's" until you look back at it five to ten years later and kick yourself in the butt for having praised sprawl as Charlotte is doing now. Come 2013 or 14 when you move back, I'm sure Raleigh will have become what Charlotte is now, but will have straightened out its goals, realized its faults, and will be headed towards smart growth like Charlotte is now. So either way, you should be ok.

[pyper]

The part of NC that's not part of the sprawl is quickly becoming heavily influenced by immigration. There are many little towns that had no grocery store 15 years ago (because it had closed) but today have two -- both Mexican. The character of the rural south is getting a little latin seasoning. Mexicans aren't the only immigrants to hit small rural towns. I also see a lot of Chinese food places, and many of the small hotels are owned by Indians.

So how does the price of gas figure into this sprawl? My annual gas bill has gone from under $1000 to over $3000. How many people don't notice money like that?

Part of the success of Charlotte can be attributed to the visionary former Mayor Harvey Gantt, who studied architecture at Clemson before getting a master's in City and Regional Planning from MIT. It's good planning that makes good cities, at least in part.

http://www.gantthuberman.com/ << Some nice looking stuff his firm's done.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

We are seeing a growing chasm between the two North Carolinas. We have urban/southern NC, rural NC; prosperous NC, depressed NC; population boom NC, population decline NC; southern NC, Mid-Atlantic/non-Southern NC. Parts of NC are becoming like Northern Virginia, with diversity and immigration changing the cultural hue of the region at a rapid pace. Still other parts of the state remain relatively unchanged from its historic roots and culture.

[NcSc74]

We are seeing a growing chasm between the two North Carolinas. We have urban/southern NC, rural NC; prosperous NC, depressed NC; population boom NC, population decline NC; southern NC, Mid-Atlantic/non-Southern NC. Parts of NC are becoming like Northern Virginia, with diversity and immigration changing the cultural hue of the region at a rapid pace. Still other parts of the state remain relatively unchanged from its historic roots and culture.

How much growth is good growth. The Triangle is a hot word nowadays and who are the leaders to power change. My fear is along with alot of other "natives" is will I be able to afford a house in 5-7-10 years down the road in our urban areas. I love the expansion don't get me wrong but are we giving too much wiggle room to developers. I can see a NOVA appareciation going on in the Triangle right now. Now imagine if norhtern Johnston county gets overvalued. Rural towns will start to get hit with the commuter homes and the pattern repeats itself. My point is what is the model the big three are looking at. As of right now SoCal is what it is looking like to me. Higher wages, more educated work force and an effort to be more family centered is driving all of the souths metros to less dense suburbs and exurb mentality.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The thing is unlike California, Colorado, and Arizona, North Carolina has no natural barriers and no critical shortage of water to prevent sprawl or cap growth, outside the mountains. Unlike New Jersey, it doesn't have a scarcity of land. Exurban counties like Nash, Vance, Lee, and Wilson have every incentive to gobble up any growth that comes their way. Without spillover growth, these counties' economies would have no hope. Wilson County is giddy for the crumbs of Triangle growth that are finally trickling its way. Without DC, exurban West Virginia and Loudoun County would look like their farflung neighbors, economically depressed with shrinking or stagnant populations. As the closer-in counties adopt smart growth policies, growth will leapfrog out to exurban counties with cheaper land and less restrictive policies.

[sax184]

How much growth is good growth. The Triangle is a hot word nowadays and who are the leaders to power change. My fear is along with alot of other "natives" is will I be able to afford a house in 5-7-10 years down the road in our urban areas. I love the expansion don't get me wrong but are we giving too much wiggle room to developers. I can see a NOVA appareciation going on in the Triangle right now. Now imagine if norhtern Johnston county gets overvalued. Rural towns will start to get hit with the commuter homes and the pattern repeats itself. My point is what is the model the big three are looking at. As of right now SoCal is what it is looking like to me. Higher wages, more educated work force and an effort to be more family centered is driving all of the souths metros to less dense suburbs and exurb mentality.

Right now, Charlotte has a model that is based on nodes, corridors, and directed growth. The other metro areas have no model, which means yes, SoCal or Atlanta.

[rjp212]

I find it interesting that Charlotte went from a poster child for sprawl and is slowly becoming a model for how growth should be.

[Jerseyman4]

I believe the cities throughout the state are changing here and there but in small town NC and Fayetteville, its pretty much the same ole same ole. I think when you return in general, you'll see a few new Wal Marts here and there, a couple more fast food places, improved highway corridors, more people pulled over for speeding but overall... things have remained mostly the same.