Contemporary Rental Housing

[mpchicago]

I think a loft project like this one that was featured in Dwell Magazine, 5 Delaware in Kansas City, would do very well here:

What do you all think

I think this type of housing (executed properly) would do very well in Grand Rapids, rental or condo. There is a ton of this stuff still going up all over Chicago despite the softening Condo market here. I like the floor to ceiling windows, but don't know if I would want to be in the corner unit on display. I have a 80 year old house, but I still love this stuff too.

[starrfish]

^^ For some reason the ouside looks ALOT better at night. Maybe it's softened by the light? In the daylight it just looks harsh and boxy. Maybe it actually has something to do with the photography or the actual location of the building and the other buildings in proximity, because I like the detail shots, like the concrete floors/radiant heat deal, like the concept in general. Something's just not clicking though. Trying to think of a spot in GR where a design similiar to this might look cool...

[GRDadof3]

^^ For some reason the ouside looks ALOT better at night. Maybe it's softened by the light? In the daylight it just looks harsh and boxy. Maybe it actually has something to do with the photography or the actual location of the building and the other buildings in proximity, because I like the detail shots, like the concrete floors/radiant heat deal, like the concept in general. Something's just not clicking though. Trying to think of a spot in GR where a design similiar to this might look cool...

I hear what you're saying. The 5th attached picture looks a lot like the Heartside district, and I could see this wedged in along Commerce, Sheldon, Lagrave, Jefferson, State or Division somewhere if there was a good piece of land available. But to reach that price point, this is probably what you'd get. There are no two ways about it. In fact, for that price range, I think this building looks fantastic. I think there is an untapped market for that price range, and that many people who would love to live downtown cannot afford $200+/sf price ranges, or they aren't happy with what they can afford at that price, especially with association dues thrown in on top of that.

The lower level concrete is a parking level, so I'm surprised they didn't add in any transparency.

[Nitro]

^^ For some reason the ouside looks ALOT better at night. Maybe it's softened by the light? In the daylight it just looks harsh and boxy.

I like the rendering better as well. In the rendering they softened the concrete wall with some cultured stone. They also screwed with the grades to diminish the effect of that wall. Look at the scale of the rendering vs. the scale of the people walking next to the building in the far distance.

I also like the darker panels as opposed to the wood panels.

Overall, I dig it.

[numstead]

Thanks for posting that project GRDad, that's the kinda stuff I like

^^ For some reason the ouside looks ALOT better at night.

That's because the night shot is a computer generated rendering.

[starrfish]

That's because the night shot is a computer generated rendering.

OMG! I did not even realize it was a rendering...I kept looking and looking at it "what is it about this that makes it look so much better?" Talk about a quality rendering - either that or I'm still asleep at the wheel over here! Thanks for showing me the light!

[twoshort]

It's been a while since so many people on here have agreed that they like something. That in and of itself should be proof enough that it could work.

[mpchicago]

When I first saw that building a thought, NE corner of Cherry and Eastern?

[starrfish]

When I first saw that building a thought, NE corner of Cherry and Eastern?

Couldn't picture Cherry & Eastern at first...I was about a block off!

What about where that gas station is on the corner of Lake & Diamond?

[GRDadof3]

When I first saw that building a thought, NE corner of Cherry and Eastern?

Probably because there's a medical office building there that looks somewhat similar.

[CK1]

I think a loft project like this one that was featured in Dwell Magazine, 5 Delaware in Kansas City, would do very well here:

It was done very inexpensively and sold for less than $80/sf at white box shells, then the homeowner could come in and do the finishes probably for about $25 - $35/sf depending on tastes. The floors and ceilings are all concrete, with the floors being highly polished concrete and 11' ceilings throughout. Radiant floor heating could probably be done in all the concrete floors, with area rugs to soften it up a bit. The top floor penthouses were all two-story units.

What do you all think (other than the blank concrete wall on that one side)?

I would honestly put a deposit down on one of these today if it were proposed for GR, even if the costs were a bit more (say $90 - $95 per foot).

EDIT: also, I would be willing to bet I could find at least 4 or 5 friends in the area who would do the same. Also, this would probably work well up on the property Gilmore is trying sell on the corner of Fulton and Carlton (near Aquinas, across from the Family Fare).

[mpchicago]

Probably because there's a medical office building there that looks somewhat similar.

Yep, that's why.

[GaryP]

I would honestly put a deposit down on one of these today if it were proposed for GR, even if the costs were a bit more (say $90 - $95 per foot).

EDIT: also, I would be willing to bet I could find at least 4 or 5 friends in the area who would do the same. Also, this would probably work well up on the property Gilmore is trying sell on the corner of Fulton and Carlton (near Aquinas, across from the Family Fare).

Just because something is built to white box for $95 dollars/square foot does not mean it will sell for $95/foot. I'm assuming that's just a construction number and doesn't include land, architecture, interest, ect.

EDIT: Just went back and checked and GRDad did say sold for $80/square foot. That is an unbelievable number. My apologies CK1

[twoshort]

Not to deflate anyones hopes.. but:

"Twelve brand-new lofts in the heart of the River Market. Units range in size from approximately 1900 to 2300 square feet. The units were originally sold as a "warm shell." This means that the space is sold raw with basic utility connections only, allowing the buyer to custom design and build their interior. Each unit has a balcony and 13-foot ceilings. The five third-floor penthouse units feature a second story with balconies up to 1300 square feet. Warm shell units were originally priced at $275-$450,000."

[Allison Slater]

It's been a while since so many people on here have agreed that they like something. That in and of itself should be proof enough that it could work.

Sorry to be that one person, but I don't like it =p It reminds me of some 70s modernist home. I'd expect to see orange couches and green carpeting in that thing.

[CK1]

Not to deflate anyones hopes.. but:

"Twelve brand-new lofts in the heart of the River Market. Units range in size from approximately 1900 to 2300 square feet. The units were originally sold as a "warm shell." This means that the space is sold raw with basic utility connections only, allowing the buyer to custom design and build their interior. Each unit has a balcony and 13-foot ceilings. The five third-floor penthouse units feature a second story with balconies up to 1300 square feet. Warm shell units were originally priced at $275-$450,000."

What's to say that something like this couldn't be reworked into units half that size? Lord knows I (as well as other yuppies) don't need 1900 square feet...give me 2 beds and 1 or two baths in 1000-1200 feet, and I'd be good to go!

[GRDadof3]

Not to deflate anyones hopes.. but:

"Twelve brand-new lofts in the heart of the River Market. Units range in size from approximately 1900 to 2300 square feet. The units were originally sold as a "warm shell." This means that the space is sold raw with basic utility connections only, allowing the buyer to custom design and build their interior. Each unit has a balcony and 13-foot ceilings. The five third-floor penthouse units feature a second story with balconies up to 1300 square feet. Warm shell units were originally priced at $275-$450,000."

I thought it sounded to good to be true. I think the developer in the Dwell article used the price (perhaps he said cost) of $76/sf.

However, with that being said, $275,000 for 1900 square feet works out to $144/sf white box, which is still pretty darn cheap for urban residential new construction.

[twoshort]

I thought it sounded to good to be true. I think the developer in the Dwell article used the price (perhaps he said cost) of $76/sf.

However, with that being said, $275,000 for 1900 square feet works out to $144/sf white box, which is still pretty darn cheap for urban residential new construction.

http://www.prukc.com/xq/ASPX/MLSNum.128414...rch/Listing.htm

That one is $168/sf for a 'warm shell.' Granted, it's a top floor 'penthouse,' but even if we go at $150/sf you get a 1000 sq ft for $150k. That 1000 square ft has NOTHING. It's "concrete floors and exposed concrete ceilings, three wet stacks, electrical service to units mechanical room and operating HVAC system (no ductwork)."

[GRDadof3]

http://www.prukc.com/xq/ASPX/MLSNum.128414...rch/Listing.htm

That one is $168/sf for a 'warm shell.' Granted, it's a top floor 'penthouse,' but even if we go at $150/sf you get a 1000 sq ft for $150k. That 1000 square ft has NOTHING. It's "concrete floors and exposed concrete ceilings, three wet stacks, electrical service to units mechanical room and operating HVAC system (no ductwork)."

Add in another $30/sf for finishes and it's still cheaper than all of the new projects in GR right now (and most anything else on this site in other cities).

[GaryP]

Add in another $30/sf for finishes and it's still cheaper than all of the new projects in GR right now (and most anything else on this site in other cities).

The other thing to consider is the fact that construction costs are highly local. How much of this nubmer is design and how much is from the local construction market? I think this information is published in construction manuals, could one of our construction members elaborate? Maybe a comparison between something standard between GR and KC could give a ratio to see exactly how inexpensive this type of construction could be done here.

Also our west side townhome guys have said 1450 sf for $220,000. Thats starting at $151/sf which I'm assuming is finished. I dont know how they will get to that number.

[twoshort]

Add in another $30/sf for finishes and it's still cheaper than all of the new projects in GR right now (and most anything else on this site in other cities).

I guess my point is that its a heck of a lot more than the $76/sf that Dwell referenced. Also, I'm very surprised you could go from bare concrete to livable space for $30/sf.

[GRDadof3]

I guess my point is that its a heck of a lot more than the $76/sf that Dwell referenced. Also, I'm very surprised you could go from bare concrete to livable space for $30/sf.

If you left out flooring, which it looks like they did in much of their photo tours, that would save a great deal. Also, you could leave the ceilings concrete and just leave the ductwork exposed to save money (I would guess). I believe that the "warm shell" also included unfinished interior walls. I pitched my copy of Dwell, so I don't remember the details (and it doesn't say on their website). The $76 may have been just cost (without land). Based on the looks of it, it certainly looks to be a low cost solution to mounting construction costs, which is probably going to price many people out of the near downtown market going forward.

[Nitro]

http://www.prukc.com/xq/ASPX/MLSNum.128414...rch/Listing.htm

Holy crap, did anyone catch the $541/month Condo Association fees????? That's a deal killer right there.

[GRDadof3]

Holy crap, did anyone catch the $541/month Condo Association fees????? That's a deal killer right there.

Well I hate being every other post in this thread, but that's for 2350 square feet, which equates to $.23/sf. That's pretty low relatively speaking for a multi-family project.

[twoshort]

Well I hate being every other post in this thread, but that's for 2350 square feet, which equates to $.23/sf. That's pretty low relatively speaking for a multi-family project.

Yah.. the random sample I picked from the plaza towers is $0.47/sf

Edit: Association dues suck.