Housing market in Fayetteville

[thewizard16]

I stopped by an looked at the Willow house yesterday... Very nice. It looks even better up close and personal than the pictures gave it credit for. Also, I drove by the Rebecca house... looks like that'll be a nice addition to that neighborhood, though there are definitely some other houses on that street that could use your touch.

[mzweig]

I stopped by an looked at the Willow house yesterday... Very nice. It looks even better up close and personal than the pictures gave it credit for. Also, I drove by the Rebecca house... looks like that'll be a nice addition to that neighborhood, though there are definitely some other houses on that street that could use your touch.

Thanks, Wiz! Yes--we have ample "raw material" to work with over on Rebecca. The problem is pricing. People want too much. I looked at a house over there a couple weeks ago--2000 square feet in very poor condition--the seller wanted $300-$340K! There's no way I could afford to rehab it at that price. I see a lot of that lack of realism.

M

[thewizard16]

Thanks, Wiz! Yes--we have ample "raw material" to work with over on Rebecca. The problem is pricing. People want too much. I looked at a house over there a couple weeks ago--2000 square feet in very poor condition--the seller wanted $300-$340K! There's no way I could afford to rehab it at that price. I see a lot of that lack of realism.

M

Yes, it's a bit of a catch-22 for you... You're fixing up several old houses in what was once (and still is mostly) a very nice part of town, so now the people that own the old houses that have been let go, or ones that aren't as old but were built cheaply, feel their properties are worth more than they would normally, since their neighbors' houses are so nice.

[mzweig]

Yes, it's a bit of a catch-22 for you... You're fixing up several old houses in what was once (and still is mostly) a very nice part of town, so now the people that own the old houses that have been let go, or ones that aren't as old but were built cheaply, feel their properties are worth more than they would normally, since their neighbors' houses are so nice.

If you ever followed old cars, the Barrett Jackson auction has that kind of effect. People see '57 Chevy convertibles sell for $100,000, ones that are frame-up restored and better than new, and then they think their old beater '57 4-door in the barn that's being used as a chicken coop must be worth at least half that!

M

[shaddo]

If you ever followed old cars, the Barrett Jackson auction has that kind of effect. People see '57 Chevy convertibles sell for $100,000, ones that are frame-up restored and better than new, and then they think their old beater '57 4-door in the barn that's being used as a chicken coop must be worth at least half that!

M

good analogy. So true!

[mzweig]

Got a contract on my house at 413 N. Willow today. There is still a market for high quality construction and materials and good design in this town. I know three people who sold houses in the last couple weeks here in Fayetteville--all of them were fairly expensive on a per square foot basis, and all in the downtown area.

M

[zman9810]

Got a contract on my house at 413 N. Willow today. There is still a market for high quality construction and materials and good design in this town. I know three people who sold houses in the last couple weeks here in Fayetteville--all of them were fairly expensive on a per square foot basis, and all in the downtown area.

M

It's good to hear that you are havng success with your projects- I know that you do high quality work and have rescued several properties from probable decay and destruction. Who knows what would have replaced them if you hadn't taken it upon yourself to renovate them.

I do wish that the downtown market had room for a lower price per square foot dwelling that had maybe a less a high quality but still perfectly nice for those who would want it. In my personal case (hindsight is 20/20) I should have bought one of the Maison Sequoyah 2 bedrooms units but those are gone. I would like to see something similar come along but of course I bought instead of leasing so I'm stuck where I'm at until the market recovers. Others are in much worse situations so I can't complain but OMG, the financial conditions right now are horrendous.

[thewizard16]

Got a contract on my house at 413 N. Willow today. There is still a market for high quality construction and materials and good design in this town. I know three people who sold houses in the last couple weeks here in Fayetteville--all of them were fairly expensive on a per square foot basis, and all in the downtown area.

M

Congrats! Like I said, if I get a better job than I currently have, I'll be snapping up one of your places. Glad to see Willow sold so (relatively) quickly though, that was a beautiful project.

[mzweig]

It's good to hear that you are havng success with your projects- I know that you do high quality work and have rescued several properties from probable decay and destruction. Who knows what would have replaced them if you hadn't taken it upon yourself to renovate them.

I do wish that the downtown market had room for a lower price per square foot dwelling that had maybe a less a high quality but still perfectly nice for those who would want it. In my personal case (hindsight is 20/20) I should have bought one of the Maison Sequoyah 2 bedrooms units but those are gone. I would like to see something similar come along but of course I bought instead of leasing so I'm stuck where I'm at until the market recovers. Others are in much worse situations so I can't complain but OMG, the financial conditions right now are horrendous.

I think that what you want is possible. I just got a permit on my project at 204 W. South Street, two blocks off the square. I am going to do a 2596 square foot house that will include a separate very nice studio apartment for rental or guests. It will have a main house with three beds and 2.5 baths, living, dining, library, large kitchen, and breakfast room. One of the baths will include laundry and there will be master suites up and downstairs. The apartment will be above the two car attached garage and have a separate outdoor entrance as well as an entrance to the house should someone want to make them all one house. I am going to do everything I can to keep costs down. Stock cabinets, cheaper baths with tile on floors only, cheaper plumbing fixtures, cheaper HVAC, vinyl windows, only some cedar shingle siding with the rest being Masonite, cheaper lighting, and either pine or pergo floors. It will also have a gas fireplace and white, lower cost appliances, though it will have a built in murphy bed in the apartment and almost 80 linear feet of porches on the outside. I am hoping I can keep the cost on this project in the $125/foot range. That would make it affordable for many if they rented the apartment for $450-550 a month. Anyway, I am going to work hard to keep the costs down, though it is not my nature to do so!

I am also considering doing a small in-town project with 3-4 Katrina cottages (small houses in the 600-770 square foot range with porches). These would all be in the $125 square foot price range. I am really intriqued with super small, super-designed small houses clustered together. These would all be painted pastel colors and have a lot of thought go into the design.....

M.

[mzweig]

Congrats! Like I said, if I get a better job than I currently have, I'll be snapping up one of your places. Glad to see Willow sold so (relatively) quickly though, that was a beautiful project.

Thanks. 523 E. Rebecca, a 1925 shingled bungalow, will be finished in a couple months. It is going to be smaller than 413 N. Willow was but super nice. It's going to have 1120 square feet on the main level, a 200-250 square foot loft (with stairs on casters leading to it), and a 500 square foot finished basement, plus a new one-car garage. It will have two beds and one a half baths on the main floor with another full bath, big room, and laundry in the basement. This place will also have a large front porch and a large deck on the rear, whole house sound throughout the house including the porches, all custom-made cabinets throughout, and a lot of built in furniture, including the china cabinet and all the furniture for the master bedroom. The appliances will be commercial grade, the doors 4-panel custom doors, the floors wood, the baths all done in historic tile patterns and colors. I dunno about price yet but it will be high for what it is....

[thewizard16]

I think that what you want is possible. I just got a permit on my project at 204 W. South Street, two blocks off the square. I am going to do a 2596 square foot house that will include a separate very nice studio apartment for rental or guests. It will have a main house with three beds and 2.5 baths, living, dining, library, large kitchen, and breakfast room. One of the baths will include laundry and there will be master suites up and downstairs. The apartment will be above the two car attached garage and have a separate outdoor entrance as well as an entrance to the house should someone want to make them all one house. I am going to do everything I can to keep costs down. Stock cabinets, cheaper baths with tile on floors only, cheaper plumbing fixtures, cheaper HVAC, vinyl windows, only some cedar shingle siding with the rest being Masonite, cheaper lighting, and either pine or pergo floors. It will also have a gas fireplace and white, lower cost appliances, though it will have a built in murphy bed in the apartment and almost 80 linear feet of porches on the outside. I am hoping I can keep the cost on this project in the $125/foot range. That would make it affordable for many if they rented the apartment for $450-550 a month. Anyway, I am going to work hard to keep the costs down, though it is not my nature to do so!

I am also considering doing a small in-town project with 3-4 Katrina cottages (small houses in the 600-770 square foot range with porches). These would all be in the $125 square foot price range. I am really intriqued with super small, super-designed small houses clustered together. These would all be painted pastel colors and have a lot of thought go into the design.....

M.

I like the Katrina cottage idea. I have a Lowe's Katrina cottage brochure that I'm keeping around if we decide to build a vacation home or hunting cabin or some other small style house anytime in the near future. Wouldn't necessarily be buying a Lowe's one, but the floorplans are pretty nice for the size in the book. The Lowe's ones are more pre-fab than what I imagine you'd be looking at, but they're handsome little houses with pretty good materials. (Plus, they're made to withstand a mild hurricane.) Also, I think there's some demand for that. Many of the older houses in-town aren't much bigger than that, and don't really need to be.

On that note, I went for a long walk around Walker Park today and was struck by how poor the condition of many of the nearby houses were, and how little real work and money it would take to make the places look presentable. It made me a little upset, but I think this is probably because I'm moderately obsessed with landscaping projects and how my property looks. I'm pretty confident that if I had a week and a thousand dollars for each, I could make most of those houses look 100% better.

Oh well, I suppose it's not my place to tell people how to keep their homes.

[mzweig]

I like the Katrina cottage idea. I have a Lowe's Katrina cottage brochure that I'm keeping around if we decide to build a vacation home or hunting cabin or some other small style house anytime in the near future. Wouldn't necessarily be buying a Lowe's one, but the floorplans are pretty nice for the size in the book. The Lowe's ones are more pre-fab than what I imagine you'd be looking at, but they're handsome little houses with pretty good materials. (Plus, they're made to withstand a mild hurricane.) Also, I think there's some demand for that. Many of the older houses in-town aren't much bigger than that, and don't really need to be.

On that note, I went for a long walk around Walker Park today and was struck by how poor the condition of many of the nearby houses were, and how little real work and money it would take to make the places look presentable. It made me a little upset, but I think this is probably because I'm moderately obsessed with landscaping projects and how my property looks. I'm pretty confident that if I had a week and a thousand dollars for each, I could make most of those houses look 100% better.

Oh well, I suppose it's not my place to tell people how to keep their homes.

Gosh, can I identify with that? I am always redoing everyone else's properties in my mind. I have a few realtors who even get input from me. A little work can go a long way, huh?!

M

[mzweig]

Hey, All. Here is a realtor website on my latest completed project--we call it "RebeccaHaus." I'm not trying to sell it to anyone here but thought you might be interested to see some pictures of a very high quality, historically-sensitive renovation. These houses are expensive not because I am greedy but because it costs a lot to do something right around here.

http://www.rebeccahaus.com

My next project will be considerably more affordable at 204 W. South St. in Fayetteville--one of, if not the first residence to be redone in the overlay district where they have design review.

Mark

[strmchsr77]

Hey, All. Here is a realtor website on my latest completed project--we call it "RebeccaHaus." I'm not trying to sell it to anyone here but thought you might be interested to see some pictures of a very high quality, historically-sensitive renovation. These houses are expensive not because I am greedy but because it costs a lot to do something right around here.

http://www.rebeccahaus.com

My next project will be considerably more affordable at 204 W. South St. in Fayetteville--one of, if not the first residence to be redone in the overlay district where they have design review.

Mark

Looks really good Mark! It is great that you are able to go into the historic district and really bring these homes back to life. I hope you can find a buyer soon. Keep up the good work.

[mzweig]

Here is my latest project. 204 W. South Street, the corner of South and Church. It has 3000 square feet of heated and cooled space, plus a two car garage. It has 80 feet of wraparound porch. The house is a two family--with a three bed, 2.5 bath main house, and a separate one bedroom apartment that can be integrated with the main house or rented separately to help out with the payments. This house is two blocks off the square and right down the hill from the Fayetteville police department. It is about four weeks from completion--perhaps five.

Mark

[realtorlady]

Here is my latest project. 204 W. South Street, the corner of South and Church. It has 3000 square feet of heated and cooled space, plus a two car garage. It has 80 feet of wraparound porch. The house is a two family--with a three bed, 2.5 bath main house, and a separate one bedroom apartment that can be integrated with the main house or rented separately to help out with the payments. This house is two blocks off the square and right down the hill from the Fayetteville police department. It is about four weeks from completion--perhaps five.

Mark

Mark--

The pictures look good and I think what you are doing is very commendable. I'll drive by and have a look. I'm a little tired of the pricey "urban chic" condos for inflated prices in central Fayetteville. The market for these was small to begin with, and continuing with more of the same is insanity. I feel that keeping the flavor of the older homes with modern amenities is definitely the way to go. The only problem with this is that your "buyer pool" will be somewhat small--i.e. other people who appreciate what you are doing. I've shown a few of your properties and am impressed with your construction values and how you are restoring the older homes in central Fayetteville.

The current market is the pits, so you are limited by what "similar" homes have sold for in the past 6 months (according to appraisers). Sometimes there are no comparables (they need at least 3), so you can't get what you have put into a home when you sell it. The market is what determines value, especially if the buyer will be financing the home.

I like the idea of Katrina cottages (mentioned by someone else), but they should be larger. There are a lot of people, especially older folks, who would like to live in central Fayetteville, but can't pay more than about $200K (or less). These folks are downsizing from much larger properties, so 600 sf is extremely small and they should be at least 2 bedroom. I have had many inquiries over the years from people on limited incomes, who would like to be in central Fayetteville, but can't afford the prices.

I wish there were a solution.....

[mzweig]

Mark--

The pictures look good and I think what you are doing is very commendable. I'll drive by and have a look. I'm a little tired of the pricey "urban chic" condos for inflated prices in central Fayetteville. The market for these was small to begin with, and continuing with more of the same is insanity. I feel that keeping the flavor of the older homes with modern amenities is definitely the way to go. The only problem with this is that your "buyer pool" will be somewhat small--i.e. other people who appreciate what you are doing. I've shown a few of your properties and am impressed with your construction values and how you are restoring the older homes in central Fayetteville.

The current market is the pits, so you are limited by what "similar" homes have sold for in the past 6 months (according to appraisers). Sometimes there are no comparables (they need at least 3), so you can't get what you have put into a home when you sell it. The market is what determines value, especially if the buyer will be financing the home.

I like the idea of Katrina cottages (mentioned by someone else), but they should be larger. There are a lot of people, especially older folks, who would like to live in central Fayetteville, but can't pay more than about $200K (or less). These folks are downsizing from much larger properties, so 600 sf is extremely small and they should be at least 2 bedroom. I have had many inquiries over the years from people on limited incomes, who would like to be in central Fayetteville, but can't afford the prices.

I wish there were a solution.....

The market does rule. Fortunately, I have my own sales to help out any appraisal tho the last two houses I sold went to cash buyers with no appraisal required. 413 N. Willow just turned up on an appraisal of my house at 523 E. Rebecca and it was a great comp at $280 sq. foot. This house at 204 W. South will be priced at about $140 sq. foot, which, while not cheap, is a lot cheaper than what I typically do and much cheaper than the $200/ft plus sterile, institutional condos, some of which are on the other side of College! So I hope it sells. It is a risk as all of this stuff is but we think someone will want it with a two car garage, rental income potential, and huge porch, all within walking distance to campus and Dickson. Anyway, time will tell.

The Katrina cottages I would like to do would be about 700 sq feet, two beds and one bath, or one bed and one bath, and would have to sell for less than $100K or would miss the market. I see these as houses for students, single people, or just married types who want to live in town. I think I can do this product at this price and it would sell.

We are also starting construction at 534 N. Willow this week as soon as we wrap up interior carpentry at 204 W. South Street. Permits are in hand and posted. The house is going to get an addition on the back that includes a bedroom up and exercise room down. It will also get a new garage built in front of and attached to the existing garage that will mimick the roofline of the house with a 12 over 12 pitch and a cupola. The front of the house will look similar to what it does now but will have a new fireplace going up the front gable flanked by long, narrow windows on either side. We are also planning to put three dormers on the front of the house and rebuild the front porch, eliminating the knee walls. The final house should be right at 3000 square feet plus have a garage/outbuilding totalling about 1100 square feet. It will have three bedrooms and three and a half baths, formal living, dining, and large kitchen. While I always try to do things using renewable materials (no vinyl, tin, or fake anything) along with high energy efficiency (good HVAC, water heaters, cellulose insulation, quality windows, etc.), this house will incorporate a number of additional features that make it "greener" than anything we have done before. It will also be of the highest quality finish out that we can do as the location and site merit it.

[butttrumpet]

The Katrina cottages I would like to do would be about 700 sq feet, two beds and one bath, or one bed and one bath, and would have to sell for less than $100K or would miss the market. I see these as houses for students, single people, or just married types who want to live in town. I think I can do this product at this price and it would sell.

This idea reminds me of the area next to Fiesta Square with the tiny siding class houses. Yuck.

[mzweig]

This idea reminds me of the area next to Fiesta Square with the tiny siding class houses. Yuck.

I would never do anything ugly like that. Also, this would be in town, not in the suburbs. It's a completely different concept!

[mzweig]

I have sold three houses in the last three weeks or so. The market downtown is strong. I am finding it hard, believe it or not, to buy anything. Most of the single family home inventory in the downtown area has been bought up recently. That which is still here is ridiculously overpriced ($220K houses that people are asking $400K for) and will be for sale good times and bad.

For a little frame of reference on pricing, 523 E. Rebecca had about 2000square feet, with 800 feet of so of it below grade (basement). It brought $325K or $162.50 per square foot. 44 Palmer (a 1200 sq. ft. house I took on trade) is under contract for about $120 a square foot (it's not redone). My house at the corner of Church and South is about 3000 sq. feet and is under contract for around $122 sq foot.

My house at 534 N. Willow will be about 3500 square feet, four bedroom and four and a half baths, plus has an 1100 square foot barn with a small guest quarters and full bath (about 400 sq. ft. finished). It is a super house--over the top in many ways. I am asking $895K for it. I may decide to move into the place myself!

M.

[Ruskin]

I have sold three houses in the last three weeks or so. The market downtown is strong. I am finding it hard, believe it or not, to buy anything. Most of the single family home inventory in the downtown area has been bought up recently. That which is still here is ridiculously overpriced ($220K houses that people are asking $400K for) and will be for sale good times and bad.

For a little frame of reference on pricing, 523 E. Rebecca had about 2000square feet, with 800 feet of so of it below grade (basement). It brought $325K or $162.50 per square foot. 44 Palmer (a 1200 sq. ft. house I took on trade) is under contract for about $120 a square foot (it's not redone). My house at the corner of Church and South is about 3000 sq. feet and is under contract for around $122 sq foot.

My house at 534 N. Willow will be about 3500 square feet, four bedroom and four and a half baths, plus has an 1100 square foot barn with a small guest quarters and full bath (about 400 sq. ft. finished). It is a super house--over the top in many ways. I am asking $895K for it. I may decide to move into the place myself!

M.

Two thoughts - 1) home inventory numbers are down to the same level they were at in 2004, and 2) the quality of the current inventory is worse since the better homes have been picked over (not to mention that the homes built in the boom consisted of an inappropriate suppy mix, but that is a topic for another day). Basically it seems to me that the active buyers in the market that are looking for a high quality home that isn't in a sprawl subdivision have way too little in the way of alternatives. Buyer numbers are down (of course), but those looking for the characteristics that Mark's homes provide have extremely little to choose from.

[mzweig]

Two thoughts - 1) home inventory numbers are down to the same level they were at in 2004, and 2) the quality of the current inventory is worse since the better homes have been picked over (not to mention that the homes built in the boom consisted of an inappropriate suppy mix, but that is a topic for another day). Basically it seems to me that the active buyers in the market that are looking for a high quality home that isn't in a sprawl subdivision have way too little in the way of alternatives. Buyer numbers are down (of course), but those looking for the characteristics that Mark's homes provide have extremely little to choose from.

I think you are right, Ward. Few alternatives for a small segment of the market. I see these being many of the same buyers that you will be attracting at Ruskin Heights. I think they want a different option from what is out there. They will pay top of the market prices but still want good quality and value.

[mzweig]

Speaking of the housing market, that article in the Demo Gazette this past weekend about the glut of subdivision lots in NWA really got me. All the darned economists who tell us we have seven years or eleven years or however many years of supply are forgetting one thing. These projections are based on current absorbtion rates. If the economy really picks up we could end up burning through those lots a lot faster. If a builder/developer comes up with differentiated product instead of only building neo-French brick Dallas wannabe drywall palaces that look like every other subdivision house with crappy windows, aluminum soffits, and three cars worth of cheap-assed garage doors, they may be more successful, also. I just get so tired of the media negativity fed by the economists who tell us what we already know! Aghh......

Mark

[zman9810]

Speaking of the housing market, that article in the Demo Gazette this past weekend about the glut of subdivision lots in NWA really got me. All the darned economists who tell us we have seven years or eleven years or however many years of supply are forgetting one thing. These projections are based on current absorbtion rates. If the economy really picks up we could end up burning through those lots a lot faster. If a builder/developer comes up with differentiated product instead of only building neo-French brick Dallas wannabe drywall palaces that look like every other subdivision house with crappy windows, aluminum soffits, and three cars worth of cheap-assed garage doors, they may be more successful, also. I just get so tired of the media negativity fed by the economists who tell us what we already know! Aghh......

Mark

Yeah, sometimes it seems like if isn't bad news then it doesn't qualify as news. Right now it seems like for every positive report there's another negative one.

I hope some of those lots are never built on or least built on far in the future- the ones on the far edges of the metro are the type of sprawl we don't need. They cause the need for more and wider roads we can't afford and that we should be trying to get away from. They also cause cities to extend other infrastructure and services further out. The local governments need to change their zoning practices to discourage that type development and provide incentives for infill and redevelopment.

[mzweig]

Yeah, sometimes it seems like if isn't bad news then it doesn't qualify as news. Right now it seems like for every positive report there's another negative one.

I hope some of those lots are never built on or least built on far in the future- the ones on the far edges of the metro are the type of sprawl we don't need. They cause the need for more and wider roads we can't afford and that we should be trying to get away from. They also cause cities to extend other infrastructure and services further out. The local governments need to change their zoning practices to discourage that type development and provide incentives for infill and redevelopment.

We agree. But the truth is, incentives for infill don't seem to be there. Instead, it is more difficult. You face potential neighbor opposition to any project. You also have groups like the historic preservationists who want to put barriers up to any development or change. There is some of that in the wind right now that in my opinion, will do more harm than good. I do think design standards should be used--in the overlay district, for example, you have to meet certain architectural standards which I think are helpful to ensuring the quality of buildings that will go in.

For the time being, there will always be people who want to live in subdivisions and drive everywhere they go. A lot of these folks are transients coming from somewhere else to here for an undermined amount of time. They often have young kids and want to be with other families who have young kids. They have visions of quiet streets their kids can play on without getting run over. They want to be near the "good" school. And there are many realtors who push people to these kinds of developments.

I think a lot of these people would be happier to live in town and have a greater appreciation for our community if they did. I also think they would find their houses easier to sell than if they bought in "sprawl-land." But everyone has to learn for themselves, I guess!

M