If the state allows cities to annex what will be the largest cities in the state by population?

[Atlside]

What do you think it will take for the state of South Carolina to allow cities to annex land into their city limits?

If they do change the laws to annex, what do you think will become the largest cities in South Carolina in order of rank?

I think the Greenville and Columbia wih have big egos. Greenville will like to have at least 250,000 because its home to the largest metro of over 1 million. Columbia would like to call itself the largest city in the state because it's the state capital.

[GvilleSC]

That's an interesting question... If ONLY the primary cities could annex then maybe we could predict more accurately, but some suburbs would provide a lot of competition for the larger ones...

[krazeeboi]

^Like North Charleston is doing for Charleston.

But in terms of the original question, it's hard to say. I still think the two largest will be Columbia and Charleston simply because they are now. Since those two have annexed pretty aggressively given our current annexation laws, more flexible laws would REALLY allow them to dig in their heels. Greenville would have a lot of catching up to do, and it simply appears as though the city just doesn't want a municipal population that reflects the true size of the area.

[sonofaque86]

Columbia and Charleston. They have the largest UA regardless. Plus they are annexing aggressively as it is. Think about if the laws were relaxed. The city limits for the most part have more open land to annex and develop that's contingent. Greenville would definately be third instead of being behind Rock Hill, Mt. Pleasant and N. Charleston like it is now. I'm sure Greenville would be a little above 250,000 and Columbia and Charleston around 400,000 if not more

[vicupstate]

There are too many variables to this hypotetical really. Asssuming suburbs would be under the same new law, they would be successful arguing that it would be better to be in a smaller suburb than the larger urban city.

Greenville and Columbia have a huge amount of unincorporated areas that would be annexable under this scenario. Very little of Charleston County is unincorporated anymore. However, that is because so much area has ALREADY been annexed to one city or another. In fact Charleston could probably reach 300,000 population without any further annexations.

I expect charleston to be the largest SC city in 2010 and likely to remain so for decades to come. A major change would have to occur in the annexation laws, or Cola or Greenville would have to consolidate with it's county for that to change IMO.

[sonofaque86]

I kind of agree. But I don' think by 2010. The 2005 US census bureau estimated Charleston a lil above 106,000 and Columbia a lil above 117,000. Both cities clamin to have higher population witht he census. But if you use their estimates that's still a huge gap

[monsoon]

I think the Greenville and Columbia wih have big egos. Greenville will like to have at least 250,000 because its home to the largest metro of over 1 million. Columbia would like to call itself the largest city in the state because it's the state capital.

Even if the laws are changed, the decisions will not be based on "egos". Annexatation requires a lot of work and due diligence to determine if it makes sense or not. What SC needs to do is to give cities EJT zoning authority over areas that it "might" annex in the future and take zoning decisions out of the hands of county governments. Then once the area has been properly zoned and developed it can be brought into the city.

[erm1981]

Some population statistics on Greenville and Richland counties and the counties that are contiguous to them are below. Based on 2005 estimates! The upstates 5 counties are way more populated than 7 different counties in the sandhills region. Not trying to start a war here but found this interesting. If anybody wants they can get the numbers off the 2000 census from this website and repost them. I think greenville would have the largest city by far if they could annex. Too many people live miles and miles out from greenville's city limits.

http://www.ors2.state.sc.us/population/estimates/county1.asp

Greenville - 407,383

---------------------------------

Spartanburg - 266, 809

Anderson - 175, 514

Pickens - 113, 575

Laurens - 70, 293

Total = 1, 033, 574

Richland - 340, 078

-----------------------------

Lexington - 235, 272

Sumter - 105, 517

Kershaw - 56, 486

Newberry - 37, 250

Fairfield - 24, 047

Calhoun - 15,100

Total = 813, 750

Thought this would interest some of you :-)

[carolinadude9409]

Erm1981 is correct. By looking at the number of people per square mile in Greenville, Richland, and Charleston Counties, Greenville would have the most populous city if it were the same size as Columbia and Charleston, but it's not unless annexation laws were to change, which isn't very likely in this state anytime soon. If annexation laws were to change and the cities of Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville were to annex the same amount of land then most likely Columbia would have the most people, Charleston would be second, and Greenville third, because Greenville would still have a smaller city limits than Columbia or Charleston.

[monsoon]

Thought this would interest some of you :-)

Not really, forgetting that these numbers have been posted here countless time, MSA size rarely determines the make up of the cities of said MSA. MSAs are a measure of commuting patterns, not the urban makeup of an area. Greenville shares it county with 5 other municipalities. What is to stop them from annexing areas of Greenville county?

[carolinadude9409]

How come cities like Columbia are allowed to annex more than Greenville?

[erm1981]

Greenville just has an "odd" setup when it comes to annexation and the way other cities like mauldin and greer which are two of the states fastest growing cities are virtually right up against greenville and hardly distinguishable cities own their own. They can annex their own portions of greenville county just like the city of greenville can. I guess that is how people refer to west columbia being so close to columbia yet columbia really hasnt annexed it because it is its own city just like greer and mauldin. Sorta Strange.

[vicupstate]

I kind of agree. But I don' think by 2010. The 2005 US census bureau estimated Charleston a lil above 106,000 and Columbia a lil above 117,000. Both cities clamin to have higher population witht he census. But if you use their estimates that's still a huge gap

My predition is based on the trend of the last 5 years. Charleston was 96,650 in 2000. The Census Bureau puts it at 106,000 in 2005. The city itself puts it at 115,450. The methodology is described below, and seems sound to me.

City of Charleston Population estimate

Columbia's 2000 population is 116,278, and the census puts it at 117,088 for 2005. I haven't seen any city-compiled figures.

[vicupstate]

How come cities like Columbia are allowed to annex more than Greenville?

Many factors come into play. The political will of the city to pursue it as will as the political resistance of the affected residents (which in Greenvile is high). Greer and Rock Hill require annexation in order to provide sewer service. That has allowed them to grow significantly for many years now.

Charleston shifted a significant portion of it's expenses from property taxes to the Local Option Sales Tax. That allowed the city to lower property taxes to a level lower than the Public Service Distrcts that provided city services in the unincorporated suburbs.

[sonofaque86]

My predition is based on the trend of the last 5 years. Charleston was 96,650 in 2000. The Census Bureau puts it at 106,000 in 2005. The city itself puts it at 115,450. The methodology is described below, and seems sound to me.

City of Charleston Population estimate

Columbia's 2000 population is 116,278, and the census puts it at 117,088 for 2005. I haven't seen any city-compiled figures.

City compiled figures for 2005 are 121,395 and 2010 predictions are 126,000...So I guess we'll see when 2010 comes around...If you use the US Census even if Charleston grew another 10,000 it still would be smaller.

http://www.centralsc.org/profiles/?nid=125

[Greenville]

Who is winning the peeing contest so far? It's hard to tell at this point.

[sonofaque86]

Who is winning the peeing contest so far? It's hard to tell at this point.

lol. back 2 topic. It's hard to tell. We just know its between Cola, Charleston, and Greenville

[erm1981]

The title of the thread begs for a pissing contest to begin...."my dad can kick your dads a%^"....LOL.....the best way too sum it up would be that all the major cities would gain loads of people for the next census,and we would all have bigger populations for our cities as far as census numbers go....

-Evan

[Charles Pearson]

*South Carolina "Would-Be" Big Five

Columbia.........600,000+

Charleston.......550,000+

Greenville........500,000+

Spartanburg.....225,000+

Myrtle Beach....225,000+

*My opinion based mainly on looks...attachments are preliminary paintings I have "in progress" of Columbia, Greenville, Charleston's Francis Marion Hotel & skyline entitled 'Holy City', Spartanburg's Morgan Square & Myrtle Beach...Images "painted here" with powerpoint...

[Infinite1]

the simplest approach to estimate this, in my opinion, would be to start with urbanized area and subtract out the population of any other municapalities within UA boundaries.

[goodbye]

*South Carolina "Would-Be" Big Five

Columbia.........600,000+

Charleston.......550,000+

Greenville........500,000+

Spartanburg.....225,000+

Myrtle Beach....225,000+

*My opinion based mainly on looks...attachments are preliminary paintings I have "in progress" of Columbia, Greenville, Charleston's Francis Marion Hotel & skyline entitled 'Holy City', Spartanburg's Morgan Square & Myrtle Beach...Images "painted here" with powerpoint...

Cool stuff, Zahc! Nice work on the conceptual images!

[krazeeboi]

I wish the annexation laws would get loosened so we could stop with all of the "what if" scenarios. Just let our cities do it already!

[erm1981]

I guess since there are so many people in the upstate within a short radius to greenville i figured greenville would top all the other cities in south carolina. Greenville also gained more citizens then any other county which should stand for something. Im talking about numbers not percentages. The percentage gain on a larger number (400,000) for 20,000 people will not be as high a percentage gain on say 30,000 people gaining 20,000 people. Its good to look at the real numbers.

[krazeeboi]

Dade County is the largest in Florida, yet Miami isn't its largest city. There are so many variables out there. Also, the suburbs would try to compete for some of these numbers as well. It isn't like Greer and Simpsonville would simply stand by idly while Greenville snatches up people.

[Spartan]

In an ideal scenario, we would get annexation laws like our neighbors to the north have. Assuming this scenario, the biggest gainers in terms of a percentage would be in the Upstate. The biggest losers would be in the Lowcountry. In this scenario you woudl have to base your numbers on urban areas (which is more or less how NC does it). However, that is assuming ONE central city per urban area. Right now there is only one city in the state that is the only city in its urban area, and that is Spartanburg.

Spartanburg's UA is about 145,000 as of 2000. So in reality it could become the largest city in terms of population. Greenville would be close, if not larger, but it would have to contend with Mauldin and Greer for territory. It is has a larger urban area than Spartanburg, but it is hard to say how this would work out. Anderson would get a significant boost as well, but it would still be less than Spartanburg.

Columbia can only annex into Richland County. Irmo and Chapin would take their parts of Lexington. Columbia also has to contend with Arcadia Lakes and Forest Acres. Columbia may gain 80k or 90k at best. West Cola, Cayce, Springdale, and Lexington woudl have a field day with annexation. Who knows how that would turn out... but you can rest assured Columbia woudl not see any gain there.

Most urban areas are already claimed in the Charleston area, so Charleston would not see a significant gain. Summerville, Goose Creek, Hanahan and Mount Pleasant may gain some though.

You cannot assume that the current population densities will continue with annexation. Greenville has the second highest population density in the State, but as it annexes outwards it will see that density drop dramatically, particularly if it annexes Taylors.

Florence may also see a gain, but it would be more on the same level of Anderson.