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Restaurant in Peerless


AriPVD

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I still don't get why it would be such a stretch to have a regular almost family type restaurant downtown? How does that not fit into some new vision of downtown? That no one wearing a polo shirt and running shoes need venture nor live?

Yes, not all things that appeal to the mall shopping set need be confined to the mall. Drag people out of the mall with options that appeal to them. Families are also looking for someplace other than Uno's to eat on a WaterFire night.

There's plenty of unhip people who don't want to go to the Cheesecake Factory all the time.

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Chelo's is a crappy restaurant in East Providence, Warwick (two spots, one on the water) and I think Cranston too maybe. People seem to like it, but I think it sucks, nothing special except big burgers.

I'd much rather see a Gregg's, they have the most amazing cakes and pies and are usually open late too.

There's a Chelo's here in Providence, too. I could hit it with a rock from where I'm sitting. Corner of Smithfield Ave and Silver Spring.

GMap

EDIT: PS it's terrible :sick:

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i don't think every restaurant downtown needs to be hip. i'd more likely go to greggs downtown than greggs on north main. i am actually somewhat turned off by the hip, trendy places mainly because i'm pretty far from hip and trendy. i think downtown needs something more easy going that serves good food that isn't "an experience". i don't consider food and eating to be an experience. i want to eat, enjoy my meal, have good ambience, and enjoy myself. gregg's does that for me, as do most of the "hip" places, but not because they're hip or because the meal is "an experience". the people moving downtown are not all going to be hipsters who want expensive trendy restaurants.

cotuit, you need to get out more. :P you're a rhode islanda. chelo's and gregg's are similar to a fridays/applebee's/ruby tuesdays, but they're local chains. gregg's is much better than chelo's (which sucks as far as i'm concerned).

gregg's

chelo's

yossarian mentioned the people who live downtown or will be... they're young professionals... i think you should try gregg's at lunchtime. it's packed with young professionals, businessmen, people of all walks of life, not just families. i think it'd fit in great downtown. it could be a hip place.

gregg's wouldn't dilute their brand by making a different looking restaurant and people wouldn't be opposed to it because as we now know... some young, hip 30-somethings that have lived here for several years don't even know what gregg's is (probably because he doesn't have a car and can't get to north main easily).

Yes, not all things that appeal to the mall shopping set need be confined to the mall. Drag people out of the mall with options that appeal to them. Families are also looking for someplace other than Uno's to eat on a WaterFire night.

There's plenty of unhip people who don't want to go to the Cheesecake Factory all the time.

gregg's would get a lot of families going to PPAC. and in the few walks i've down around downtown, i've seen some parents with their kids wandering around as well.

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cotuit, you need to get out more. :P you're a rhode islanda. chelo's and gregg's are similar to a fridays/applebee's/ruby tuesdays, but they're local chains. gregg's is much better than chelo's (which sucks as far as i'm concerned).

gregg's

chelo's

Nothing anyone has said about either place has made me want to get on a bus and go try it. However, I have walked from Federal Hill to Wayland Square to eat at Red Stripe (though I wasn't too impressed). And I am thinking if it's nice on Saturday, I may get on a bus to Pawtucket to go back to Madhouse. I wouldn't necessarily use me as a barometer for what people are willing to go out of their way for, but there you have it.

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Nothing anyone has said about either place has made me want to get on a bus and go try it. However, I have walked from Federal Hill to Wayland Square to eat at Red Stripe (though I wasn't too impressed). And I am thinking if it's nice on Saturday, I may get on a bus to Pawtucket to go back to Madhouse. I wouldn't necessarily use me as a barometer for what people are willing to go out of their way for, but there you have it.

the food isn't special, but i don't think every dining experience has to be special. it's not expensive, but it's good comfort type food with a big menu and awesome desserts (and i know you like desserts).

someone mention brighams... it's the same thing, in my opinion, as a friendly's or newport creamery. why brighams and not a rhode island brand like newport creamery?

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The Newport Creamery at Garden City was the single worst restuarant experience I've ever had in my life. Rhode Island would be better off erasing Newport Creamery from its history books. :sick:

It really is Awful Awful

hmmmm... i've never actually had a bad experience at one. while the food isn't great, it's like friendlies (although much faster service, i think friendly's has a policy of making the customer wait a long time for their food even if they're the only ones in the restaurant).

the ice cream at newport creamery is good (although the brighams in the store is better in my opinion). you should try the creamery on smith st in elmhurst (probably the only real restaurant in elmhurst).

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thems fightin' words

Yeah, I'm sure there's a bunch of things on the Cape I'd cry a river about losing (there's already a lot that has been lost), and others would be happy to see die. Not being a native Rhode Islander gives me the advantage of not having to choke down Awful Awfuls out of some sort of nostalgic state patriotism.

However, my disgust with Newport Creamery aside, I do think some NC, Friendly's, Brigham's type place would be good in Providence. However, I'd put it in the Jewelry District after Heritage Harbor comes online. Somewhere between HH and the Children's Museum where families can eat. A window where people who live and work in the JD can grab a cone or a shake, or people who are enjoying the riverwalk/new waterfront park can go for a burger.

I think the Peerless spot is way to small, by far for a place like this (as much as I'd like to see someone open an independent 'What Cheer Creamery'). There's no room for that all important take out window, and not too many places for people to take that take out to.

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First, everyone, this has become a fascinating, fascinating thread that is as much, in a way, about what Westminster should become as about restaurants themselves...

Check this out for general inspiration:

http://www.knickerbockerbarandgrill.com/

Well, my overall response to this (based upon my taste only, not economic potential) would be:

"Eh... Ok..."

Places like this are a dime a dozen in NYC. My father loved one in the Upper East Side near where I lived, and he'd drag our entire family to it every time he visited.

The concept is OK. A bit too "old boys club meets comfort food" for me. It's the kind of place I go to once a year for meatloaf and mashed potatos when it's 15 degrees out, it's snowing, I'm bundled in a sweater, and I'm in a comfort food mood and not visiting my folks in NY... Check out the puckered horseshoe black leather booths. Not my thing...

But it's a taste issue. My girlfriend, on the other hand, would probably love the Knicker Bocker. It's nearly identical in look and menu to a place called the West Side Lounge in Cambridge near where she lives, and she's eating and meeting people there all the time, which is probably just your intent for a restaurant like this. While it doesn't excite me, she'd go for it 100%. So again, it's individual taste...

Would a place like this do well on Westminster? From an ecnomic standpoint, I'd bet it would do well, and it fits your description of what you want 100%.

From my taste and style perspective, for moving the needle on the rebirth of Westminster, it's a single or double, not the triple or homerun I was hoping for. Someone mentioned Madhouse in Pawtucket, and I don't know why I didn't think of that, but someplace with the creativity, style, edge, and whimsy of Madhouse would draw me there in a heartbeat and would be perfect. I've been to Madhouse about 3 times in the last 2 months, and it isn't anywhere close to where I am. I just love the vibe and the menu concepts. I think it, or something like it, would be perfect.

- Garris

PS: For Cotuit's benefit, Gregg's and Chelo's are like the Buick of the restaurant world. So uncool and so suburban that their mere presence downtown would do harm... I view Chelo's as the Darth Vader of the restaurant world, easily the worst food I've had in RI (much worse than Newport Cremery, whose quality was about what I expected). Gregg's is average suburban kiddies/SUV/elderly diner fare, but their pies do absolutely rock. Whenever I'm asked to bring a desert to a pot luck and I know the people there like pies, I get them from Gregg's. Gregg's, though, might have the biggest surface parking lot (save for retail plazas) on all of North Main St. Enough said...

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If we're looking on the order of greggs/chelos, I'd like to suggest Brighams. There used to be a fantastic Brighams in downtown Boston right in the financial district. There were a few others, too.

Great local ice cream. Excellent, comfy diner style menu.

Did I mention great ice cream?

Providence has already had a Brighams. It was located next to the City Hall opposite Haven Brothers. Where are they now in Massachusetts? They seem to have left Boston?

Mark

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Providence has already had a Brighams. It was located next to the City Hall opposite Haven Brothers. Where are they now in Massachusetts? They seem to have left Boston?

There was one at least as late as the late 90s near Waverly Square in Belmont, and I think they are scattered about the North Shore. I think of them as more of a North Shore place, there was never one on the Cape and I'm not at all familiar with them. My boyfriend, who is from Lynn would probably love to see one someplace in Providence.

Opposite Haven Brothers where Mattress Giant is now? I actually see that as a good place for something like that. Right off Kennedy Plaza to catch people getting on/off buses, not too far from the mall, in the Financial District, highly visible...

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someone mention brighams... it's the same thing, in my opinion, as a friendly's or newport creamery. why brighams and not a rhode island brand like newport creamery?

I agree. Brigham's is just the Massachusetts version of Newport Creamery (although I think there might be one on Reservoir Ave in Cranston.) Grody. As a 5-year-old I once babysat said, "They oughta call it an Awful Barful!"

I stopped frequenting both the Creamery and Brighams once I had more than $4.00 to spend, and stopped needing someplace other than my Mom's to hang out late at night.

I would LOVE a good Ethiopan place (please, please please!), but could definitely see that a place with good comfort food, appealing to a wide range of people, would be the right choice. I would definitely go for cheap, quality brunches on the weekend, and a good salad or soup or something pretty regularly for dinner. And how about a late-night menu including pie and coffee?

Personally, I would be much more likely to go to a mom-and-pop than a chain.

For the over-all vision of downtown restaurants, it would be great to have a wide selection of ethnic food. But really good basics would be more than welcome, and could really contribute to bringing more general pedestrian activity downtown.

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(much worse than Newport Cremery, whose quality was about what I expected)

To be fair, the food at Newport Creamery was more or less as expected, big greasy burger, but the place was so extremely dirty that I couldn't enjoy it. I mean I know Newport Creamery hasn't been in a good financial situation in decades, but I didn't realize they couldn't afford mops or sponges.

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And how about a late-night menu including pie and coffee?

You know, when some of us met at Tazza a couple weeks ago I ordered a mocha late in the evening, I thought that maybe I had had enough beer. I was told the cafe had closed (it was maybe around 10pm). So I ordered another beer. :alc: I wonder though, what part of Tazza Caffe makes them think they should 'close' the cafe after a certain hour? Had the only person qualified to use the espresso machine gone home?

I've worked in a high end cafe and know there is a bit of a process to closing down an espresso machine for the night (lots of cleaning), but could they not close it down later?

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i don't think every restaurant downtown needs to be hip. i'd more likely go to greggs downtown than greggs on north main. i am actually somewhat turned off by the hip, trendy places mainly because i'm pretty far from hip and trendy. i think downtown needs something more easy going that serves good food that isn't "an experience". i don't consider food and eating to be an experience. i want to eat, enjoy my meal, have good ambience, and enjoy myself. gregg's does that for me, as do most of the "hip" places, but not because they're hip or because the meal is "an experience". the people moving downtown are not all going to be hipsters who want expensive trendy restaurants.

is much better than chelo's (which sucks as far as i'm concerned).

gregg's

chelo's

yossarian mentioned the people who live downtown or will be... they're young professionals... i think you should try gregg's at lunchtime. it's packed with young professionals, businessmen, people of all walks of life, not just families. i think it'd fit in great downtown. it could be a hip place.

Getting a Gregg's or Chelo's to move downcity will never happen even if there was an incentive for them to do so. All there restaurants are in suburban-ish strips with surface parking. Whether you agree or disagree with the direction of downcity, one can all agree that:

1.) This area was never really known as a sit-down dining destination.

2.) The parking situation still is a hassle in many people's eyes.

It doesn't matter whether it's a "hipster" place or not. It needs to be a unique destination that attracts people from far and wide. It has to be a place that has experience in "start-up" or unconventional areas. I would not want to see any restaurant put in there for the sake of it and watch it close 6 months later. I've seen that my whole life downtown. As much as people have had grand visions for this area, you can't expect to bring something very or even fairly common to the area with ample parking survive in downtown Providence. ( ex. Italian, Portuguese, Dominican, sandwich place, local chain, big chain, and seafood among others) . While I do think that some fast food chains should re-appear downtown, the sit down and other assorted chains should stay in or around the mall area and the Power Block. I guess nobody liked the NY belly dancer Egyptian restaurant idea.

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i disagree. it does not have to be a unique destination restaurant with some sort of wacky hook that brings people in from far and wide. It has to be a restaurant where people who LIVE downtown eat at. It has to be a restaurant that people who WORK downtown eat at, and it has to be a restaurant that people who VISIT downtown eat at.

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There's plenty of people outside of downtown but within the city like myself, car or no, who don't want to drive to a strip mall in the suburbs. Those of us who live in the city either know where to park if we must drive, or will just walk. I think the parking problem is grossly overstated, at least so far as it applies to those of us who live in town. And if restaurants can thrive on Federal Hill and Thayer street, there is absolutely no reason that parking should be an impediment to a restaurant Downcity. There are numerous restaurants Downcity already that prove this. I can't see how a Westminster Street location suddenly makes parking an insurmountable problem.

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i eat downtown often and i usually drive and i never have problems finding an on street spot. And i go downtown all the time for meetings and stuff after work hours (when i think i'm shut out of my garage) and i almost never have to park farther than a block from city hall. i think the parking thing is an over-issue as well. Sure, i have paid a king's ransom in parking tickets before i got a space in the garage, but that was no one's fault but mine, frankly so i can't blame the city for that.

waiting for a table is a far greater impediment to me eating somewhere than parking.

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I drive into the city for various reasons probably once a week on average, at various times of the day and evening. I have never had to park more than a five minute walk from any destination, even on occasions with major events in the area. There is no shortage of parking in Providence.

Getting your typical suburbanites to walk five minutes for a restaurant, though, is another story... :whistling:

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There's plenty of people outside of downtown but within the city like myself, car or no, who don't want to drive to a strip mall in the suburbs. Those of us who live in the city either know where to park if we must drive, or will just walk. I think the parking problem is grossly overstated, at least so far as it applies to those of us who live in town. And if restaurants can thrive on Federal Hill and Thayer street, there is absolutely no reason that parking should be an impediment to a restaurant Downcity. There are numerous restaurants Downcity already that prove this. I can't see how a Westminster Street location suddenly makes parking an insurmountable problem.

i drive and park downtown all the time. i'd take the bus, but their schedules from elmhurst aren't anything useful for me (i think i get to take it for free with PC ID card). but i've never had a problem finding a space... and the last 2 times i was down there during happy hours time (5-6:30 ish), i found spaces right on empire (and i have a rant about that that i'll throw in another thread).

i was down in narragansett today and for some reason it was the first time i actually noticed "newport cafe". i didn't go inside, but would that work for that spot on westminster?

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Getting your typical suburbanites to walk five minutes for a restaurant, though, is another story... :whistling:

Exactly! That's the whole point. Whether there is a good-sized market for this from people that live,work,or play downtown, it is still not enough to support a viable "chain" business that could easily set up shop somewhere else and expect double if not more patronage somewhere else. I personally don't think parking is an issue... but I know where to park. People that visit here don't and they can't rely on the "excellent" signage we have here to guide them through every step. I am not totally in favor of the direction that downcity is going for...I definitely think that they should be encouraging arts and entertainment more, but there are residents that are moving in and these residents do need some basic services. The wine/spirits store is a good choice if there stock isn't something they carry in every liquor store on every corner. Lord knows that there is no shortage of liquor stores in Pvd. The Black Rep and Design Within Reach are establishments that aren't necessarily common to the area and therefore fit into the definition of "different.". It doesn't have to be "upscale" and "unaffordable." A downtown business in the CBD needs to be different and unique in order to survive. One can even say that the long term urban Asian clothing stores are unique because you can't go to Warwick and find that....and those stores are definitely NOT upscale. The CBD has been through cycle after cycle and has tried to re-invent itself for as long as I can remember. I think that there is more than potential there but a true diverse mix of entertainment and shopping is, in my opinion, the route to take....All the workers and inhabitants will not support a healthy retail mix unless outside visitors and suburbanites think it's worthwhile to patronize such establishments....and unfortunately parking and perceived safet are their #1 concerns...

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There has to be a point where you stop worrying about catering to suburban expectations because there is no way they can be met. You have to cater as much as you can, but the real target market for Downcity has to be the residents of Downcity and the nearby areas (Fed Hill, College Hill, Smith Hill...) and those suburban people who get it. The people who refuse to walk two blocks or think there are drug dealers hiding behind every shrub in the city need to be written off at some point. They're never coming Downcity unless we tear down one side of every block for surface parking, and even then, they wouldn't come.

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