Will Louisville ever get a professional sports team?

[Rwarky]

Do you believe Louisville will ever get a professional sports team? If it did, could the area support it?

[502ky]

Do you believe Louisville will ever get a professional sports team? If it did, could the area support it?

I would say th e answer to your question is no and yes. The area could definitly support one of the three: NFL, NHL, NBA. The NFL is out of the question because of proximity to St.Louis, Nashville, Indy, and Cincy. NHL just wouldn't draw any local interest but we could support it financially. NBA is out because they wouldn't want to play second fiddle in the new arena to a College team. The only way a NBA team comes here is if they build there own arena or if they want to play second fiddle to a college team. I actually am a big NBA and NFL fan so I wish we had either or, but unfortunately the leaders in our city and in frankfort are so short sighted that I doubt it ever happens. So I guess just enjoy watching college atheletes for a while, but I think the NBA boat left the dock a long time ago. The city should of never let the Kentucky Colonels get away back in the ABA days. All they had to do was pay 20,000 freaking dollars to keep the team and move to the NBA. This is just another example of how Indy and has left us in the dark. Once again without getting your hopes up, the answer is simply NO. Just be happy we are getting a state of the art arena built.

[Plasticman]

Probably. I would bet on a baseball team. The NFL is saturated with new teams right now and there are cities ahead of Louisville in the line to get one. Charlotte and Jax got expansion teams because they struck while the iron was hot. Nashville lured the Oilers away from Houston but Nashville seems to be on top of their growth and business potential, especially in the last ten years. The only way Louisville could get an NFL team is to lure one away from some other city and I don't see Louisville having the same media market that Nashville, Charlotte, or even Jax has.

But as stated, Louisville would be ripe for a professional baseball team. You could call them the Louisville Sluggers (as opposed to the Redbirds) in honor of the famous bat. That would be so perfect.

[502ky]

Probably. I would bet on a baseball team. The NFL is saturated with new teams right now and there are cities ahead of Louisville in the line to get one. Charlotte and Jax got expansion teams because they struck while the iron was hot. Nashville lured the Oilers away from Houston but Nashville seems to be on top of their growth and business potential, especially in the last ten years. The only way Louisville could get an NFL team is to lure one away from some other city and I don't see Louisville having the same media market that Nashville, Charlotte, or even Jax has.

But as stated, Louisville would be ripe for a professional baseball team. You could call them the Louisville Sluggers (as opposed to the Redbirds) in honor of the famous bat. That would be so perfect.

Actually the media market here is very comparable to Nashville and Jacksonville. Charlotte probably not but definitly the others. The MLB would never come to Louisville because they couldn't survive here. I don't think we have enough people here who can financially afford to pay for season tickets for 90 something home games a year. Thats why the MLB is in huge markets, a private firm has already ran a test on the market here in Louisville to see which pro leagues would survive here. The three listed where NFL, NBA, NHL. NFL is only 8 or so home games a year and people here could easily afford that, the NBA and NHL are around 40 or so. With the MLB having the highest season ticket prices, there's no way a team would last here. Thats why you see cities like Indianapolis, Charlotte, Columbus, and others without MLB teams, because those markets can't handle the fiancial burden. Plus those cities already have more than 1 pro team. Louisville can certainly handle one, but two would be stretching the dollar. Like I said earlier, we are just sandwiched between too many markets for the NFL, people in Louisville would not support hockey, and the NBA could definitly work, but with the agreement the University of Louisville has with the new arena, a NBA team would not be interested. I wish we could land a NFL team, but for obvious reasons(Colts, Titans, Bengals, Rams)that would never happen. MLB is way to expensive for the Louisville market and many markets not named ATL, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Seattle, D.C, Philly, NY, Boston, Miami. MLB works in similar markets like Milwaukee and Kansas City, because the MLB is branded in those communities, baseball started those two cities a century ago. Milwaukee and Kansas City are the only medium sized markets I can think of that is actually in the MLB. The rest of the cities have metro's of over 3 million plus.

[Rural King]

Louisville is definately capable of supporting a pro-sports team, but as others have mentioned geographical concerns in the city's proximity to other markets make it a harder task to accomplishment. Will the city ever get a professional sports team? I think so at some point. When....???? Now thats a totally different question.

It seems that landing a NBA or a NFL team is going to require an individual or individuals from the local government and/or the business community with the vision and means to get behind the idea and sell the populace and local/state government on it.

Does that person and/or persons exist currently in the city?

[ppassafi]

Louisville is definately capable of supporting a pro-sports team, but as others have mentioned geographical concerns in the city's proximity to other markets make it a harder task to accomplishment. Will the city ever get a professional sports team? I think so at some point. When....???? Now thats a totally different question.

It seems that landing a NBA or a NFL team is going to require an individual or individuals from the local government and/or the business community with the vision and means to get behind the idea and sell the populace and local/state government on it.

Does that person and/or persons exist currently in the city?

Yes and No. There is filthy old wealth in Louisville. It is the kind of wealth leftover from Louisville's run as the South's premiere industrial city. Did you know Louisville had one of the orginal MLB baseball teams in the National League of baseball until the early 1900's? Along with New Orleans, Louisville was the South's major city until about the 1930's. Memphis and Richmond were important too but didn't have the clout that Louisville did. Then came WW2 and post war the sprawlbusters came out on top--Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston emerged as mega cities by the 1960's. Miami came even later. In the last 20 years, towns like Nashville and Charlotte, once less than half Louisville's size, have recently passed Louisville in metro population.

So, there are some very wealthy people here that are tobacco, whiskey, and inustrial heirs. There also is some "new" money with our new distribution and medical based economy and 4 Fortune 500 companies.

However, I can only see two people with the vision, cash, and gumption to bring pro sports to Louisville--that is Todd and Johnathon Blue. These guys are slick young guns that have combined their families' old money with their new age business ventures. They were on the last committe headed by local attorney J. Bruce Miller that tried to lure the Rockets, Grizz, and Hornets to Louisville. Miller wrote a book entitled Airball that explains Louisville's 30 year odyssey trying to get the NBA to town since the city's ABA days with places like Indianapolis in the 1970's. The book explained how the teams really wanted in Louisville but how the mayor and city leaders failed to negotiate with them and talk about building an arena.

Just the other day, an article appeared about the Blues' company, Blue Equity, which has aquired some major league sports stuff. I suspect these guys are up to something:

Excerpt

"Blue helped arrange the financing for the Mike Tyson boxing match against Danny Williams two years ago. He and his brother, Todd Blue, were part of a failed attempt to build a downtown arena to lure a National Basketball Association team to Louisville."

Full Article from August 21, 2006

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.d...SINESS/60821023

[502ky]

Yes and No. There is filthy old wealth in Louisville. It is the kind of wealth leftover from Louisville's run as the South's premiere industrial city. Did you know Louisville had one of the orginal MLB baseball teams in the National League of baseball until the early 1900's? Along with New Orleans, Louisville was the South's major city until about the 1930's. Memphis and Richmond were important too but didn't have the clout that Louisville did. Then came WW2 and post war the sprawlbusters came out on top--Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston emerged as mega cities by the 1960's. Miami came even later. In the last 20 years, towns like Nashville and Charlotte, once less than half Louisville's size, have recently passed Louisville in metro population.

So, there are some very wealthy people here that are tobacco, whiskey, and inustrial heirs. There also is some "new" money with our new distribution and medical based economy and 4 Fortune 500 companies.

However, I can only see two people with the vision, cash, and gumption to bring pro sports to Louisville--that is Todd and Johnathon Blue. These guys are slick young guns that have combined their families' old money with their new age business ventures. They were on the last committe headed by local attorney J. Bruce Miller that tried to lure the Rockets, Grizz, and Hornets to Louisville. Miller wrote a book entitled Airball that explains Louisville's 30 year odyssey trying to get the NBA to town since the city's ABA days with places like Indianapolis in the 1970's. The book explained how the teams really wanted in Louisville but how the mayor and city leaders failed to negotiate with them and talk about building an arena.

Just the other day, an article appeared about the Blues' company, Blue Equity, which has aquired some major league sports stuff. I suspect these guys are up to something:

Excerpt

"Blue helped arrange the financing for the Mike Tyson boxing match against Danny Williams two years ago. He and his brother, Todd Blue, were part of a failed attempt to build a downtown arena to lure a National Basketball Association team to Louisville."

Full Article from August 21, 2006

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.d...SINESS/60821023

I can agree with everything you said. Louisville was the hornets "first" choice for obvious reasons and one of the main reasons why they wanted to come to Louisville was because it was an untapped market. Plus the fact that Louisville and the state of Kentucky is crazy about basketball. Louisville was a no-brainer if you look at things in that respect. The only NBA market in the region is the Pacers, but I also know the Pacers tried to block the hornets from coming here, because they felt a team here would intrude there market. That wasn't even the reason the hornets didn't come here though. Yum brands would was willing to put up 100 million for naming rights and the financial package was there, but as always the city found a way to let politics ruin a good thing for the city and the Hornets where tired of waiting and ended up in New Orleans.

Lately the mindset has changed in the city and hopefully some of these young guys like the Blue's and Papa John can lead the city in the right direction. There's plenty of wealthy folks here and the business community would be behind anything to attract new life to the city and a Pro franchise would go a long way from preventing the brain drain. The only thing that has held Louisville back for years has been the old politicians who never want to see change or growth in the city. The power in the city is now starting to change hands so I think in the future we might see a pro franchise of some sort locate to Louisville. I'm not saying it will be in the next 5 yrs, but possibly in the next 10-15 yrs something may happen. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Plasticman]

Actually the media market here is very comparable to Nashville and Jacksonville. Charlotte probably not but definitly the others. The MLB would never come to Louisville because they couldn't survive here. I don't think we have enough people here who can financially afford to pay for season tickets for 90 something home games a year. Thats why the MLB is in huge markets, a private firm has already ran a test on the market here in Louisville to see which pro leagues would survive here. The three listed where NFL, NBA, NHL. NFL is only 8 or so home games a year and people here could easily afford that, the NBA and NHL are around 40 or so. With the MLB having the highest season ticket prices, there's no way a team would last here. Thats why you see cities like Indianapolis, Charlotte, Columbus, and others without MLB teams, because those markets can't handle the fiancial burden. Plus those cities already have more than 1 pro team. Louisville can certainly handle one, but two would be stretching the dollar. Like I said earlier, we are just sandwiched between too many markets for the NFL, people in Louisville would not support hockey, and the NBA could definitly work, but with the agreement the University of Louisville has with the new arena, a NBA team would not be interested. I wish we could land a NFL team, but for obvious reasons(Colts, Titans, Bengals, Rams)that would never happen. MLB is way to expensive for the Louisville market and many markets not named ATL, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Seattle, D.C, Philly, NY, Boston, Miami. MLB works in similar markets like Milwaukee and Kansas City, because the MLB is branded in those communities, baseball started those two cities a century ago. Milwaukee and Kansas City are the only medium sized markets I can think of that is actually in the MLB. The rest of the cities have metro's of over 3 million plus.

Actually Louisville ranks #50 in U.S. television markets. Jacksonville is actually behind Louisville at #52. Howver Charlotte and Nashville are numbers 28 & 30 respectively. So L'ville and Jax are neck and neck but Nashville and Charlotte are way ahead. But that still begs the question of how did Jax land the Jags being a #52 TV market. Hmmmm....I'm not sure but it does give Louisville some hope in that one area.

[502ky]

Actually Louisville ranks #50 in U.S. television markets. Jacksonville is actually behind Louisville at #52. Howver Charlotte and Nashville are numbers 28 & 30 respectively. So L'ville and Jax are neck and neck but Nashville and Charlotte are way ahead. But that still begs the question of how did Jax land the Jags being a #52 TV market. Hmmmm....I'm not sure but it does give Louisville some hope in that one area.

TV markets are overrated. TV sets aren't going to pay for premium tickets at games. Its about how many corporations and people with fat pockets who are willing to pony up the money to pay for overpriced ball games. Not only that but TV markets change year to year and you can go to a bunch of sites that will have different numbers. I've seen Jacksonville as high as 32 and as low as 52. So is that credible? Like I said thats why TV markets don't really mean jack in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if you are a talk show host or something like that TV markets might mean something, but they don't pay any bills.

[Clobber]

Actually Louisville ranks #50 in U.S. television markets. Jacksonville is actually behind Louisville at #52. Howver Charlotte and Nashville are numbers 28 & 30 respectively. So L'ville and Jax are neck and neck but Nashville and Charlotte are way ahead. But that still begs the question of how did Jax land the Jags being a #52 TV market. Hmmmm....I'm not sure but it does give Louisville some hope in that one area.

Tennessee's legislature in refusing to support an expanded stadium in Memphis probably helped Jax out a lot during that expansion. Memphis had an incredible ownership group, but without state help, the worst stadium plan. Then, a few years later . . . look who got a brand-new stadium, and an NFL team, and asked for Memphis' support. Not that I'm bitter. F' the Titans. Go Grizzlies!

I'd really like to see Louisville get an NBA team. There's such a history between Louisville and Memphis even beyond the Cards and Tigers. FedEx vs. UPS. Autozone Park vs. Slugger Field. Both cities hosted Tyson fights. Downtown rebirths are transforming each city. The respective rivers.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Birmingham, AL is even ahead of Louisville for major league teams. They can support all but a major leagure baseball team. Birmingham's been starved for a major league team, just as Louisville. But, I think that Louisville would get one before Bham just because the NFL team would have too much competition with both Auburn and Alabama, even University of Alabama at Birmingham football. All of those teams would likely take business from the NFL team. Alabama likes college teams better for some reason.

[Plasticman]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Birmingham, AL is even ahead of Louisville for major league teams. They can support all but a major leagure baseball team. Birmingham's been starved for a major league team, just as Louisville. But, I think that Louisville would get one before Bham just because the NFL team would have too much competition with both Auburn and Alabama, even University of Alabama at Birmingham football. All of those teams would likely take business from the NFL team. Alabama likes college teams better for some reason.

Tennessee has UT Vols and still got the Titans and most of Tennessee bleeds orange and are just as rabid as the Alabama / Auburn fans.

Birmingham might support an NFL team.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Tennessee has UT Vols and still got the Titans and most of Tennessee bleeds orange and are just as rabid as the Alabama / Auburn fans.

Birmingham might support an NFL team.

Haha, I think Birmingham would support one too. I definitely would. But, they'd get more support without Bama and Awburn. Though I'd rather have Bama than have an NFL and lose Bama.

About Tennessee, Tenn. only has one really good college team, so, they have more room for an NFL. The also have an extra 1,000,000 people to boot. So, yea.

[ppassafi]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Birmingham, AL is even ahead of Louisville for major league teams. They can support all but a major leagure baseball team. Birmingham's been starved for a major league team, just as Louisville. But, I think that Louisville would get one before Bham just because the NFL team would have too much competition with both Auburn and Alabama, even University of Alabama at Birmingham football. All of those teams would likely take business from the NFL team. Alabama likes college teams better for some reason.

Huh? I can't think of any way B'ham is "ahead" of Louisville. Louisville is a bigger city, metro, CSA, and much larger Urban Area. Louisville has more economic importance and more big business and money. Birmingham has never had an attempt at major pro sports. Louisville had an original MLB baseball team in the 1890's and an ABA basketball team that could have gone to the NBA like the Spurs and Pacers in the 1970's--the owner fumbled that deal. Just within the last 5 years, the Grizz, Rockets and Hornets considered Louisville in PUBLISHED reports. I have never seen an NFL owner mention Birmingham as a possible relocation choice--all the talk about the NFL in B'ham is being generated by a few local guys and local media. In fact, the Hornets had a SIGNED letter of intent to locate in Louisville in 2001 on condition that the city would help construct a new arena. There was no mayoral leadership and it didn't happen.

Now, we have decided to build a 450 million dollar basketball arena downtown on the riverfront. With price and amenities, the facility will be better than almost any current NBA arena--yet it is being built for University of Louisville. There is still a chance an NBA team could locate here, but they most likely would not want to share an arena with a college team who has:

1) scheduling priority

2) sick amounts of revenue streams including the right to lease and operate 72 luxury suites.

Can you think of any college facility in the country with 72 luxury suites???

[Lexy]

Haha, I think Birmingham would support one too. I definitely would. But, they'd get more support without Bama and Awburn. Though I'd rather have Bama than have an NFL and lose Bama.

About Tennessee, Tenn. only has one really good college team, so, they have more room for an NFL. The also have an extra 1,000,000 people to boot. So, yea.

College and NFL are two totally different beast. If it can work here (Nashville), it can work just about anywhere. The Titans have their waiting list no doubt, but even UT plays a home game here in Nashville every year. And the same people go to Knoxville to see the Vols and go the Vandy to see them, that go to the Titans game on Sunday. It's all in a matter of corporate money and metro income/size. Not to mention TV marketability plays a HUGE role in it too. That goes for any major league team. Whether its hockey or football.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Huh? I can't think of any way B'ham is "ahead" of Louisville. Louisville is a bigger city, metro, CSA, and much larger Urban Area. Louisville has more economic importance and more big business and money. Birmingham has never had an attempt at major pro sports. Louisville had an original MLB baseball team in the 1890's and an ABA basketball team that could have gone to the NBA like the Spurs and Pacers in the 1970's--the owner fumbled that deal. Just within the last 5 years, the Grizz, Rockets and Hornets considered Louisville in PUBLISHED reports. I have never seen an NFL owner mention Birmingham as a possible relocation choice--all the talk about the NFL in B'ham is being generated by a few local guys and local media. In fact, the Hornets had a SIGNED letter of intent to locate in Louisville in 2001 on condition that the city would help construct a new arena. There was no mayoral leadership and it didn't happen.

Oh lord yes you are SOOOO correct. Cause we all know that Birmingham's 1,170,000 metro pop doesn't even COMPARE to Louisville's 1,208,000 metro pop. Dang, I am soooo sorry. And we all know, Birmingham doesn't matter economically, it's JUST the seventh largest banking center in the country. Oh, and of course, just because Birmingham is in Alabama, it must be dirt poor, and no money base whatsoever. You're also SOOOO right about no major league team trying in Birmingham, those past 6 that tried in Birmingham, you know they dont' even count.

Bizjournals Sports Market Ratings

In 2003, the total personal income was 48.1 Billion for Birmingham, Louisville only has 45.8 Billion personal income. Both Birmingham and Louisville could support Hockey, Basketball, and Football. But, Birmingham could more support Baseball than Louisville.

Please do research next time. I may be 17, and from Alabama, but I knew what I was talken about.

[ppassafi]

Oh lord yes you are SOOOO correct. Cause we all know that Birmingham's 1,170,000 metro pop doesn't even COMPARE to Louisville's 1,208,000 metro pop. Dang, I am soooo sorry. And we all know, Birmingham doesn't matter economically, it's JUST the seventh largest banking center in the country. Oh, and of course, just because Birmingham is in Alabama, it must be dirt poor, and no money base whatsoever. You're also SOOOO right about no major league team trying in Birmingham, those past 6 that tried in Birmingham, you know they dont' even count.

Bizjournals Sports Market Ratings

In 2003, the total personal income was 48.1 Billion for Birmingham, Louisville only has 45.8 Billion personal income. Both Birmingham and Louisville could support Hockey, Basketball, and Football. But, Birmingham could more support Baseball than Louisville.

Please do research next time. I may be 17, and from Alabama, but I knew what I was talken about.

Watch your sources, kid. Bizjournals is a local booster and displays boosterism not unlike you. You padded the Ham's metro. Here are the 2005 CENSUS estimates from the US CENSUS:

13820,,"Birmingham-Hoover, AL",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,090,126"

31140,,"Louisville-Jefferson County, KY-IN",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,208,452

The MSA difference between Louisville and Birmingham is small but significant as a percentage as Louisville is over 10% bigger in Metro.

HOWEVER, it is in URBAN AREA where Louisville is significantly larger than the Ham, as I said:

pop sq miles density

Birmingham, AL 663,615 55 392.10 41 1,692.5

Louisville, KY--IN 863,582 44 391.30 42 2,207.0

As you can see, Louisville urban area crushes Birmingham's. They cover the same area but Louisville's urban area is twice as dense. This means there are SIGNIFICANTLY more people within a particular radius of downtown Louisville than downtown Birmingham. Louisville is an older, denser, city than Birmingham, and has always been more important in the South.

Birmigham is no slacker, and ultimately I think Birmingham and Louisville are similar, but certainly Louisville is and feels larger than the Ham-significantly so.

Furthermore, I dont know where you go that GMP, but its way off. Here are the fact from the US conference of mayors:

GMP 2001

Louisville 40.25 million

Birmingham 33.77 million

http://www.usmayors.org/70thAnnualMeeting/...op100Metros.pdf

Face it, Louisville is a bigger and more important metro than Birmingham with more money and would get pro sports first barring all other variables. But there are alot of variables, and Birmingham and Louisville are ultimately mid sized metros that compete with one another. By comparison, Nashville has a larger metro than Louisville and higher GMP, but a smaller Urban Area. The difference between metro Nashville and metro Louisville is small but significant, and it shows in the GMP. But ultimately, with metros between 1-1.5 million and varying urban cores with Louisville being larger and older, the three cities still compete.....but you cannot make up stats!

Class dismissed.

[Rardy]

Watch your sources, kid. Bizjournals is a local booster and displays boosterism not unlike you. You padded the Ham's metro. Here are the 2005 CENSUS estimates from the US CENSUS:

13820,,"Birmingham-Hoover, AL",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,090,126"

31140,,"Louisville-Jefferson County, KY-IN",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,208,452

The MSA difference between Louisville and Birmingham is small but significant as a percentage as Louisville is over 10% bigger in Metro.

HOWEVER, it is in URBAN AREA where Louisville is significantly larger than the Ham, as I said:

pop sq miles density

Birmingham, AL 663,615 55 392.10 41 1,692.5

Louisville, KY--IN 863,582 44 391.30 42 2,207.0

As you can see, Louisville urban area crushes Birmingham's. They cover the same area but Louisville's urban area is twice as dense. This means there are SIGNIFICANTLY more people within a particular radius of downtown Louisville than downtown Birmingham. Louisville is an older, denser, city than Birmingham, and has always been more important in the South.

Birmigham is no slacker, and ultimately I think Birmingham and Louisville are similar, but certainly Louisville is and feels larger than the Ham-significantly so.

Furthermore, I dont know where you go that GMP, but its way off. Here are the fact from the US conference of mayors:

GMP 2001

Louisville 40.25 million

Birmingham 33.77 million

http://www.usmayors.org/70thAnnualMeeting/...op100Metros.pdf

Face it, Louisville is a bigger and more important metro than Birmingham with more money and would get pro sports first barring all other variables. But there are alot of variables, and Birmingham and Louisville are ultimately mid sized metros that compete with one another. By comparison, Nashville has a larger metro than Louisville and higher GMP, but a smaller Urban Area. The difference between metro Nashville and metro Louisville is small but significant, and it shows in the GMP. But ultimately, with metros between 1-1.5 million and varying urban cores with Louisville being larger and older, the three cities still compete.....but you cannot make up stats!

Class dismissed.

Don't forget that Louisville is a river city and Birmingham is not. River cities, like Memphis and Louisville, have downtowns at one end of the city. That's why L'ville has a more dense core...it has to because the river cuts it off. B'ham, on the other hand, has a relatively centralized downtown, allowing the "denseness" to disperse gradually. Professional sports teams are concerned about market size, not how dense the urban core is.

And I'm sorry, I don't see Louisville ever getting a professional sports team. Its proximity to Cinci, Nashville, and St. Louis will keep the teams away. It also lacks population growth which is an important factor.

[cashville]

The problem with Louisville is messed up local politics, they wont spend $250 million on an arena for an NBA team that will have 40+ home games a year, but will spend $450 million on an arena for an NCAA team that will only play 20 home games a year.

The TV market wont be that big a deal since Lexington will be packaged in for an NBA team, the Lexington market is ranked somewhere in the 60's and had almost 500,000 households.

Memphis is as close to Nashville and St. Loius as Lousiville is so those 2 markets arent the problem, the 2 markets that may be a problem would be Cincinnati and Indianapolis. And I only think they would be a problem for NFL and MLB, but as has been discussed earlier the MLB is a longshot any way. The Pacers are the only NBA team that is close, but they really arent in the Louisville market. Sure their are some Pacers fans, but many would probably convert to a Louisville NBA fan if a team ever came. If anything it would become a great rivalry like they were in the ABA days.

I actually think that being close to Cincy may actually help in this since their are aver 400,000 people in the NKY portion of the metro that dont have an NBA team to root for, the drive is only about an hour and a half max, which is about the distance from Lexington to Louisville so a team could easily market and sell tickets in those areas. There were talks 5-10 years ago of building an arena in NKY in hopes of attracting an NBA or NHL team, but for some reason those talks fizzled out.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Watch your sources, kid. Bizjournals is a local booster and displays boosterism not unlike you. You padded the Ham's metro. Here are the 2005 CENSUS estimates from the US CENSUS:

13820,,"Birmingham-Hoover, AL",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,090,126"

31140,,"Louisville-Jefferson County, KY-IN",Metropolitan Statistical Area,"1,208,452

The MSA difference between Louisville and Birmingham is small but significant as a percentage as Louisville is over 10% bigger in Metro.

HOWEVER, it is in URBAN AREA where Louisville is significantly larger than the Ham, as I said:

pop sq miles density

Birmingham, AL 663,615 55 392.10 41 1,692.5

Louisville, KY--IN 863,582 44 391.30 42 2,207.0

As you can see, Louisville urban area crushes Birmingham's. They cover the same area but Louisville's urban area is twice as dense. This means there are SIGNIFICANTLY more people within a particular radius of downtown Louisville than downtown Birmingham. Louisville is an older, denser, city than Birmingham, and has always been more important in the South.

Birmigham is no slacker, and ultimately I think Birmingham and Louisville are similar, but certainly Louisville is and feels larger than the Ham-significantly so.

Furthermore, I dont know where you go that GMP, but its way off. Here are the fact from the US conference of mayors:

GMP 2001

Louisville 40.25 million

Birmingham 33.77 million

http://www.usmayors.org/70thAnnualMeeting/...op100Metros.pdf

Face it, Louisville is a bigger and more important metro than Birmingham with more money and would get pro sports first barring all other variables. But there are alot of variables, and Birmingham and Louisville are ultimately mid sized metros that compete with one another. By comparison, Nashville has a larger metro than Louisville and higher GMP, but a smaller Urban Area. The difference between metro Nashville and metro Louisville is small but significant, and it shows in the GMP. But ultimately, with metros between 1-1.5 million and varying urban cores with Louisville being larger and older, the three cities still compete.....but you cannot make up stats!

Class dismissed.

I don't believe it was just the bizzjournals, I remember seeing it in the Birmingham News a while back, they figure they gave was slightly higher. As for me padding the population, I was using the Combined SA, sorry. I thought that the figure for the population from Louisville's was also Combined SA.

I also did not make up the stats. Unless I actually see it somewhere, I probably won't post it, unless it's like widely accepted by the public to be true. But, still you can say that one metro is more important than another. Both of us are naturally going to think that that the metro in our own state is better. Let's just both accept that both of them are great important places, and be done with it.

[Rural King]

^ So with that, let the B-Ham vs. Louisville conversation cease please.

Thanks.

[ppassafi]

Don't forget that Louisville is a river city and Birmingham is not. River cities, like Memphis and Louisville, have downtowns at one end of the city. That's why L'ville has a more dense core...it has to because the river cuts it off. B'ham, on the other hand, has a relatively centralized downtown, allowing the "denseness" to disperse gradually. Professional sports teams are concerned about market size, not how dense the urban core is.

And I'm sorry, I don't see Louisville ever getting a professional sports team. Its proximity to Cinci, Nashville, and St. Louis will keep the teams away. It also lacks population growth which is an important factor.

Couple corrections before I quit. First, I am not just talking about a "dense downtown." Look up the definition of Urban Area. The fact is, Louisville has a significant population within a 20 minute drive of downtown (and thus an arena) and that DOES affect its ability to support an NBA franchise.

Louisville will break ground on the nation's premiere basketball facility next Spring. The site work will take awhile but they hope to have it open by 2010. How could you possibly rule out the NBA or NHL here knowing that?

Furthermore, how can you say Louisville "lacks population growth?" Sure, it lacks the MSA sprawl of areas like Charlotte, but growth in Louisville is certainly right on par with metros like Memphis and Birmingham when it comes to growth and maybe slightly behind Richmond.

I do not know why there is this perception of Louisville being stagnant in population...we are no Buffalo or Cincinnati. At the same time, we are no Charlotte or Atlanta....we are right in between, and growing at a healthy rate with a focus on infill development in the core county.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

I do not know why there is this perception of Louisville being stagnant in population...we are no Buffalo or Cincinnati. At the same time, we are no Charlotte or Atlanta....we are right in between, and growing at a healthy rate with a focus on infill development in the core county.

I agree, Louisville's population isn't stagnant at all. Not many metros in the South are. Some grow fast than others, some grow slower. Some plan better than others, some don't. But Louisville is growing at a healthy rate. I don't know how the planning is in Louisville, so I won't comment on that. But at it's rate, it should be able to control the way it grows. Huntsville's metro area is able to do that, hopefully Louisville can.

[bw87a]

if i'm not mistaken, i read an article when the hornets were considering a move here, that they were willing to let louisville have first scheduling priorities.

[Rural King]

^I haven't heard anything about that yet. I now OKC really is wanting to land the Hornets if they move, esp. after they hosted the team after Katrina.

It seems like Louisville would be a logical choice since it could form quick natural rivalries with Indy and Memphis. However, I have heard it said though by many folks that KY is a collegiate sports state, thus any pro-sports franchise would have a hard go - at least at first. I don't know to what degree that would hold true though.