Who do we like for Governor?

[snoogit]

Snoogit, I agree with almost all of your assessment except maybe part of your reason in opposition to DeVos in #1. You seem to backtrack. First you say that business experience means very little in running a state, which I completely agree with. Then, you make issue of him running badly Amway, as if it matters. It either matters or it doesn't. And, how much weight do you want to put on the changing market for the decline of direct marketing? I'd put alot more on the change of the market.

I do say Business experience means nothing to me. But when a businessman comes in and runs as a canidate, unfortunately its the only experience that I as a voter can draw experience on. Even though my own bias does creep in when evaluating it.

Its a double standard, but unfortunately its all I've got.

[snoogit]

But why would the labor force go up that much in a state that has no jobs (high unemployment)?

I'll bet Governor DeVos will figure it out.

I saw some stats in GR which something like 3,000 jobs were added in April, but unemployment went up .2% The only explaination is a population increase.

[GRDadof3]

But why would the labor force go up that much in a state that has no jobs (high unemployment)?

I'll bet Governor DeVos will figure it out.

The labor force in Michigan did go up from 2003 - 2006 by about 40,000 people. As snoogit said, either it's because the population is increasing, or people who had dropped out of the labor force (perpetually unemployed) have re-entered the job search again.

If I worked in the Econ Dev office, I'd keep my eye on "labor force growth", "employment growth" and "income growth". As long as all were growing healthily, having an unemployment rate between 5 - 7% would be acceptable, as long as it was either holding steady or maybe even steadily declining. 5 - 7% is basically "full employment", but of course the press doesn't understand that and keeps comparing just the unemployment rate of MI to other States.

[GaryP]

I wondered if the board's leaning had changed since February and it looks like has. We'll have to do another poll closer to the election.

[torgo]

Jennifer Granholm knows how to handle the government. She has government experience.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[snoogit]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

In my short-term experience of being able to vote, its been a good thing.

[gvsusean]

I saw some stats in GR which something like 3,000 jobs were added in April, but unemployment went up .2% The only explaination is a population increase.

that or more people are looking for jobs because they see that the economy is getting better. unemployment is measured by how many people are LOOKING for a job, ergo no one looking is 0 unemployment

[GR_Urbanist]

If all you can do is name-call, and stereotype, then please don't join in on this discussion.

Excuse me?

#1) The quote "uneducated factory workers" are based on terms that are routinely tossed about on this site to describe people that are not part of the new young professional class. I dont call them that since, if you read my previous post, MY PARENTS and work at factories. I dont consider them that nor my sisters whom also work at factories, my uncles, several aunts and many cousins. And yes those Union factory workers make up the base of the Democrat party in Michigan. That is not a stereotype, The DNC themselves will tell you the same thing!

#2) If you want to go on a real crususde against people using stereotypes and name calling, you only need to go through this thread and read all the post calling republicans/conservatives/christians all sorts of names and using all sorts of stereotypes.

[GRDadof3]

Excuse me?

#1) The quote "uneducated factory workers" are based on terms that are routinely tossed about on this site to describe people that are not part of the new young professional class. I dont call them that since, if you read my previous post, MY PARENTS and work at factories. I dont consider them that nor my sisters whom also work at factories, my uncles, several aunts and many cousins. And yes those Union factory workers make up the base of the Democrat party in Michigan. That is not a stereotype, The DNC themselves will tell you the same thing!

#2) If you want to go on a real crususde against people using stereotypes and name calling, you only need to go through this thread and read all the post calling republicans/conservatives/christians all sorts of names and using all sorts of stereotypes.

I went back through and found no such posts. If there are posts that violate the rules of the forum, please report them instead of stewing about them.

[GR_Urbanist]

I'm waiting for Dick Devos to come out and call himself a Republican

He still hasn't come out and outright said it (although you'd have to be under a rock not to know it) Why is he hiding this seemingly innocent fact?

Top three Jennifer Granholm is better:

#1: She has shown she is more willing to be patient, and has worked with a congress that has done everything but throw the kitchen sink at her to discredit, and derail her initiatives, it took a strong public outcry to get the state congress to move on the issues.

Short Answer: I put more of the blame on the state congress.

#2: Jennifer Granholm has only been given ONE term to fix the mess that John Engler and the GOP controlled congress left behind. A mess that included short-term fixes, and patchwork lawmaking to hold up what was already a failing economy 10 years prior.

Short Answer: We gave Engler 12 years to screw things up, can we possibly think Jennifer Granholm can fix it in four?

#3: Jennifer Granholm knows how to handle the government. She has government experience. If I were hiring someone to be a chef, I wouldn't hire a carpenter. I look at Dick Devos like I would look at a Carpenter applying to be a chef, theres no experience there! Business experience does not equal public policy experience, all the history has shown that the way you run a business, and the way you run the state are two different experiences. Neither one are as compatable as the business-owners would like you to believe.

Short Answer: I trust someone who has been in government, and knows how it works.

Top three why Dick Devos would be bad for Michigan:

#1: Devos does not have a good history in business. If I were a businessman I would make sure that the business I was leaving would be one of the best run organizations in the world after I left. Devos left Alticor/Amway after one of its least profitable, and worst periods in its history. When Dick Devos was at Amway, 1,300 jobs were lost. Why would I want someone who nearly took their company into the ground running my state? While we can never fully understand why Amway started tanking when Dick took over, (due to being a private entity) What we can see from the outside never looked all that great.

Short Answer: Devos nearly killed Amway, cutting 1,300 jobs while there.

#2: If there was a term, lets take it from the 2004 presidential campaign to describe Devos, I would have to say it would be "flip-flop" Devos's opinion, and his ideas seem to change right along with the public. "Its cool to bash President Bush? I'll bash him too!" "I criticize Jennifer Granholm for running negative ads? (which I never saw) a few weeks later: I'll run my own nagative ads!, but they will look like "person on the street" (Even if its only Holland)"

Short Answer: Devos is a "flip-flop"

#3: I mentioned it at the beginning of my post, but I'll elaborate: Devos can't level with the people. If a canidate is so afraid to even announce his party in his politcal ads, what does that say about someone's leadership skills? This one tactic alone give me an impression that he would never be truthful enough with the public to ever gain the people's trust. It will come to the debates, where I hope he is asked questions about his stance on school vouchers, and his performance while at Amway (dreadful) If he can actually show he can level with the people, he wont win me over, but he would at least dispell some of my concerns if he does indeed end up winning the election.

Short Answer: I just don't feel like I could trust Devos to do whats right for Michigan.

First of all, I don

[GR_Urbanist]

I went back through and found no such posts. If there are posts that violate the rules of the forum, please report them instead of stewing about them.

You are right about this thread. I meant to say the sub-fourm in general. Not that I care so much that people say those things. Im just saying they are there.

However, I still do not know how my original post even came close to violating any rules?

[GRDadof3]

You are right about this thread. I meant to say the sub-fourm in general. Not that I care so much that people say those things. Im just saying they are there.

However, I still do not know how my original post even came close to violating any rules?

It didn't, as far as I can tell. Just trying to get clarification on your statement, since I didn't see anything in the thread.

Back to the debate.

[Veloise]

When do the polls close?

[civitas]

The labor force in Michigan did go up from 2003 - 2006 by about 40,000 people. As snoogit said, either it's because the population is increasing, or people who had dropped out of the labor force (perpetually unemployed) have re-entered the job search again.

If I worked in the Econ Dev office, I'd keep my eye on "labor force growth", "employment growth" and "income growth". As long as all were growing healthily, having an unemployment rate between 5 - 7% would be acceptable, as long as it was either holding steady or maybe even steadily declining. 5 - 7% is basically "full employment", but of course the press doesn't understand that and keeps comparing just the unemployment rate of MI to other States.

I just had a beer (or more) with an ex-state representative. He explained that the labor force goes up this time each year with every high school graduating class and the unemployment goes us this time every year because of temporary auto related layoffs.

[GRDadof3]

I just had a beer (or more) with an ex-state representative. He explained that the labor force goes up this time each year with every high school graduating class and the unemployment goes us this time every year because of temporary auto related layoffs.

Interesting. Here's another strange chart. This is "Government" related employment in Grand Rapids (kinda looks like a heart monitor). For some reason, it dips by about 5000 every July and August, which would cause unemployment to go up in those months as well. Anyone know what this is about? There's a separate classification for "Education and Health Service", so I can't imagine it's teachers..

[gvsusean]

Interesting. Here's another strange chart. This is "Government" related employment in Grand Rapids (kinda looks like a heart monitor). For some reason, it dips by about 5000 every July and August, which would cause unemployment to go up in those months as well. Anyone know what this is about? There's a separate classification for "Education and Health Service", so I can't imagine it's teachers..

seasonal employees i.e. park rangers, summer programs, the pools, extra security for events???

[GRDadof3]

seasonal employees i.e. park rangers, summer programs, the pools, extra security for events???

No, the chart shows that government employment DROPS during the Summer.

[gvsusean]

No, the chart shows that government employment DROPS during the Summer.

whne i worked for the city of wyoming rec dept. the season ended at the end of july???? so did other programs

[Veloise]

Interesting. Here's another strange chart. This is "Government" related employment in Grand Rapids (kinda looks like a heart monitor). For some reason, it dips by about 5000 every July and August, which would cause unemployment to go up in those months as well. Anyone know what this is about? There's a separate classification for "Education and Health Service", so I can't imagine it's teachers..

[chart]

Was thinking about this yesterday. Could it be people employed by state universities but not involved in teaching? (Last week the Lansing paper ran a piece that said MSU would be Michigan's nth largest city.) All those dorm custodians, food service workers, etc. who work for "the government" but who aren't needed in the summer.

Jeff, when I stumble across some baffling stat like this, I've had decent luck getting clarification from the proponents; usually they're happy to reply to the real world. Give it a try!

[GRDadof3]

Jeff, when I stumble across some baffling stat like this, I've had decent luck getting clarification from the proponents; usually they're happy to reply to the real world. Give it a try!

Proponents of what? The actual Bureau of Labor Statistics?

[Veloise]

Proponents of what? The actual Bureau of Labor Statistics?

Ask 'em!

A few years back I saw some stats on Greenfield Village, Mackinac Island, Frankenmuth et al. Came from a tourism study department at MSU. I asked one question. In short order my (snail) mailbox was filled with documents reports studies and more. Someone was r-e-a-l-l-y happy to share all the department's data! (This was in the dark ages before e-mail.)

You are likely to (eventually) reach someone who will provide a breakdown, and might even run a few more charts for you.

[michaelskis]

I question some of those stats. For example, unemployment is not measured correctly. A person is "Unemployed" only if they don't have a job, but are actively looking for one. If a person says that they are not looking for one, they fall into the same group as retired persons.

In a realistic terms of quality of life issues, a Governor can have far more of an impact on getting things done, quick action, and controlling factors such as education, police forces, transportation, and many other government aspects.

Since Michigan has and is continuing to fall behind other states in the US, it shows that it is time for a new Governor.

Maybe someone can explain how Grandholm is not responsible for the issues with education in our state? Education and its funding is a state and local function and not a federal one.

[civitas]

Maybe someone can explain how Grandholm is not responsible for the issues with education in our state? Education and its funding is a state and local function and not a federal one.

There is a clear connection between public education, labor unions and the democratic party. I doubt very much that a Democrat could ever advocate for structural changes in public education given their strong union ties.

[GRobserver]

Maybe someone can explain how Grandholm is not responsible for the issues with education in our state? Education and its funding is a state and local function and not a federal one.

Discussing the importance of education and misspelling the Governor's name at the same time?

The irony of this is too juicy to ignore.

[GRDadof3]

I question some of those stats. For example, unemployment is not measured correctly. A person is "Unemployed" only if they don't have a job, but are actively looking for one. If a person says that they are not looking for one, they fall into the same group as retired persons.

That's always how unemployment has been measured. As long as they are using the same benchmark measurables today as 10/20/30 years ago, I don't see what the problem is. Should we count people who are not working and have decided not to look for work? Should we then count children under the age of 16? Don't have a babysitting gig lined up? You're umemployed sister.