WNBA Team is Coming to Rogers!!!!!

[KJW]

Exactly. There are plenty of other metros that have a bigger population and tv market than we do and don't have a major sport. I'm not trying to say going after a WNBA team is a waste of time. Even if we couldn't hold a team for a very long time I still think there could be some nice advantages. Get our area out there and such.

Meanwhile, while we're debating the size of this TV market (I wonder what it is now in terms of real population? Green Bay-Appleton is currently #69.) the Morning News (which didn't seem to touch the original WNBA story) is reporting:

"We're coming. Oh boy, we're coming," said Chris Talley, one of 13 investors who own 50 acres -- and soon could own another 40 acres -- off Arkansas 12 and Old Farm Road to develop and build an arena for an estimated $50 million.

Talley on Friday talked with city leaders and officials of the National Basketball Association and the Women's National Basketball Association in Detroit about the project.

"We had a really frank 2 1/2 hour discussion about the real possibility of the WNBA expanding in Northwest Arkansas," said Talley by telephone that afternoon. "We couldn't ask for a better meeting, and better progress in securing sport's future in Northwest Arkansas and the region."

Talks come at a time when the Women's National Basketball Association is celebrating its 10th anniversary. "Any teams we bring in would be expansion teams," or franchise teams, Talley said.

and;

"They were well aware of the rapid growth in the area, and the number of businesses and vendors for Wal-Mart and so on; and they are well acquainted with what's happening in Northwest Arkansas, and they want to get in on it," (Bentonville Mayor Terry) Coberly said by phone.

and;

The 35-year-old Talley expects growth to flourish all the more when a women's basketball team settles in at the future arena.

Talley was born and reared in Bentonville, and said, "That's where we are going to plant our tree. The whole region will actually grow around us."

Let's set aside the tone of this last comment for a moment. I feel another thread coming on...

[masons_dad1]

Exactly. There are plenty of other metros that have a bigger population and tv market than we do and don't have a major sport. I'm not trying to say going after a WNBA team is a waste of time. Even if we couldn't hold a team for a very long time I still think there could be some nice advantages. Get our area out there and such.

True and even if the WNBA was to fold it would reflect badly on NWA unless it was just the NWA team that folded.

[mcheiss]

I saw that article KJW, I was quite suprised NBA officials would say that.

Of course, I'm still waiting on something official, like a contract and public announcement from NBA officials before I get my hopes up.

[KJW]

Ya'll have got me thinking.

What if a major league sports team (such as one from the WNBA, if they come), whose lifeblood is going to be pumped via local television, would be able to build a dual Fayetteville-Fort Smith/Little Rock DMA TV coalition for programming / advertising? You know that, say, the Green Bay Packers have such an arrangement utilizing both the Green Bay-Appleton and Milwaukee DMAs. (Probably other ones in the state of Wisconsin, too.)

Little Rock is currently the #57 DMA, with Fayetteville-Fort Smith (before the 2006 special census numbers are tallied by Nielsen) at #104. Now, we've had our threads on how there's some competition between LR and NWA. However, I just wonder if (especially given that such a team would probably be called the "Arkansas ...") there could be dual marketing efforts in both DMAs for any such team, almost assuredly the only one in the state. That could make for a lot of TV sets reached each broadcast.

"But KJW, why haven't other states with (at the time) more population than Arkansas, had such efforts? Why haven't, say, Kentucky (with Louisville and Lexington) or Alabama (with Birmingham and Montgomery or Huntsville or both) had pro teams in such a way?"

I'm not sure...but I know this...neither Alabama nor Kentucky (nor Wisconsin, for that matter) have the Fortune 100 clout that Arkansas does via NWA. Little Rock and Bentonville/Fayetteville are both in the LR major trading area, and are joined at the hip in many ways.

And if somehow any NWA major market team is able to build an NWA (FSM/FAY) - LR media coalition, this may be very tempting indeed for some, and may be a reason why WNBA officials are looking intently at this area.

[Mith242]

Interesting, but I think it's easier said than done. Aside from the Razorbacks I just don't think the two markets are linked very much. How much do you ever hear about any of the Little Rock sports teams up here? I also would imagine that the Little Rock wouldn't cover any sports other than the Razorbacks up here either. I know the Memphis NBA team went for a regional appeal and at the beginning at least tried to get people from eastern Arkansas interested. I think even all the way over to Little Rock. I don't know if they make as much of an effort anymore. If we ever were able to pull something off like this I also think people should know it's Little Rock that's got the best chance of a team and then it would be up to people up here in NWA to support it.

[KJW]

Interesting, but I think it's easier said than done. Aside from the Razorbacks I just don't think the two markets are linked very much. How much do you ever hear about any of the Little Rock sports teams up here? I also would imagine that the Little Rock wouldn't cover any sports other than the Razorbacks up here either. I know the Memphis NBA team went for a regional appeal and at the beginning at least tried to get people from eastern Arkansas interested. I think even all the way over to Little Rock. I don't know if they make as much of an effort anymore. If we ever were able to pull something off like this I also think people should know it's Little Rock that's got the best chance of a team and then it would be up to people up here in NWA to support it.

Mith,

Indeed...the folks at the Travelerocity (Arkansas Travelers bb team) blog complain that the LR media covers NWA/U of A sports first, then Little Rock stuff second.

I don't know, like you, whether it could be pulled off, but given the strange dynamics of this market (the Fortune 100 presences, the highest non-African American minority populations in the state, the (current) most visible sports presence in the state) it would seem to make sense why certain entities as the WNBA are looking at NWA...but it also seems that building a statewide regional media coalition, or at least an NWA/LR one, would make sense.

We talked the other day about how KARK/KATV were opening up joint branch offices in NWA to cover Razorback sports. These arena investors weren't born yesterday and know that it would take a lot to catch lightning in a bottle more than once as far as building statewide or near-statewide interest in an athletic team other than the Razorbacks.

I've a question to you there in north/east/west Texas.

The Dallas/Fort Worth major trading area takes in all or part of the following TV markets: D/FW, Sherman-Ardmore (OK), Tyler-Lufkin-Longview, Shreveport (LA) (Texarkana), Waco, Austin, Wichita Falls-Lawton (OK), Amarillo, Lubbock, Midland-Odessa, San Angelo, Abilene and Monroe (LA) - El Dorado (AR).

We know about the appeal of the Cowboys. However, to you who've lived in those areas, do the Cowboys, Mavericks, Stars and/or Rangers have a TV presence in any of those markets (save possibly Monroe-El Dorado)?

[Mith242]

Mith,

Indeed...the folks at the Travelerocity (Arkansas Travelers bb team) blog complain that the LR media covers NWA/U of A sports first, then Little Rock stuff second.

I don't know, like you, whether it could be pulled off, but given the strange dynamics of this market (the Fortune 100 presences, the highest non-African American minority populations in the state, the (current) most visible sports presence in the state) it would seem to make sense why certain entities as the WNBA are looking at NWA...but it also seems that building a statewide regional media coalition, or at least an NWA/LR one, would make sense.

We talked the other day about how KARK/KATV were opening up joint branch offices in NWA to cover Razorback sports. These arena investors weren't born yesterday and know that it would take a lot to catch lightning in a bottle more than once as far as building statewide or near-statewide interest in an athletic team other than the Razorbacks.

Yeah all of this of course stems in the odd fact that the Razorbacks have statewide appeal. Not too many states have that in just one single university team. But that would obviously be a good thing to use in trying to promote some sort of Little Rock/NWA themed tv market. With those two being the two main urban areas in the state. Might be interesting to have some sort of tv station try to make some sort of news focusing more on 'urban' events in these two metros.

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah all of this of course stems in the odd fact that the Razorbacks have statewide appeal. Not too many states have that in just one single university team. But that would obviously be a good thing to use in trying to promote some sort of Little Rock/NWA themed tv market. With those two being the two main urban areas in the state. Might be interesting to have some sort of tv station try to make some sort of news focusing more on 'urban' events in these two metros.

Belo media and other companies have cable networks that cover statewide news, such as the Texas Cable Network. Tennessee has one as well. The problem is that really we only have two full-service media markets - LR and NWA. All it could really do is show news items from both of these markets and spice it up a bit with Jonesboro's KAIT news. Monroe, Shreveport, and Memphis media hit parts of our state. That model works well in Texas and Tennessee with multiple large media markets but I can't really see it working here.

As for the pro sports franchise idea, I don't think it will work. The distance between LR and NWA is too great and really the area is closer to Tulsa and Springfield. If a pro team made it into the area it would go to Tulsa but really OKC is a better target marget and even it's marginal at best.

The statewide appeal of UA is tied in closely to the fact that it is the only flagship school and that UA alumni dominate Central Arkansas. Plus, those who grow up in the LR TV market are inundated with UA sports from birth - it dominates local sports coverage. That just breeds generation after generation of die hard fans. Were this a two university state like MS, Iowa, Oklahoma, etc the "fair" coverage would've kept the fan base in Central Ark from being so loyal. As it is, though, they are just as loyal as the fan base in NWA.

[mcheiss]

According to an article in NWAnews.com, NBA officials are going to visit the area in October to get their final opinion on the potential league.

[Mith242]

According to an article in NWAnews.com, NBA officials are going to visit the area in October to get their final opinion on the potential league.

Cool, things still might not work out but still interesting to see them following up on this.

[jdevers]

If a pro team made it into the area it would go to Tulsa but really OKC is a better target marget and even it's marginal at best.

Firstly, let me thank you for bringing some rationality to this conversation. Secondly, OKC has started the beginnings of bringing the Seattle Sonics to their fair city. Seattle still has about 10.5 months to negotiate a contract with the Sonics, but it isn't going to happen with the terms they (the OKC owners of the Sonics) set. Most people associated with the sport have pretty much already decided that the Sonics will move, play in the Ford Center just like the Hornets have since Katrina, and call it their new home. The only big question that remains is what will they change their name to...OKC doesn't have quite the aerospace presence as Seattle, so the Supersonics might not be the greatest of names.

[KJW]

Firstly, let me thank you for bringing some rationality to this conversation. Secondly, OKC has started the beginnings of bringing the Seattle Sonics to their fair city. Seattle still has about 10.5 months to negotiate a contract with the Sonics, but it isn't going to happen with the terms they (the OKC owners of the Sonics) set. Most people associated with the sport have pretty much already decided that the Sonics will move, play in the Ford Center just like the Hornets have since Katrina, and call it their new home. The only big question that remains is what will they change their name to...OKC doesn't have quite the aerospace presence as Seattle, so the Supersonics might not be the greatest of names.

jdevers, and then we look at the revenue of Oklahoma's Fortune 500 companies ($55,260,000,000) and contrast that with the revenue from Arkansas' counterparts ($375,727,000,000)...that's nearly seven times the Sooner State amount.

Folks, we're in uncharted territory here. I guarantee that the WNBA folks know that, too, but with that potful of money staring people in the face people are seeing what's going on here and ideas are dancing in their heads.

Here's another thing, piggybacking (no pun intended) off Mith's correct observation of the statewide appeal the Razorbacks have had. (And like I said earlier, these guys have to know it will be tough if not impossible to duplicate the Razorbacks statewide appeal.)

I know Oklahomans, like Arkansans, have historically had a strong sense of statewide community and identity.

And simultaneously, one could correctly surmise that, like LR and NWA, Oklahoma City and Tulsa have had quite a bit of in-state rivalry.

Yet Oklahoma sports allegiances are split. OU and Oklahoma State bisect that place. Not so with Arkansas. (I'm going to make another post in a minute on this...you guys always get me thinking.)

I still wouldn't be surprised if these guys think: "Hey, if we can get a truly 'major league' franchise here, we can get Arkansans across the state behind it. And if we can't get them across the state, we can at least get them in NWA and LR*...there's so much $$$$ and TV sets between those two places, and even though they're miles apart they're closer than they think."

* Again, going back to Rand McNally's major trading areas...east Arkansas roughly from Blytheville to Wynne south to Helena is in the Memphis MTA and has been for a long time. Fulton County (Salem, in north central Arkansas) is in the St. Louis MTA via West Plains, MO. Crossett (Drew County?) in southeast Arkansas, and the southwest chunk of the state between DeQueen, Nashville, Hope and Magnolia are in the Dallas/Fort Worth MTA. Everything else is Little Rock, almost exactly paralleling the NWA and Little Rock DMAs (plus the Arkansas-side Jonesboro DMA, and the Arkansas counties of the Springfield, MO DMA, one of which (Carroll) NWA is trying to get). Such a geographic LR/NWA media coalition would make sense, and indeed media coverage was one thing Rand McNally took into consideration when splitting the country into such designations.

[KJW]

Let's do a couple of other Fortune 500 comparisons:

Utah (home of the Jazz): $26,137,000,000. (Salt Lake City has a huge TV DMA, perhaps the biggest geographically in the nation, but lots of wide open spaces in that market.)

Louisiana (home of the Hornets): $22,297,000,000

Oregon (home of the TrailBlazers): $22,269,000,000

Now, you take the SLC (#36), New Orleans (#43) and Portland (#23) DMAs and they're significantly bigger than NWA (#104 prior to the new census numbers)...however, if you add (#54) Little Rock to that list you've got a significant media coalition, which makes me think any entity trying for an Arkansas "major league" sports player will try and forge such a coalition. Obviously, this area's not ready for the NFL and may never be even if Wal-Mart alone hits $1 trillion in sales.

However, for an expansion team that thinks it could successfully master an NWA/LR "statewide" joint presence, I think this region's darn well worth a look.

[jdevers]

jdevers, and then we look at the revenue of Oklahoma's Fortune 500 companies ($55,260,000,000) and contrast that with the revenue from Arkansas' counterparts ($375,727,000,000)...that's nearly seven times the Sooner State amount.

Folks, we're in uncharted territory here. I guarantee that the WNBA folks know that, too, but with that potful of money staring people in the face people are seeing what's going on here and ideas are dancing in their heads.

Here's another thing, piggybacking (no pun intended) off Mith's correct observation of the statewide appeal the Razorbacks have had. (And like I said earlier, these guys have to know it will be tough if not impossible to duplicate the Razorbacks statewide appeal.)

I know Oklahomans, like Arkansans, have historically had a strong sense of statewide community and identity.

And simultaneously, one could correctly surmise that, like LR and NWA, Oklahoma City and Tulsa have had quite a bit of in-state rivalry.

Yet Oklahoma sports allegiances are split. OU and Oklahoma State bisect that place. Not so with Arkansas. (I'm going to make another post in a minute on this...you guys always get me thinking.)

I still wouldn't be surprised if these guys think: "Hey, if we can get a truly 'major league' franchise here, we can get Arkansans across the state behind it. And if we can't get them across the state, we can at least get them in NWA and LR*...there's so much $$$$ and TV sets between those two places, and even though they're miles apart they're closer than they think."

* Again, going back to Rand McNally's major trading areas...east Arkansas roughly from Blytheville to Wynne south to Helena is in the Memphis MTA and has been for a long time. Fulton County (Salem, in north central Arkansas) is in the St. Louis MTA via West Plains, MO. Crossett (Drew County?) in southeast Arkansas, and the southwest chunk of the state between DeQueen, Nashville, Hope and Magnolia are in the Dallas/Fort Worth MTA. Everything else is Little Rock, almost exactly paralleling the NWA and Little Rock DMAs (plus the Arkansas-side Jonesboro DMA, and the Arkansas counties of the Springfield, MO DMA, one of which (Carroll) NWA is trying to get). Such a geographic LR/NWA media coalition would make sense, and indeed media coverage was one thing Rand McNally took into consideration when splitting the country into such designations.

Subtract Wal-Mart from that figure, not as impressive now is it? Do you think that WM is going to basically sponsor a team all by itself?

Here's something to remember about the Razorbacks, they DO have statewide appeal. They also have people in attendance from across the state and have for a long time. UAF is the flagship campus for the only real state university system we have, it would be goofy for half of the state to have kinship with another university. A pro team located here is just that though, a pro team located here. You realize that Memphis JUST got it's first pro team. Kansas City doesn't have an NBA team, New Orleans doesn't have a major league baseball team, and there are numerous other cities have have noticeably more population than us without one of the major sports. Corporate sponsorship is important, but a diverse corporate environment is far more important than just one or two big potential sponsors. Oh, and people to sit in the seats would be nice too. I'll be happy if the Wranglers do OK here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that while DMAs may mean a lot when selling advertising dollars, they don't mean much else. And the Rand McNally trading area thing doesn't really mean much of anything. Simply the designation of the city that most of the people in a particular area go to for their stuff, you don't automatically get some sort of prize for becoming one, in the modern world of global commerce, JIT manufacturing, electronic communication, etc the MTA thing doesn't mean nearly as much as it once did. In a way, this area is almost not a part of the Little Rock MTA, it does almost everything it needs for itself. But if you think this is unique in the country, you haven't travelled much. There are large, nearly self-sustaining cities in Texas that are part of one of the Dallas or Houston MTAs. You know that Austin, TX and Baton Rouge, LA aren't listed as MTAs, right? Oh, and Orlando, FL, San Diego, CA, Las Vegas, NV, and too many large NC cities to list. These are all areas that are larger than us, that have far more substantial international relationships than us, are more well known than us, etc, yet none of them have a complete set of pro sports teams. Several of them actually don't have ANY big league pro sports teams. Along the same lines, there are several cities which ARE MTAs that don't have a full complement of major league teams and several that don't have any at all. Cincinnati, OH has seven Fortune 500 companies (four of which are Fortune 100) inside it's borders and it has 2.1 million people but it doesn't have an NBA team.

I think that big thoughts are great, but this is stuff that just isn't going to happen. And if it DID happen because of some rich NWArkansan, it would fall on its face so quickly that we would become the laughing stock of the country. This is right up there with Disney building a park in Bella Vista.

[jdevers]

Adding the NWA and LR DMA numbers DOES move us up quite a bit, right up there with:

38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 751,930 0.682

39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 731,630 0.664

40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 716,520 0.650

41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 707,010 0.641

42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws

How many pro teams are in those cities again?

Hartford-New Haven CT are the 28th largest DMA in the country and THEY don't have any major league teams.

[KJW]

Subtract Wal-Mart from that figure, not as impressive now is it? Do you think that WM is going to basically sponsor a team all by itself?

jdevers, Tyson Foods by itself accounted for almost as much revenue as Utah's companies, and more than either Oregon's or Louisiana's.

Funny you should mention Hartford-New Haven...the WNBA's Connecticut Suns (the only "major league" team that's part of a casino?) are in the Hartford-New Haven DMA but in New London County on that state's southeast side away from either of those cities.

BTW, I've said before, we don't yet know the revised DMA figures for NWA.

I think Disney's wishful thinking (though I won't tell you about the people I've talked with since making any last post on that subject who've sworn up and down that Disney has indeed bought a ton of land in McDonald County) but who knows on this WNBA thing, especially since people here in Bentonville (including Mayor Coberly) have said that the league has an interest in talking with them.

[masons_dad1]

I have to agree with you, KJW, on this fact. You mention Wal-Mart and people automatically try to subtract Wal-Mart from the equation. The fact is Wal-Mart is equal to around 30 Fortune 500 Companies as a wild guess. Without subtracting Wal-Mart from the equation NWA has a powerful attraction to organizations looking for financial markets. Let alone the fact that each of the Walton family members is as wealthy as all of those OKC Fotune 500 Companies combined.

As for the DMA's and Razorbacks fans, I'll avoid those because I don't know enough about them, but I will say they are only part of NWA's attraction.

[Aporkalypse]

With all due respect, KJW, Fortune 500 companies don't really mean much in terms of locating new franchises unless they're providing ownership. The companies themselves don't put many butts in the seats, they may spring for a skybox or two. What major sports franchises care about are:

1) Population within a reasonable driving radius

2) Disposable income of said population

3) Size of TV market

4) Willingness to spend taxpayer money to construct an adequate facility

While we don't know about #4, we DO know that for the first 3 there are probably a 100 markets with an advantage over NWA.

[KJW]

With all due respect, KJW, Fortune 500 companies don't really mean much in terms of locating new franchises unless they're providing ownership. The companies themselves don't put many butts in the seats, they may spring for a skybox or two. What major sports franchises care about are:

1) Population within a reasonable driving radius

2) Disposable income of said population

3) Size of TV market

4) Willingness to spend taxpayer money to construct an adequate facility

While we don't know about #4, we DO know that for the first 3 there are probably a 100 markets with an advantage over NWA.

1. Aporkalypse, do you know what that reasonable radius is (i.e. 100 miles). (That brings to mind those stories of "A study showed that in x number of years there will be 1.5 - 2 million people within a 50 mile radius of the Rogers public library" stories that have been floating around NWA since 2002)

2. I'd think there's a lot of said income in that same radius right now, or else these Bentonville arena guys wouldn't be looking to do the "anti-Springdale" and build this complex on their own nickel, although they're trying to get the districting changed somehow according to the recent article.

3. Hey, jdevers, here's something (not saying it would happen) that could blow everyone's mind:

Benton County's bordered by three other DMA TV markets. What if they just junked the Little Rock idea and made media buys in the four (including NWA): NWA, Joplin-Pittsburg, Tulsa and Springfield. All cities are closer to Bentonville than Little Rock is.

Combined, those four would add up to a 1,300,000 TV home market, the equivalent of Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto (#19) or Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne(#20).

THAT media coalition would be a corker, wouldn't it...and it would indeed make even more geographic sense than the attempted "Arkansas (Little Rock)" coaltion.

4. Sounds like the arena guys aren't too much into that.

[jdevers]

4) Willingness to spend taxpayer money to construct an adequate facility

I would say with Springdale BARELY passing the vote on the stadium election, we have at least an idea of this one. While baseball stadiums are the most single use of the major sports stadiums, they are also the cheapest. I doubt many people around here would be happy to pay an extra percent or two in sales tax to be able to pay off a decent basketball arena or football stadium. I know that there is a private venture planning to go in Benton county, but they aren't exactly building an NBA quality or size facility. I think we are rapidly catching up with where we need to be in the world of pro sports...meaning that we are getting an ABA team, a AA baseball team, maybe an arena football team or something in Benton county etc. The Bulls, White Sox, or Bears aren't exactly thinking about relocating here...

To go over to the Fortune 500 list, right now two of the five largest companies in the US are located (with substantial local investments I might add) in possibly the worst city in the country to live, Detroit.

[Aporkalypse]

1. Aporkalypse, do you know what that reasonable radius is (i.e. 100 miles). (That brings to mind those stories of "A study showed that in x number of years there will be 1.5 - 2 million people within a 50 mile radius of the Rogers public library" stories that have been floating around NWA since 2002)

2. I'd think there's a lot of said income in that same radius right now, or else these Bentonville arena guys wouldn't be looking to do the "anti-Springdale" and build this complex on their own nickel, although they're trying to get the districting changed somehow according to the recent article.

3. Hey, jdevers, here's something (not saying it would happen) that could blow everyone's mind:

Benton County's bordered by three other DMA TV markets. What if they just junked the Little Rock idea and made media buys in the four (including NWA): NWA, Joplin-Pittsburg, Tulsa and Springfield. All cities are closer to Bentonville than Little Rock is.

Combined, those four would add up to a 1,300,000 TV home market, the equivalent of Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto (#19) or Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne(#20).

THAT media coalition would be a corker, wouldn't it...and it would indeed make even more geographic sense than the attempted "Arkansas (Little Rock)" coaltion.

4. Sounds like the arena guys aren't too much into that.

1. In x number of years things might be different. Right now, though, we're talking about a tiny population. There is no way NWA can compete with cities like Louisville, OKC, or Las Vegas for a new franchise with a population less than a third their size. Even cities nobody talks about getting pro franchises like Birmingham and West Palm Beach are well ahead.

2. Remember, while NWA has far more than its share of billionaires, in per capita income it is exactly the national average. Most urban areas in general are above average. NWA lags in the "disposable income" department nationally, though regionally it is probably well ahead.

3. I think you would have made a good case for putting a team in Tulsa if NWA and Springfield were in their TV market. "TV market" centers on your area. When those markets' newcasts are centered on NWA it would be different. As is, though, NWA including Ft Smith is #104 on the Nielsen list.

4. Yeah, that privately funded arena is supposed to cost $35-40 million. A real NBA/NHL arena these days will cost at least $300 million (The FedEx Forum cost $300 million). NOBODY privately finances arenas that cost that much to build.

[Mith242]

I'd also have to question whether you could get the other areas of the state behind a team. You don't ever see any coverage of any of the semi-pro teams in Little Rock up here. I think it would have to be something really big to get the rest of the state interested. And I don't think that's likely to happen. So that leaves some of the smaller major sports leagues. I'm not sure whether things like a WNBA or say something like a MLS or something along those lines would be popular enough to get fan support outside our metro. Closer areas like Ft Smith sure, but I don't know if Little Rock could really factor much into it. Having some of the compnies we have in our metro helps but I'm not sure it makes up enough of some of the other things we're lacking in.

[KJW]

1. In x number of years things might be different. Right now, though, we're talking about a tiny population. There is no way NWA can compete with cities like Louisville, OKC, or Las Vegas for a new franchise with a population less than a third their size. Even cities nobody talks about getting pro franchises like Birmingham and West Palm Beach are well ahead.

2. Remember, while NWA has far more than its share of billionaires, in per capita income it is exactly the national average. Most urban areas in general are above average. NWA lags in the "disposable income" department nationally, though regionally it is probably well ahead.

3. I think you would have made a good case for putting a team in Tulsa if NWA and Springfield were in their TV market. "TV market" centers on your area. When those markets' newcasts are centered on NWA it would be different. As is, though, NWA including Ft Smith is #104 on the Nielsen list.

4. Yeah, that privately funded arena is supposed to cost $35-40 million. A real NBA/NHL arena these days will cost at least $300 million (The FedEx Forum cost $300 million). NOBODY privately finances arenas that cost that much to build.

Aporkalypse, the one point I'll question you on is #3...if Benton County becomes or has become the center of a 400,000 (currently) person metro area I'll guarantee you'll find few if any such metro areas that have their home county bordered by three other DMAs. That brings us to ask what adjacent counties in the adjacent markets may break off and join NWA some day but I'll grant even the addition of the three most likely (Carroll, AR; Delaware, OK; McDonald, MO) wouldn't push NWA to Louisville or OKC status let alone higher. (BTW, Tulsa would, with their "Vision 2025 (sic)" arena projects, supposedly boondoggled as it is, be a candidate for a WNBA team...but west, north and even south of Tulsa is pretty much a "big nothing" until you get all the way to D/FW or Kansas City. NWA, by comparison, has a lot happening immediately west and northeast of it and some significant (not enough by themselves to merit even a minor league team) goings on immediately north and south...lots of population.)

Again, there's so much we don't know about the future of this NWA market.

I'll ask two questions I've asked in variation before then:

1. Why do you guys think these arena folks (again, many within this group apparently know the business and are not johnny-come-latelys) think they have a chance at something like the WNBA?

2. And if indeed the WNBA is "interested" as this coalition and Mayor Terry Coberly say, why would they be interested? Common courtesy? (I'd think not...that they'd just brush off such backers with a polite (or not) "not a chance" if they thought there wasn't anything here in NWA/Arkansas worth looking at.)

I'd also have to question whether you could get the other areas of the state behind a team. You don't ever see any coverage of any of the semi-pro teams in Little Rock up here. I think it would have to be something really big to get the rest of the state interested. And I don't think that's likely to happen. So that leaves some of the smaller major sports leagues. I'm not sure whether things like a WNBA or say something like a MLS or something along those lines would be popular enough to get fan support outside our metro. Closer areas like Ft Smith sure, but I don't know if Little Rock could really factor much into it. Having some of the compnies we have in our metro helps but I'm not sure it makes up enough of some of the other things we're lacking in.

Mith, you're right...to hear LR folks tell it, all the media coverage there is focused up here. (The Travelerocity folks joked that would be the case with the Springdale Wranglers as well.)

Hmmm...

[KJW]

The question you made keeps getting better, jdevers.

If this arena is in Bentonville's city limits, it would mean Bentonville is the second smallest city to have a WNBA team. The "smallest" honor would fall to Uncasville, CT, which is a village that is part of Montville, CT, whose population is around 18,000. BTW, the Connecticut Suns made it to this year's WNBA semifinals.

Now, the county this is in is part of greater Hartford, CT and in the Hartford-New Haven DMA, so this would got back to "How would they market this team via TV in comparison to the other markets"?

Meanwhile, interspersed with some "dead armadillo" joks there are some on WNBA fan boards who aren't dismissing this "WNBA-in-Bentonville" idea at all (toward the bottom of the thread).

[jdevers]

The question you made keeps getting better, jdevers.

If this arena is in Bentonville's city limits, it would mean Bentonville is the second smallest city to have a WNBA team. The "smallest" honor would fall to Uncasville, CT, which is a village that is part of Montville, CT, whose population is around 18,000. BTW, the Connecticut Suns made it to this year's WNBA semifinals.

Now, the county this is in is part of greater Hartford, CT and in the Hartford-New Haven DMA, so this would got back to "How would they market this team via TV in comparison to the other markets"?

Meanwhile, interspersed with some "dead armadillo" joks there are some on WNBA fan boards who aren't dismissing this "WNBA-in-Bentonville" idea at all (toward the bottom of the thread).

It isn't just in the Hartford DMA, it is 30 miles from Hartford. Have you ever been to Connecticut? We are talking about a state with eight counties. It is 70 miles wide and 110 miles across, but has 3.4 million people within it's borders. "Rural" CT is more densely populated than all but the city centers in Arkansas.

Here are population density maps of

Connecticut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Connect...ulation_map.png

Arkansas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Arkansa...ulation_map.png

Now, I realize that since they are both scaled to the same size it exaggerated the density difference, but there is still a decidely different population mechanism at work in that part of the country than here. Also, are we talking about WNBA or men's sports? One thing that web board you mentioned DOES discuss is that the WNBA is "big league" only in name. Attendence figures for a season are about what most teams average per GAME... We might be able to pull off a WNBA team, at least as a novelty factor at first...