WNBA Team is Coming to Rogers!!!!!

[KJW]

It isn't just in the Hartford DMA, it is 30 miles from Hartford. Have you ever been to Connecticut? We are talking about a state with eight counties. It is 70 miles wide and 110 miles across, but has 3.4 million people within it's borders. "Rural" CT is more densely populated than all but the city centers in Arkansas.

Here are population density maps of

Connecticut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Connect...ulation_map.png

Arkansas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Arkansa...ulation_map.png

Now, I realize that since they are both scaled to the same size it exaggerated the density difference, but there is still a decidely different population mechanism at work in that part of the country than here.

jdevers,

I'm not trying to bust your chops, sir.

I know that most of Connecticut is basically a suburb of NYC (which, too, has a WNBA team) and is heavily populated, even though that the team location of Uncasville, were it not for the casino, would be a strange location.

Again, this NWA market is such a strange story in so many ways. I'm not trying to knock any of you who; A) genuinely don't believe this market and/or Arkansas can support any major league team, even a WNBA one (I'm not as far from your line of thinking as you might think);, or who: B) don't want to see NWA become a true major metro area with all the problems attached to same, and/or C) don't want to see NWA and/or Arkansas get embarassed with a major league sports "flop" of any kind.

But this market, with its strange media dynamics, unusual growth patterns/trends and seeming abundance of corporate money compared to many other American states, is naturally setting off curiousity among those who believe in the American dream...who see incredible opportunity or at least potential in all the above. What did the investor guy Chris Talley say about the $14 million WNBA expansion team price tag (that the SF bay / San Jose area folks supposedly balked at), words to the effect that such an investment would be no problem?

If he and his crew are willing to spend the $14 million for that express purpose and then build this arena, I think it will be fun to watch them do it. I want to see HOW they're going to pull it all off.

[Aporkalypse]

Aporkalypse, the one point I'll question you on is #3...if Benton County becomes or has become the center of a 400,000 (currently) person metro area I'll guarantee you'll find few if any such metro areas that have their home county bordered by three other DMAs. That brings us to ask what adjacent counties in the adjacent markets may break off and join NWA some day but I'll grant even the addition of the three most likely (Carroll, AR; Delaware, OK; McDonald, MO) wouldn't push NWA to Louisville or OKC status let alone higher. (BTW, Tulsa would, with their "Vision 2025 (sic)" arena projects, supposedly boondoggled as it is, be a candidate for a WNBA team...but west, north and even south of Tulsa is pretty much a "big nothing" until you get all the way to D/FW or Kansas City. NWA, by comparison, has a lot happening immediately west and northeast of it and some significant (not enough by themselves to merit even a minor league team) goings on immediately north and south...lots of population.)

Again, there's so much we don't know about the future of this NWA market.

I'll ask two questions I've asked in variation before then:

1. Why do you guys think these arena folks (again, many within this group apparently know the business and are not johnny-come-latelys) think they have a chance at something like the WNBA?

2. And if indeed the WNBA is "interested" as this coalition and Mayor Terry Coberly say, why would they be interested? Common courtesy? (I'd think not...that they'd just brush off such backers with a polite (or not) "not a chance" if they thought there wasn't anything here in NWA/Arkansas worth looking at.)

Mith, you're right...to hear LR folks tell it, all the media coverage there is focused up here. (The Travelerocity folks joked that would be the case with the Springdale Wranglers as well.)

Hmmm...

Sorry, I was talking more about major sports based on the title of the thread. I think WNBA could be interested but if it is it has clearly made a paradigm shift and is targeting smaller markets more willing to fill the seats over large markets that apparently aren't interested. If you believe what you read, part of this may be simply that the WNBA is so desparate to find owners they'll listen to anyone willing to buy a team.

I'm not as sold as you are on the "arena folks". It's a group of 17 investors and the previous projects are largely in very small markets. I think they may be going too small to draw decent concerts and that the price range they are talking about won't build an adequate facility. I'm no fan of the location choice, either.

[KJW]

Sorry, I was talking more about major sports based on the title of the thread. I think WNBA could be interested but if it is it has clearly made a paradigm shift and is targeting smaller markets more willing to fill the seats over large markets that apparently aren't interested. If you believe what you read, part of this may be simply that the WNBA is so desparate to find owners they'll listen to anyone willing to buy a team.

I'm not as sold as you are on the "arena folks". It's a group of 17 investors and the previous projects are largely in very small markets. I think they may be going too small to draw decent concerts and that the price range they are talking about won't build an adequate facility. I'm no fan of the location choice, either.

Aporkalypse, cool by me...I want to learn more about this project as well.

BTW, unrelated, but the new fairgrounds (north of the arena by a mile or two) are coming up quickly. Lots of smaller buildings have the steel up and there's a lot of work being done there.

[Aporkalypse]

Aporkalypse, cool by me...I want to learn more about this project as well.

BTW, unrelated, but the new fairgrounds (north of the arena by a mile or two) are coming up quickly. Lots of smaller buildings have the steel up and there's a lot of work being done there.

I haven't been that way in over a year. I didn't know about the fairgrounds, I'll have to check them out.

[jdevers]

jdevers,

I'm not trying to bust your chops, sir.

I know that most of Connecticut is basically a suburb of NYC (which, too, has a WNBA team) and is heavily populated, even though that the team location of Uncasville, were it not for the casino, would be a strange location.

Again, this NWA market is such a strange story in so many ways. I'm not trying to knock any of you who; A) genuinely don't believe this market and/or Arkansas can support any major league team, even a WNBA one (I'm not as far from your line of thinking as you might think);, or who: B) don't want to see NWA become a true major metro area with all the problems attached to same, and/or C) don't want to see NWA and/or Arkansas get embarassed with a major league sports "flop" of any kind.

But this market, with its strange media dynamics, unusual growth patterns/trends and seeming abundance of corporate money compared to many other American states, is naturally setting off curiousity among those who believe in the American dream...who see incredible opportunity or at least potential in all the above. What did the investor guy Chris Talley say about the $14 million WNBA expansion team price tag (that the SF bay / San Jose area folks supposedly balked at), words to the effect that such an investment would be no problem?

If he and his crew are willing to spend the $14 million for that express purpose and then build this arena, I think it will be fun to watch them do it. I want to see HOW they're going to pull it all off.

I know you aren't trying to bust my chops...neither am I trying to bust yours

I would actually characterize Uncasville as more of a cross town suburb (halfway mark) of Newport, RI and Hartford, CT than NYC. It is actually a bit closer to Boston than NYC, but is really almost midway between those two cities. Boston and NYC are separated by about the same distance as Fayetteville and Tulsa, plus about 5 million people live between them that aren't in either MSA.

I DO want this area to grow, but there is logical growth and then there is illogical growth. Us getting one of the big three pro sports is something that is very illogical. We ARE moving up in the world, not too long ago thtis part of the state was theh trailer park of the US, now we are becoming a starter house neighborhood... Just like people who get a raise from $25K to $35K a year, we shouldn't be considering moving from a $90K houes to a 400K house, maybe more like a $120K house.

[Mith242]

I know you aren't trying to bust my chops...neither am I trying to bust yours

I would actually characterize Uncasville as more of a cross town suburb (halfway mark) of Newport, RI and Hartford, CT than NYC. It is actually a bit closer to Boston than NYC, but is really almost midway between those two cities. Boston and NYC are separated by about the same distance as Fayetteville and Tulsa, plus about 5 million people live between them that aren't in either MSA.

I DO want this area to grow, but there is logical growth and then there is illogical growth. Us getting one of the big three pro sports is something that is very illogical. We ARE moving up in the world, not too long ago thtis part of the state was theh trailer park of the US, now we are becoming a starter house neighborhood... Just like people who get a raise from $25K to $35K a year, we shouldn't be considering moving from a $90K houes to a 400K house, maybe more like a $120K house.

Interesting analogy.

[Aporkalypse]

I think a guy that has to put 17 people together to build a $35-40 million second class arena better think twice about spending $14 million on a WNBA team. I think spending the extra money on the arena is bound to give you a better return. There's a reason that owners in larger markets that own other sports teams worth at least $300 million won't spend $14 million for a WNBA team.

[KJW]

I know you aren't trying to bust my chops...neither am I trying to bust yours

I would actually characterize Uncasville as more of a cross town suburb (halfway mark) of Newport, RI and Hartford, CT than NYC. It is actually a bit closer to Boston than NYC, but is really almost midway between those two cities. Boston and NYC are separated by about the same distance as Fayetteville and Tulsa, plus about 5 million people live between them that aren't in either MSA.

I DO want this area to grow, but there is logical growth and then there is illogical growth. Us getting one of the big three pro sports is something that is very illogical. We ARE moving up in the world, not too long ago thtis part of the state was theh trailer park of the US, now we are becoming a starter house neighborhood... Just like people who get a raise from $25K to $35K a year, we shouldn't be considering moving from a $90K houes to a 400K house, maybe more like a $120K house.

Not a bad analogy, indeed.

I wonder...I don't see NWA in our lifetime as an NFL, MLB or NBA town. That would be my idea of a 400K house (or more if someone got the idea to get two or all three of the above).

Yet, the WNBA might not be quite that high of a housing move IMO. Guess we'll see.

[KJW]

Channel 5 just reported that not only will the NBA officials be here to see about putting a (more likely) NBA development team or an NBA team here, but that the Bentonville Arena folks are looking at working with the U of A to let a WNBA team play here as early as 2008, with them using Walton Arena until the new B'ville arena is built?

What the...?

[mcheiss]

Channel 5 just reported that not only will the NBA officials be here to see about putting a (more likely) NBA development team or an NBA team here, but that the Bentonville Arena folks are looking at working with the U of A to let a WNBA team play here as early as 2008, with them using Walton Arena until the new B'ville arena is built?

What the...?

And this is going to run coincide with UofA Basketball and UofA Women's Basketball?

[KJW]

Open press release...insert foot...

Hope he thinks before he acts next time.

[mcheiss]

As I thought, the U of A didn't approve of this.

It's too much a conflict of schedule, plus the WNBA probably wanted to sell beer at the games, which wasn't possible.

[jdevers]

...plus the WNBA probably wanted to sell beer at the games, which wasn't possible.

That isn't entirely true, beer can be sold on UofA property, but not at any NCAA event. The concerts they have at Randall Tyson Track center DO sell alcohol, I know this because I have bought one massively over priced crap beer at one of the events because I was guilted into it...

[mcheiss]

That isn't entirely true, beer can be sold on UofA property, but not at any NCAA event. The concerts they have at Randall Tyson Track center DO sell alcohol, I know this because I have bought one massively over priced crap beer at one of the events because I was guilted into it...

Hu, I didn't know that. Thanks.

[Mith242]

Yeah I had heard about that and wondered if this was going to be another situation like the others. At this point I'm basically not expecting anything to be on any of the U of A facilities.

[Aporkalypse]

And this is going to run coincide with UofA Basketball and UofA Women's Basketball?

WNBA is a summertime league and wouldn't coincide with UA sports other than the last half of the baseball season. It would completely overlap with Texas League baseball, though.

The NBADL (and NBA, but clearly that's not an option) completely overlaps with UA basketball and women's basketball, Nov through April. I see why the UA wouldn't allow it. However, it seems a bit foolish to me. Do you honestly think the NBADL could draw more than 1000 a game during the same time as the UA's basketball season? Sure there are some non-Hog fans up there but NBADL markets are generally in places without other major sports draws for competition and they often struggle a bit even there.

I like the idea of minor league hockey so much better, there's no competition and will appeal to fans that could care less about UA sports. In many ways NWA is the ideal minor league hockey market and could do as well as the Lafayette ECHL franchise did.

[Mith242]

You do raise an interesting point. I doubt the university wouldn't allow any of these sport teams in their facilities because they don't want to help popularize something that isn't the Razorbacks. Although even with that aside I doubt Broyles would still allow any of it anyway unless he had his own personal hand in the event or team.

[KJW]

You do raise an interesting point. I doubt the university wouldn't allow any of these sport teams in their facilities because they don't want to help popularize something that isn't the Razorbacks. Although even with that aside I doubt Broyles would still allow any of it anyway unless he had his own personal hand in the event or team.

Mith, Coach Broyles has nothing to be ashamed of but...I wonder how he must feel seeing the changes?

His storied program was once "the only game in town" (almost in "the state"). Now he may be doing things alongside an ECHL team, an NBA-D team, a WNBA team and a Texas League team at least.

Cumulatively none of those can offer what the Razorbacks can, but it's still got to be a "Lion in the winter" moment for him...

[Mith242]

Mith, Coach Broyles has nothing to be ashamed of but...I wonder how he must feel seeing the changes?

His storied program was once "the only game in town" (almost in "the state"). Now he may be doing things alongside an ECHL team, an NBA-D team, a WNBA team and a Texas League team at least.

Cumulatively none of those can offer what the Razorbacks can, but it's still got to be a "Lion in the winter" moment for him...

Overall I think I have to agree with Aporkalypse on this. I do wonder how most of those teams and sports will 'compete' against the Razorbacks. I do think potential for those, at least some of them, I couldn't see any of them ever really becomming big enough to even make a dent in the Razorback Nation. I'd certainly help support those other teams and like the idea of some other options in the metro. But I don't think I could ever see myself following any of them more than the Razorbacks.

[KJW]

Overall I think I have to agree with Aporkalypse on this. I do wonder how most of those teams and sports will 'compete' against the Razorbacks. I do think potential for those, at least some of them, I couldn't see any of them ever really becomming big enough to even make a dent in the Razorback Nation. I'd certainly help support those other teams and like the idea of some other options in the metro. But I don't think I could ever see myself following any of them more than the Razorbacks.

Yeah, I think we may be looking at two different markets for these sports, with some overlap. The telltale (Springdale) Benton County/Washington County vote splits in the stadium election may bear this out.

[Mith242]

Yeah, I think we may be looking at two different markets for these sports, with some overlap. The telltale (Springdale) Benton County/Washington County vote splits in the stadium election may bear this out.

I do wonder if this will eventually cause more of a Benton-Washington County split. Although I'm sure many Benton County residents will still be big Razorback fans.

[Aporkalypse]

I do wonder if this will eventually cause more of a Benton-Washington County split. Although I'm sure many Benton County residents will still be big Razorback fans.

I don't think there would be much of a split. It could be more of a locals vs out-of-staters that didn't go to UA kind of split but I don't see that group rallying behind minor league sports enough to carry them without a lot of help from the usual rowdy UA crowd. There are still a hell of a lot of Hog fans in Benton Co, I can tell you that.

I guess the NBADL issue, speaking from experience, is that the quality of basketball is really inferior to SEC basketball in most ways. The real stars are good enough to play in the NBA and a lot of good college ballers that can't cut it in the NBA are in Europe. The NBADL is a great way to waste an evening drinking beer, especially when you like a few of the players because they are/were locals at one point and moreso, for those of us in LR, because it beats UALR or UCA sports and there's not much else to do. Compared to the experience at Bud Walton, though, it's mickey mouse. Minor League sports, in general, is just a way to waste time and drink a couple of beers with friends - they don't really compete with big-time college or pro sports. However, you can have fun watching fights at a hockey game or watching future major leaguers play baseball which is why I think these are the best bets for minor league sports and NWA is a lock for both of these (assuming the arena is built).

[KJW]

I don't think there would be much of a split. It could be more of a locals vs out-of-staters that didn't go to UA kind of split but I don't see that group rallying behind minor league sports enough to carry them without a lot of help from the usual rowdy UA crowd. There are still a hell of a lot of Hog fans in Benton Co, I can tell you that.

Aporkalypse,

Once more this goes back to Xperimental Northwest Arkansas...the only place in the SEC country I know of which has a Nebraska University football-carrying radio station (in Rogers) and a Nebraska University gift shop (which has proudly advertised as such in the past, in BV).

How much will the out-of-staters who've "adopted" NWA support said pro teams?

How much support will the in-staters give?

Should be interesting to watch.

[Aporkalypse]

Aporkalypse,

Once more this goes back to Xperimental Northwest Arkansas...the only place in the SEC country I know of which has a Nebraska University football-carrying radio station (in Rogers) and a Nebraska University gift shop (which has proudly advertised as such in the past, in BV).

How much will the out-of-staters who've "adopted" NWA support said pro teams?

How much support will the in-staters give?

Should be interesting to watch.

I know what you're saying BUT...

How many Nebraska fans are there? 5000? 10,000 even? That's still a minor dent.

I think there are fewer NU fans in NWA than (damn) OU fans in Ft Smith. That place is loaded with them.

Memphis is interesting. They have stations there broadcasting Tennessee, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Miss State, and Memphis sports. It's kind of like the SEC's neutral ground.

[mcheiss]

Aporkalypse,

Once more this goes back to Xperimental Northwest Arkansas...the only place in the SEC country I know of which has a Nebraska University football-carrying radio station (in Rogers) and a Nebraska University gift shop (which has proudly advertised as such in the past, in BV).

What? I've never heard of these. Please explain KJW.