Biotech institute considers Tallahassee for new facility

[Glenn]

It's official...decision has been made & PSL is getting TP

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2006/09/04/0904torrey.html

[poonther]

Very sad and disappointing!

Remember to react w/your votes.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Does Tallahassee already have a biotechnical inst.? Or is this somethin new?

[Florida]

This is something New!

[Misvit]

Not that it really matters since it's a bit late and all, but for those thinking that "Just a building" stopped you from getting the facility.... They asked for a 100,000 square foot building to remodel at around 400 dollars a square foot.... that's another $40 million to come up with, which isn't that easy.

Also, I'm young, so I don't know the ways of the world yet, but I'm not understanding how this one facility would suddenly boost the local economy, create extra jobs, and in general give the city an upturn.... I don't know how many people work in a Biotech facility, but a typical 100,000 square foot office (which could fit in anywhere from 2 to 4 stories) has about 200-250 people working in it. Now I guess if you assume all of those people have separate families that they'll be lugging along, you'd be adding an extra subdivision's worth of people, and an extra kroger/gas station/ etc for those people. So I guess my question is, is that really that much? Does that make a difference? Does 800 or so people (plus kids) and a new facilty start some sorta snowball effect that causes more and more companies and ammenities to show up? Thanx in advance for answering

~The Misvit

[AlabamaGuy2007]

This is something New!

Wow, Tally's laggin behind. We just approved I think 3 in the last, lik, 3 monthes up here.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Not that it really matters since it's a bit late and all, but for those thinking that "Just a building" stopped you from getting the facility.... They asked for a 100,000 square foot building to remodel at around 400 dollars a square foot.... that's another $40 million to come up with, which isn't that easy.

Also, I'm young, so I don't know the ways of the world yet, but I'm not understanding how this one facility would suddenly boost the local economy, create extra jobs, and in general give the city an upturn.... I don't know how many people work in a Biotech facility, but a typical 100,000 square foot office (which could fit in anywhere from 2 to 4 stories) has about 200-250 people working in it. Now I guess if you assume all of those people have separate families that they'll be lugging along, you'd be adding an extra subdivision's worth of people, and an extra kroger/gas station/ etc for those people. So I guess my question is, is that really that much? Does that make a difference? Does 800 or so people (plus kids) and a new facilty start some sorta snowball effect that causes more and more companies and ammenities to show up? Thanx in advance for answering

~The Misvit

I'll just compare it to how it is up here. When a research industry starts up, one research institute won't do too much. It'll up the quality of life, and education might get a boost. 2 or 3 hundred jobs MIGHT be made, with their families you might be lookin at 500-650 more residents. Following that sudden growth, more jobs will be created to support those extra people, which will in turn result in slightly more growth. After that one institute is establish, you're seeing about 700 extra residents. For that one institute.

Now, from there, it's hard to tell what happens. Here're two possible scenarios:

1) Another institute sees the success of that one established institute. If it likes the kind of success that that one institute has had, it might move to the city, resulting in even more growth, bettwe quality of life all around. That in turn creates more jobs to support the workers at the institutes which also helps the city.

2) If years go by, and no othe institute takes interest in the city, another one isn't likely to follow the first. But, the jobs from that first institute will probably be there for a LONG time.

Like I said it's hit or miss, it could be a mixture of both of those scenarios, you can never tell. What kept the Huntsville-Decatur area going was the arsenal and the space flight center. Researchers liked the idea that there was a large government instillment in the area in both defense and clean high-tech aerospace that had made large feats in creating the space shuttle.

If Tally attracts one or two institutes after this initial one, you could see an explosion of the city into the market.

[Misvit]

Ah, so it's more like, you have to start somewhere, it still doesn't mean anything for sure but if you don't get anything you know you're not going anywhere. Why not just move to a city that is already booming?

Also, how do you better your city/town/whatever without having to bring in new people. Can't places work with the people they already have to make better living conditions? Or do you need that incentive of fresh ideas and people for new growth?

On a different note, maybe we just have too many small burgeoning cities trying to be the next big hit. How many research facilities/government bases/industrial factories are there really to go around? And why do any of them even think of places like Tallahasee, instead of going straight to larger cities?

[poonther]

Good summary there AG. Torrey Pines was to bring w/it also the possiblity of at least 2 more spin off companies. Also these jobs are high paying jobs and w/more money earned, more money is spent and thus the entire economy is stimulated even more.

As for why Tally or mid-sized metros for these types of businesses? I say why not? Why do large cities have to be the only ones that attract these type of businesses? Does every new biz in the South have to move to ATL, CLT or DFW? Often times in mid-sized metros the quality of life factors (crime, housing cost, commuter times etc) are often better. Also these new companies in smaller metros are treated like royalty since they are the only ones or one of a few while in very large metros they are just part of the pack. In a place like Tally, it's the intellectual capital here that should be attractive. We are the most educated city in FL and I'll bet one of the more educated ones in the South.

As for Tally trying to be the "next big hit" naw that's not what we are trying to do. All we are really trying to do is diversify our economy w/good clean industry jobs that pay good wages. We are mainly trying to ween ourselves off of being completely depended on state government jobs since we are the Capitol and have 2 state universities in town.

In America it does seem that we do see rapid growth as the best factor of a successful city. I don't totally agree w/that. I think real successful cities do grow at a slow to moderate rate, but also improve the life of all their citizens. Some examples of this would be improving the literacy rate to near 100%, afforable health-care for all, super low infant death rates, lowering the poverty levels etc etc.

[Florida]

Good summary there AG. Torrey Pines was to bring w/it also the possiblity of at least 2 more spin off companies. Also these jobs are high paying jobs and w/more money earned, more money is spent and thus the entire economy is stimulated even more.

As for why Tally or mid-sized metros for these types of businesses? I say why not? Why do large cities have to be the only ones that attract these type of businesses? Does every new biz in the South have to move to ATL, CLT or DFW? Often times in mid-sized metros the quality of life factors (crime, housing cost, commuter times etc) are often better. Also these new companies in smaller metros are treated like royalty since they are the only ones or one of a few while in very large metros they are just part of the pack. In a place like Tally, it's the intellectual capital here that should be attractive. We are the most educated city in FL and I'll bet one of the more educated ones in the South.

As for Tally trying to be the "next big hit" naw that's not what we are trying to do. All we are really trying to do is diversify our economy w/good clean industry jobs that pay good wages. We are mainly trying to ween ourselves off of being completely depended on state government jobs since we are the Capitol and have 2 state universities in town.

In America it does seem that we do see rapid growth as the best factor of a successful city. I don't totally agree w/that. I think real successful cities do grow at a slow to moderate rate, but also improve the life of all their citizens. Some examples of this would be improving the literacy rate to near 100%, afforable health-care for all, super low infant death rates, lowering the poverty levels etc etc.

Great summary there Poonther. It would seem, if local leaders learned something from this experience, the next opportunity to come along is a sure bet. What we need to do is overhaul Lake Bradford/Spring Hill road and beautify it... much like we did Blairstone, make it the next area for local professionals to settle into and build tons of restaurants, a few stores and subdivisions. This would really make the Innovation Park / Airport Industrial Park / Southwood Business Park / Commonwealth Park take off.

[stjoe]

TJ,

I am sorry, but if you believed anyone 'learned' anything, you are mistaken. That is just the position taken to soften the blow. The utter lack of effort and concern from anybody, minus FSU, is all you need to know. Don't expect to see any high tech/research come to Tally unless FSU pulls them in by themselves.

The 'we are working together now' or 'we learned from this' is all political BS for 'we are incompetent and are trying to spin this so we look like we know something'.

Compare Tally to every other State capitol with a major research university, you see how behind Tally is and it's only response is 'someday we will be ready'. BS.

[Sandman]

We know who is on the playing field with attracting hi-tech companies to Tallahassee. FSU and the state are very pro growth and will help to attract business.

Here is a crazy idea.

Everyone has heard of the windfall property tax that the county and city are sitting on, somewhere between 15 and 20 million for this year. What if we put pressure on them (city and county) to set up 2 funds with this money?

To make old Bob and a few others happy, one fund will be to fund local startup companies.

The other will be for the EDC to use to attract hi-tech/research companies to Tallahassee. Who knows maybe we can get the Jim Moran institute, TCC, FAMU, St. Joe, AG Baker, Holton/MDS, and Enterprise Florida to help out? If this fund is established it will negate all the last minute running around we did for TP. It would allow us from the beginning to have an established source to use for these types of deals.

These funds would at least allow us a boxers chance, instead of being a one-armed puncher.

[poonther]

^Good idea Sandman. I'm not sure about the exact specifics of your proposal and how it would work, but I do think it's worth suggesting to "those in charge." Here's the email address of the Economic Development Council: [email protected] . I'd just take your above proposal, cut and paste it on an email and present it in letter form to Brad Day and Bill Law over at the EDC and see what type of feedback you'll get. It's worth a shot at suggesting.

I feel w/Bill Law and Brad Day at the helm of the EDC, more opportunities will come our way. Maybe they'll be bio-tech opportunities, maybe not. But I don't believe it's all over just b/c we lost T.P. I think that the city commission and FSU did work a little better together this time and hopefully that will continue even more in the future. It's a long shot, but now I really do think we need Debbie off that commission and Dr. V. on it. The man is an economic professor and understands this "game" of drawing in companies better.

As for the County Commission, I'm disappointed in the outcome of Districts 1, 4 and 5 race. Hopefully Mayernick can pull it off in D5, but that's an uphill battle for sure. I definitely think D4 needs Desologe much more than we need Messer. Desologe just seems like a stronger leader. And once again we are stuck w/Proctor. Anyway, I still think we have 4 (majority) pro-economic votes on the board...Thaell (even if you don't agree w/all he says, he is for this type of stuff) DePuy, Dailey from D3 (he's got a MURP he should understand as long we don't build it on Lake Jackson) and either Desolge or Messer from D4. If Mayernick could pull it off in D5 that would be grand!

While I think we are way behind as far as what we've got currently compared to other similiar areas and we need to get our local act together and on the same page to build incentives, bottom line for me is I still believe. It maybe a slow "bang your head against the wall" process and training/learning experience. I think we have shown some progress and that slight progress still gives me hope, so I do still believe.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Ah, so it's more like, you have to start somewhere, it still doesn't mean anything for sure but if you don't get anything you know you're not going anywhere. Why not just move to a city that is already booming?

Also, how do you better your city/town/whatever without having to bring in new people. Can't places work with the people they already have to make better living conditions? Or do you need that incentive of fresh ideas and people for new growth?

On a different note, maybe we just have too many small burgeoning cities trying to be the next big hit. How many research facilities/government bases/industrial factories are there really to go around? And why do any of them even think of places like Tallahasee, instead of going straight to larger cities?

Well, in the Huntsville-Decatur CSA, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, so, there aren't that many professionals that are available to do these new jobs, so, more have to be recruited and the city can do nothing but grow.

I'll tell you why these places come to cities that aren't on the map of Bio-tech research. Birmingham was the first pic for the most recent approved institute here, it's huge, I mean HUGE. But, the main reason that it was going to go to Birmingham first was because of the University of Alabama at Birmingham. It saw all of the medical advances being made in the university and it wanted to be a part of that. But, unfortunately for Greater Birmingham, the Huntsville-Decatur Area offered more money, and a better site in the 2nd largest research park in the country. Obviously the institute liked that much better and set off for Cummings Research Park.

There are a lot of these institutes to go around, or up here, there appear to. Lots of these places are being built to keep up with the demand for research for cures and medications. It's a huge business. After a Birmingham based Bio-Med reserach institutre released that it might have found a cure for Bird Flu, shares of their company sored.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

As for why Tally or mid-sized metros for these types of businesses? I say why not? Why do large cities have to be the only ones that attract these type of businesses? Does every new biz in the South have to move to ATL, CLT or DFW? Often times in mid-sized metros the quality of life factors (crime, housing cost, commuter times etc) are often better. Also these new companies in smaller metros are treated like royalty since they are the only ones or one of a few while in very large metros they are just part of the pack. In a place like Tally, it's the intellectual capital here that should be attractive. We are the most educated city in FL and I'll bet one of the more educated ones in the South.

You're right about that for sure. The one thing that Birmingham has done right is keep their huge banking industry rollin down the tracks. Without the banks, Birmingham would be tired and run down, in worse shape than ever. A lot of the research funding for UAB comes from the cities revenue from banks like Regions, Amsouth, Compass, First American, etc... All of these banks make substantial donations to UAB, without it, Alabama as a whole would be worse off. It's great to see these "smaller" cities making huge feats.

[Florida]

FSU seems to be making tremendous progress on the medical research front. I think within the next 2 years Tallahassee, with the leadership of FSU will lure a serious research institution. We've got to get Lake Bradford in shape! I can't stress that enough.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

FSU seems to be making tremendous progress on the medical research front. I think within the next 2 years Tallahassee, with the leadership of FSU will lure a serious research institution. We've got to get Lake Bradford in shape! I can't stress that enough.

That's how Birmingham started it's research industry. With the medical university. As long as FSU keeps doin research, Tally'll become more appealing.

[BHCav]

TJ,

I am sorry, but if you believed anyone 'learned' anything, you are mistaken. That is just the position taken to soften the blow. The utter lack of effort and concern from anybody, minus FSU, is all you need to know. Don't expect to see any high tech/research come to Tally unless FSU pulls them in by themselves.

The 'we are working together now' or 'we learned from this' is all political BS for 'we are incompetent and are trying to spin this so we look like we know something'.

Compare Tally to every other State capitol with a major research university, you see how behind Tally is and it's only response is 'someday we will be ready'. BS.

Awesome post. I'm trying to remember the last time I disagreed with anything you said.

[stjoe]

"FSU seems to be making tremendous progress on the medical research front. I think within the next 2 years Tallahassee, with the leadership of FSU will lure a serious research institution. We've got to get Lake Bradford in shape! I can't stress that enough."

"That's how Birmingham started it's research industry. With the medical university. As long as FSU keeps doin research, Tally'll become more appealing."

Actually, FSU has made almost no progress in research with it's Med School. FAMU brings in more NIH grant money than FSU. FSU's Med School does not have a research mission so hoping this can make Tally more appealing for biotech is just not so. I believe FSU has only 1-4 NIH grants and they are small.

If FSU and Tally are going to compete they need to make real moves, not just provide political statements after failures. FSU is far and away the best thing this town has, but even it has many areas it must improve on.

I'll give some examples of what I think needs to happen, but I doubt much, if any of it, does:

*FSU needs to expand it's mission statement for the Med School to include research.

*FSU's med school needs a teaching hospital. Wheither that is TMH or the new hospital at St Joe's Southside, I don't care, but it should also include residencies.

*The city and county MUST be willing to offer financial incentives to bring in research. It doesn't have to be to the level's of other areas, but it can't be zero dollars like it pulled with Torrey Pines.

*FAMU & TCC must contribute dollars to attract high tech just like FSU. IF these institutions insist on being mentioned as equals with equal votes, they most pull their equal weight. If found it convienent how no local power or media mentioned FSU offered $30 Million to Torrey Pines, but nobody else offered squat. If these entities, as well as the city/county want to be players, they need to stand up to the plate. The reality is all 4 of these players (TCC, FAMU, City, County) act as if they would rather have equal say in very little than have FSU lead with a lot of high tech research. It is the wrong attitude.

*St Joe needs to be brought to the table to bring in high tech. Specifically setting up a research park, something at least 1,000 acres. St Joe did try to bring in business to the area some years back, but got frustrated with the anti business attitude of local politicians and gave up.

*It must be understood by all powers how critical mass is needed to produce high tech spin offs.

*Visiting Austin, Raleigh, & Madison on tax payers dime must end by local politicians. They went to these areas to learn and refused to emulate what these areas do to bring in high tech. Just a waste of tax payer money.

[BHCav]

*Visiting Austin, Raleigh, & Madison on tax payers dime must end by local politicians. They went to these areas to learn and refused to emulate what these areas do to bring in high tech. Just a waste of tax payer money.

Basically these were just vacations.

[poonther]

Good "food for thought" there SJ. Now the 64 thousand dollar question is how to get this ball rolling again?

I don't think the actual trips to Austin etc were a waste of time. I think not implementing anything they saw there made it a waste of time.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

*Visiting Austin, Raleigh, & Madison on tax payers dime must end by local politicians. They went to these areas to learn and refused to emulate what these areas do to bring in high tech. Just a waste of tax payer money.

As true as it is that the politicians refuse to put into effect the amount of money needed to get this research going, you can completely say they would've learned anything from these towns. Research is such a hit or miss industry, it's nearly impossible to tell if you'll be the next Research Triange, Huntsville, Silicon Vally, etc... Doesn't matter how much money you invest, doesn't mean a thing if the city isn't nice in the institute's eyes.

Though, sometimes there's that little exception. I don't think Birmingham was originally appealing in the researcher's eyes. It took a lot of money and a lot of work on Richard Shelby's part to get the industry going.

Also, it helps to reside in the second most powerful state in the Appropriations Committee in the House. Without Bud Cramer, there would be not research or aerospace in North Alabama. You have to substantially represented in congress in order to get that funding to go for this kind of stuff. Attracting institutes can be expensive. Huntsville didn't have a problem spending all of the money, because they knew for sure that if the researcher got enough money he would put it in Huntsville because the city is already appealing.

Now, I can't say how appealing Tally is, cause, I've never been there.

But, a final point, every major research region in the country is unique, all of them developed differently, history shapes future, and that's what these institutes look for. They like a lot of growth, and a modern setting, if you got that, and enough money to spend on attracting these things, they'll come.

[Florida]

I didn't say FSU's medical school, I said medical research. The stuff I've been reading about lately with FSU developing a 4D model of an HIV/AIDS virus that they could possibly use to create a vaccine. I wasn't sure if that was maglab stuff or chemistry stuff, but its surely groundbreaking.

[stjoe]

I didn't say FSU's medical school, I said medical research. The stuff I've been reading about lately with FSU developing a 4D model of an HIV/AIDS virus that they could possibly use to create a vaccine. I wasn't sure if that was maglab stuff or chemistry stuff, but its surely groundbreaking.

TJ,

Yes, groundbreaking, but in pure dollar figures, grants, creating spin offs, etc. There is not much to count on in terms of creating economic diversity in the town.

Can Tally just sit back and ride the coat tails of FSU (and govt jobs, state jobs, etc) forever. Yes, it can, but it will never compete with Austin, Raleigh, Madison, and become what this board often seems to shoot for, with the same old 1950s mentality towards high tech, higher ed, research, business.

[poonther]

So again I ask, HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED? We can moan and groan and biotch and say how terrible and backwards it all is, but that's been done for years. I'm seeking ACTION answers.....or do we need to do a study on that??