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mags

what are the causes of charleston's new growth?

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Another thread got me thinking about this. What are the reasons for the sudden interest in charleston? I mean charleston still has a lack of corporate interest. not many major headquarters here. Why the sudden influx? I've heard many vague answers but what do yall think?

And where do yall see charleston when the growth is done? What city would you compare charleston too as far as size when the growth slows. Will charleston be a major city one day?

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Well I think Charleston would have been experiencing the growth it's experiencing now earlier had it not been for Hugo and the base closure. People are really attracted to the coast these days, and not only retirees. Charleston might not be a corporate magnet, but the economy is pretty diverse. These days a lot of places that primarily used to cater to tourists are growing pretty rapidly, including Las Vegas and Orlando.

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Well I think Charleston would have been experiencing the growth it's experiencing now earlier had it not been for Hugo and the base closure. People are really attracted to the coast these days, and not only retirees. Charleston might not be a corporate magnet, but the economy is pretty diverse. These days a lot of places that primarily used to cater to tourists are growing pretty rapidly, including Las Vegas and Orlando.

yea, but i believe nothing brings growth like economics. If charleston could land a major headquarters or two then i think that would go a longs ways to towards making charleston a major city, if thats charlestons goal. I wonder, does charleston want to be a major city?

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People are attracted to Charleston because its Charleston. It has a rich history, its a very unique place, and its along the coast which is experiencing growth anyway. Charleston probably has the most potential of any city (of its size) in the region to become a major city in our lifetimes. I dont know if thats a goal or not, but i'm sure its crossed the minds of some.

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^So I guess the question could now be, why now? Charleston has always been Charleston, but hasn't been seeing the growth that it's been seeing since it was the center of Southern commerce and influence, well over 100 years ago. So what's driving the growth now?

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Charleston will continue to shoot for big time stardom, growth and fame and before you know it. 10-15 years from now Downtown Charleston will be nothing but a bunch of rich people. Most not even from Charleston, the islands will lose all of their indigenous character, and all of the true culture of Charleston and Charlestonians will be lost and nobody will give 2 craps about it. As long as it keeps making the rich richer.

Just like theyre trying to do with New Orleans.

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I disagree. The culture is not disappearing, but it IS changing, and thats not necessairly bad. Culture is not something you can percieve unless its different from yours.

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What do you mean when you say culture is not something that you can perceive unless its different from yours. I dont understand.

Also, what do you see to be the culture of Charleston. What exactly is it, and how is it changing.

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What do you mean when you say culture is not something that you can perceive unless its different from yours. I dont understand.

Also, what do you see to be the culture of Charleston. What exactly is it, and how is it changing.

I think what that means is You dont recognize a change in culture unless your not apart of that culture. pratically, i believe he is saying someone not from charleston would recognize the change in charlestons culture before charlestonians could recognize it because we're apart of the culture so the difference isn't appearant to us.

I dont think there's a need to really fear change, charleston is not gonna become NY. there are cities close to the size of ny that aren't ny. charleston will always be charleston, it may become a bigger version of charleston but in most cases people conform to the locals the locals dont confrom to the newcomers.

but, in the end there'll always be a percentage of humans that fear change and will fight progress. they serve a purpose because sometimes change can be a bad move but at the same time fear of change can just be a lead wieght holding back positive progress.

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I think what that means is You dont recognize a change in culture unless your not apart of that culture. pratically, i believe he is saying someone not from charleston would recognize the change in charlestons culture before charlestonians could recognize it because we're apart of the culture so the difference isn't appearant to us.

I dont think there's a need to really fear change, charleston is not gonna become NY. there are cities close to the size of ny that aren't ny. charleston will always be charleston, it may become a bigger version of charleston but in most cases people conform to the locals the locals dont confrom to the newcomers.

but, in the end there'll always be a percentage of humans that fear change and will fight progress. they serve a purpose because sometimes change can be a bad move but at the same time fear of change can just be a lead wieght holding back positive progress.

Right. Its easyier for outsiders to say its not like it was 10 years ago, maybe even locals too. But local people are what make the culture, regardless of whether or not they were born and raised in Charleston. So mags has it right. Its not that Charlestonians cant detect changes, but that they are a part of the change. They may not realize that its happening until it happens.

Also, the definition of culture, while it may be out there, is extremely difficult to define. Its particularly hard to define it broadly because everyone sees it differently. So- Charleston's culture is what you make of it. I think some people have an idealized version of what Charleston should be (old south, col. sanders guys, etc).

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No but my question is what do you view as the culture of Charleston. I ask that because you said that "its" not going anywhere, and that it is just changing. I wanna know what that "it" is for you, so I can respond accordingly.

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To be quite honest I dont know how to answer that question in a way that makes any sense.

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Well if you cant define it, how can you say that its not dying away?

I think alot of people want to automatically write off the notion that the so-called "development" of Charleston is wiping away important history and culture by saying "aww its not going anywhere, its just "changing"."

But what is this "it" you speak of ?? It seems as though we're referring to two different things.

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Well if you cant define it, how can you say that its not dying away?

I think alot of people want to automatically write off the notion that the so-called "development" of Charleston is wiping away important history and culture by saying "aww its not going anywhere, its just "changing"."

But what is this "it" you speak of ?? It seems as though we're referring to two different things.

with the invention of cars a part of "it" died but does that mean we should keep cars out of charleston. As historic as charleston is it isn't trully stuck in time, the poeple of charleston are as modern as anywhere eles. what people are holding onto is an illusion of the old south. Whats valuable and should be held onto in charleston are the beauty of the city itself, the food, the things like the baskets weavers on the market, and the history. I dont see those things going anywhere anytime soon. That other "culture" that people fear losing i couldn't really tell u what they are afraid of, I write it off as the usual fear of change that a lot of people fear all over the world. No matter how hard you try things are gonna change, but change doesn't equal losing something as long as people dont forget...

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Im not talking about that. Really has nothing to do with trying to keep the "old south".

And thats why I was trying to get him to be specific as to what he is talking about.

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Another thread got me thinking about this. What are the reasons for the sudden interest in charleston? I mean charleston still has a lack of corporate interest. not many major headquarters here. Why the sudden influx? I've heard many vague answers but what do yall think?

And where do yall see charleston when the growth is done? What city would you compare charleston too as far as size when the growth slows. Will charleston be a major city one day?

the interest in Charleston? big investments in downtown Real Estate...I would love to own a 6000 sf downtown Charleston home...even if I didn't live in it year-round; I would live there in the Spring & Spoleto season. Also, I thought Charleston was already a major Southeastern Seaport???

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Well if you cant define it, how can you say that its not dying away?

I don't see you offering any answers. How can you say it is changing or dying if you can't offer a definition either?

the interest in Charleston? big investments in downtown Real Estate...I would love to own a 6000 sf downtown Charleston home...even if I didn't live in it year-round; I would live there in the Spring & Spoleto season. Also, I thought Charleston was already a major Southeastern Seaport???

Well my friend, you have just met the qualification of all of the Yankees and other people who buy these expensive homes. Its becoming more and more common for people to do just that... buy a house and only live there during Spoleto.

Charleston IS a major seaport. Its the 4th largest port on the east cost by volume I think. And there are plans for additional capacity.

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I can definitely offer a definition. I was just trying to give you chance to speak your piece since you were the one that disputed what I said by saying "the culture is not disappearing, its just changing".

When I say the culture of Charleston, Im speaking about the inhabitants of Downtown Charleston, and the culture and lives of the people that live on the islands. Johns Island is on its way to being like Mount Pleasant, and Downtown is basically already gone. Mount Pleasant is just about gone.

My point is. I know the powers that be have never given it its proper respect and due. But the blatant honest truth is that the bulk of Charleston's REAL living history is African-American culture. The Gullah culture of Charleston is the only living breathing real life culture of Black people that still exists from Africa. Its the only one. Even New Orleanian culture cant compare.

And the "development" of Charleston pays no mind to this. As usual. But it is very important, and Downtown Charleston has historically always been a pretty even mix of people. Thats rapidly being lost. The islands, where the culture has been preserved all these years, are RAPIDLY being changed.

And we have places like Kiawah and Hilton Head as perfect examples of what happens when they let the so-called "development" run amuck.

Daniel Island can kiss it goodbye. MOUNT PLEASANT (no matter what they tell you) can kiss it goodbye. Johns Island is well on its way. And all the people that have lived in the city are all now being shipped at enormous rates INLAND, to the ghettos of North Charleston and Goose Creek, and Summerville.

Nobody that has power in the city of Charleston really cares. Its all about money. And just like I said, because New Orleans is a perfect example. Without the inhabitants, specifically the African-American people, the true face of New Orleans is forever lost. Charleston is just the same. The difference is Charleston never put the Black culture on display, they always hid it and got rich off of it at the same time. In New Orleans it was a visible contribution to the tourism. Outside of the Sweetgrass Baskets, Charleston basically acted like it didnt exist.

Now with all this so-called development, its basically a nail in the coffin of finishing off what was started. Its killing the true nature, rural life and the Gullah culture that existed on the islands. The face of Downtown is basically all but gone.

Like I said, in 10-15 years it will be no more. Im sure many of you see nothing wrong with that, but those of us that recognize the truth for what it is, see exactly whats happening. And its truly, truly, a sad thing.

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so really what you are saying is that the OLD culture is dying, and being replaced by a new one. my point is only that cultures don't just die (unless the masses are physically killed off). They change. new environments offer new ideas and new ways of life- thus there is change.

The OLD charleston was a culture of stagnation and backwards ways of life, and the city has suffered as a result. That is one of the reasons why it is not one of America's largest cities anylonger.

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Ghettos of North Charleston.. understandable... Goose Creek and Summerville are not... Just be cause you dont like the places is no reason to speak them down...

What "face" of downtown are you talking about.. when I was always there when I was little it was not even close to as good as it is today.. If changing the face of downtown means revitalizing it I am all for that.. All cities go through these phases.. why must Charleston be such an exception in so many people's minds..

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so really what you are saying is that the OLD culture is dying, and being replaced by a new one. my point is only that cultures don't just die (unless the masses are physically killed off). They change. new environments offer new ideas and new ways of life- thus there is change.

The OLD charleston was a culture of stagnation and backwards ways of life, and the city has suffered as a result. That is one of the reasons why it is not one of America's largest cities anylonger.

Youre not addressing what Im talking about. Youre talking about something else. What old culture do you speak of, and what is it being replaced with?? Youre being very vague, and Im talking about something very specific. What specifically was a culture of stagnation and backwards ways of life?? I can think of some things, but none of them include what I'M talking about. So again, be specific as to what youre talking about. Gullah culture has nothing to do with why Charleston has a stagnated way of life and why its no longer one of Americans largest cities. Youre talking about something different than I am.

Ghettos of North Charleston.. understandable... Goose Creek and Summerville are not... Just be cause you dont like the places is no reason to speak them down...

What "face" of downtown are you talking about.. when I was always there when I was little it was not even close to as good as it is today.. If changing the face of downtown means revitalizing it I am all for that.. All cities go through these phases.. why must Charleston be such an exception in so many people's minds..

I wasnt calling Goose Creek and Summerville ghettos. I said that about North Charleston, and the other two towns I was just saying thats where the majority of the population is being pushed. Inland, away from the indigenous areas. Where the true culture survives.

It just seems as though our culture is not given the same respect as any other American culture. Nobody really cares, as evident in your responses. I named something very specific, and neither of you really addressed it. I just feel like people dont really give a you know what, because they feel like they dont have to. And its a very very sad thing. As far as African-Americans are concerned, Gullah culture is the ONLY real African culture left in the entire country hands down. The only one. That alone makes it extremely important.

And that doesnt even include the huge majority of culture we have contributed to Charleston, the entire Lowcountry, and the nation itself with everything from everyday words we use to food to architechture. For Charleston to have gotten as wealthy as it has over the past 350 years. Its a very sad state of our society if we live in the year 2006, almost 2007 and we still cant seem to give respect to the things we've deliberately capitalized off and things that are directly responsible for the comfort we live in today. Specifically in the city of Charleston. Charleston, South Carolina is the posterboy for that in America.

Lets be frank. When people come to visit Charleston, the tourism that runs our economy, they come to see the city that was the King of slavery all throughout the colonial period. The main city in America that maintained alot of its character from that time period when every place else in the country changed with time. This is the truth we all know to be true. This is what people come to see.

Land, and habitat. This is primarily important to culture. Especially the culture of the Lowcountry. Land is principally important, because it is the main reason the culture was maintained. Land is everything in the context of this situation. As far as Charleston is concerned, the Charleston Single House, the wealth and prosperity of the city, the fame and fortune is a direct result of the people and presence of the culture. As logical, civilized people living in the year 2006, why is it that we cant be thoughtful enough, reasonable enough, and caring enough to give due respect to our people. All of our people, not just some.

Whats going on now in Charleston is uninhibited development, with absolutely no regard or second thought for any of the Gullah people, places, or history of these areas, just free for all development. And its just wrong. I dont really see how this can be denied. Anyone thats a true Charlestonian would love for the city to be developed just as much and as good as anyplace else. But the situation is very complex. Its not just a yes or no, true or false, black or white situation. There are certain things we need to give proper care, respect, and attention to, in ADDITION to our development.

And I dont really see that happening. A few attempts here and there. But by and large, nothing. Just greedy development.

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And for the sake of what. Thats the real question. You got the guy, I cant think of his name right now, but they closed down the Bank Of America on King Street at the head of Cannon Street. What is that he's supposed to be building there again?? Condos or something like that. lol.gif **shakes head**

Tearing down Marion Square and condos there too? Correct me if Im wrong because I dont remember the exact details, but to me it just sees like I just see where this is heading. Its not looking good. I just wonder where on the peninsula will the working class people live in the next 10-15 years.

Another thing I find ironic. And I havent seen it pointed out in the news anywhere. But, its funny, the crime of Downtown Charleston, in the midst of all this so-called development, is now worse than it has ever been. It was never this bad. All those years when it was a real community the crime was never like it is now. They got rid of all the park football and basketball programs for the children. Summer programs. They no longer exist. I havent seen anybody make mention of that. But if we really care, these are serious issues we need to take a look at.

But in all truth and honesty its a done deal. Theres nothing that can be done about it. It is what it is. And I just think I plan on moving to Savannah sometime in the future.

No Im kidding Ima always live in Charleston. I plan on doing some development on my own land in Mount Pleasant. I pray for Charleston. I hope Downtown Charleston soars to great heights. I hope my city as a whole gets bigger.

But ALSO, ALONG with that, I also hope we give JUST as much enthusiasm to maintaining our identity, we need our rural lands and islands. We NEED to preserve that. Theres nothing up for debate.

We need rural parts of Mount Pleasant. We need places like Snowden. Highway 41. We NEED Johns Island to not get run over by development. We need to take care of our city cuz time goes on. And who would wanna look back 50 years later face the fact that all the things that made us special and different from everybody else is now gone.

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And for the sake of what. Thats the real question. You got the guy, I cant think of his name right now, but they closed down the Bank Of America on King Street at the head of Cannon Street. What is that he's supposed to be building there again?? Condos or something like that. lol.gif **shakes head**

Tearing down Marion Square and condos there too? Correct me if Im wrong because I dont remember the exact details, but to me it just sees like I just see where this is heading. Its not looking good. I just wonder where on the peninsula will the working class people live in the next 10-15 years.

Another thing I find ironic. And I havent seen it pointed out in the news anywhere. But, its funny, the crime of Downtown Charleston, in the midst of all this so-called development, is now worse than it has ever been. It was never this bad. All those years when it was a real community the crime was never like it is now. They got rid of all the park football and basketball programs for the children. Summer programs. They no longer exist. I havent seen anybody make mention of that. But if we really care, these are serious issues we need to take a look at.

But in all truth and honesty its a done deal. Theres nothing that can be done about it. It is what it is. And I just think I plan on moving to Savannah sometime in the future.

No Im kidding Ima always live in Charleston. I plan on doing some development on my own land in Mount Pleasant. I pray for Charleston. I hope Downtown Charleston soars to great heights. I hope my city as a whole gets bigger.

But ALSO, ALONG with that, I also hope we give JUST as much enthusiasm to maintaining our identity, we need our rural lands and islands. We NEED to preserve that. Theres nothing up for debate.

We need rural parts of Mount Pleasant. We need places like Snowden. Highway 41. We NEED Johns Island to not get run over by development. We need to take care of our city cuz time goes on. And who would wanna look back 50 years later face the fact that all the things that made us special and different from everybody else is now gone.

Your missing some facts for those projects you talked about... On the site of the former Bank of America, there is a possibility of the bank coming back into the developement, I believe that project is intended to be mixed use not just condos which are, by the way, helping to bring population back downtown. Also, you mentioned projects surrounding Marion Square, what they are tearing down is the Millenium music building, which isnt much of a loss and building a mixed-use 8 story building with ground level retail which is really helpful to the area on the other side they are tearing down the ugly former Charleston County library for a hotel with ground level retail, again, nothing is being lost with that project and it is in fact helping the park. In fact summer programs do still exist, my aunt works for the city recreation program and actually has a nationally acclaimed "Courting Kids" program there and if any were lost it was because of lost of interest by kids not because the city wants to get rid of these programs. That's a general trend happening with youth around the country though not just charleston.

About the working class on the peninsula, it won't be possibly without pushing density, something alot of people are fighting, in any metro it is hard to find a single family home in the city's core affordable to the working class and Charleston right now just doesnt have enough alternatives which is something that will come as Berkeley and Dorchester County hopefully establish developement boundries.

About Rural lands, I think it is also hard to hold onto within a certain proximity to the city, John's Island, Daniel Island, and Mount Pleasant are all close in proximity so there fore they are likely places for developement or else we will have an unbalanced Metro area like we already do to some degree (ie. developement past Summerville/Goose Creek) , and part of that reason is restriction of places like john's island that can absorb some developement of its northern side.

I do think that preservation is important to some degree, but overdoing it makes for a nasty situation like patchworked sprawl and high housing prices.. areas we already arent good at... this is by no means is in an argumentive tone... but I do think this is a good discussion, correct me if I'm wrong or missing some points..

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I'm just a Yankee with a bit of interest in South Carolina. Actually, development in general. I was wondering if L is African-American because if the general population of Charleston is that well informed of its African Heritage then I would consider it to be a very progressive city. Next, I would attribute Charleston growth to its seaport. International Trade in general has exploded since globalization has expanded. Charleston and Savannah being the primary deep water port cities will continue to benefit from that. In fact, the NY/NJ Port Authority is racing to keep up with the port depths down there. Finally, I would suggest that the growth is due to the stronge history that exists in the city. Americans are in a move back to the urban environment in general and having a strong downtown/central city is key. Charleston is merely riding a national trend. Then again, I'm just a Yankee.

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I'm just a Yankee with a bit of interest in South Carolina. Actually, development in general. I was wondering if L is African-American because if the general population of Charleston is that well informed of its African Heritage then I would consider it to be a very progressive city. Next, I would attribute Charleston growth to its seaport. International Trade in general has exploded since globalization has expanded. Charleston and Savannah being the primary deep water port cities will continue to benefit from that. In fact, the NY/NJ Port Authority is racing to keep up with the port depths down there. Finally, I would suggest that the growth is due to the stronge history that exists in the city. Americans are in a move back to the urban environment in general and having a strong downtown/central city is key. Charleston is merely riding a national trend. Then again, I'm just a Yankee.

I can't speak for the general population, but anyone with any historical knowledge of the city knows that it has a very strong african-american heritage. The city was a strong majority african-american for many decades before and after the Civil War. They have a new african-american heritage museum that is either open, or it will open soon.

Your notion that growth is occuring because of the history is probably dead on. People want to be a part of Charleston, and what better way than living where it all happened: the old city.

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