Who Killed the Electric Car?

[JDC]

Anyone here seen this film? I saw it a few nights ago. It takes a fairly balanced look at the electric car's popularity in California and the many factors that led to their eventual extinction. Although there is no one guilty party, it seems the oil industry, federal government and auto industry had a lot to do with the electric vehicle's demise. It also picks apart the misconceptions surrounding hydrogen fuel cells.

[Mith242]

Anyone here seen this film? I saw it a few nights ago. It takes a fairly balanced look at the electric car's popularity in California and the many factors that led to their eventual extinction. Although there is no one guilty party, it seems the oil industry, federal government and auto industry had a lot to do with the electric vehicle's demise. It also picks apart the misconceptions surrounding hydrogen fuel cells.

I certainly can believe the oil industry had something to do with it. I mean look at how they operate. Continuing record profits but they don't spend money on upkeep (BP). And now it looks like a couple of oil companies are being out of one country because they haven't paid taxes. Nice to see these companies are shoving these record profits in their pockets instead of other things.

[Nitro]

I certainly can believe the oil industry had something to do with it. I mean look at how they operate. Continuing record profits but they don't spend money on upkeep (BP). And now it looks like a couple of oil companies are being out of one country because they haven't paid taxes. Nice to see these companies are shoving these record profits in their pockets instead of other things.

BP is actually very advanced in developing alternative fuel technology. I don't know what their deal is in Alaska but BP is far in front of any other oil company in developing new technology including solar.

[Snowguy716]

Yeah, BP is probably the most forward thinking of the major oil companies. While it is obvious that they are just trying to get a head start so thtat the oil companies can continue to do business in an alternative energy world, it's good to see that they're not so short sighted and that they're actually looking past the end of oil for their company's viability.

Now it's too bad that they don't maintain their pipeline.. but I don't think it was 100% their fault. Either way, BP is still a huge oil company and should be looked at skeptically.. but I'm glad to see them thinking outside of the very narrow, small box that dominates oil company agendas.

[Weltenbummler]

acually, nobody "Killed" the electric car mor than all the other inventions made before or doing that time or after.

It's all part of the very powerful stockholders, who actually run the country.

I'll just remind you're all of those Inventors and famous people, who got "Kicked out"

of Business or died a "mysterios death":

Mr.Tucker

Tom Ogle of El Paso/Texas

and there is the "BIO-Diesel" Fuel in Germany invented by the End 1980'th

even Volkswagen invented a carburator, what can run on coal ( 1943)

Volkswagen now produces a Model with a 3 cylinder engine, what makes 78 MPG

and that car is in massproduction since 1998 (not available in the US)

in 2002 Volkswagen built a prototype makes 270 MPG ( to expensive to built )

I don't believe , that BP didn't know about their pipelines, and that is just used as an excuse to raise the gas prices the same way, they raised the gas prices after hurricane Kathrina in 2005.

Matterfact, the gas price is even now higher than after hurricane kathrina, and they just looking for an excuse to raise the gas price.

And I even think further, because the stockholders who owns stock in the automobil industry own stock somewhere else ( Oil industry) , and what is happend with the US Auto industry?

They dont do very good.

so, here's the Trick, how it works:

... There is so many cars from the 1970'th 1980'th and 1990'th still on the road, who runs good (specially in New Mexico....no rust) and look good, and the automobil industry is not able to sell enough new cars.

Now the gas prices are getting higher, and suddently the "good guys" the automobil industry has the solutions in offering cars who makes 30 MPG to fight the "bad guys" the oil industry with their high gas prices.

and it works, because both are making record profits:

the automobil industry in selling more cars

and

the oil industry in making more profit on each gallon.

*LOL* Porsche invented in the 1920/30'th a car the Volkswagen Beetle what makes 30 MPG

and Volkswagen built and sold since 1976 a Volkswagen Golf Diesel, what makes 50 MPG *LOL*

what great success, to have cars now, and do advertisement, to reach 30 or 35 MPG in the year 2006

....in Germany you can buy since 8 years a small Volkswagen, what makes 78 MPG

The filfthy rich people who own stock in the automobil industry also own stock in the oil industry and now they are even making 3 times the profit or more and laughting all the way to the bank.

and that there are connections though is prooven:

Ford own stock in Firestone stocks, and firestone owns ford stocks, as well as Ford Members married Firestone familiy members and so on.

The high gas prices are done on purpose.

they just want to create a "man made demend" to by new cars.

Downside of the high milage cars: .... the less gas is used and sold, the more the gas prices has to raise, so the oil-industry can make still their big huge profits....and not to mention the IRS and the government, who also makes money with every gallon sold in taxes.

Thats the reason, why gas is now almost $ 7.oo a Gallon in Germany and the salestax will become

19 % effective January 2007.

It's all about money

....nothing else!

Gruss

[carolinadude9409]

I thought George W. Bush, his adminstration, and the oil companies killed the electric car.

[Weltenbummler]

I thought George W. Bush, his adminstration, and the oil companies killed the electric car.

No,...Mr. George W. Bush is "just" the "Guy", who announces and force the desicons through,

what the "big big guys" decides, and makes that public and stays public as a person.

And those "big guys" ....matterfact its more Stockholding companies and so on...

are behind the "big curtain". You're really dont know exactly, who thery are, because its

probably hundreds or thousands, but they dont want to be known in public, when there is unfavorable

decisions made.

Its the same with the "Mandatory car insurance law".... it was not the polticians, who force that through,

it was the insurance companies and their sponsors directly, who sponsored a politician ( or more politicians)who than "made" that law, and everbody thinks, it was the politicians.

The Insurance companies so keep their "good Name" and thats all their want!

Forcing the laws in their interest,s but dont want to be known, that in reality that this was them though.

Mr. Bush as well as every president worldwide is nothing alone by himself, when it comes to power.

Every president has to go along with the big guys, the Insurance companies, the big stockholding companies, so the "guys" who has the money, and who he knowes ect.ect.

Same is going on in Germany with President Mrs. Angela Merkel.

She is nothing, just a "Aush

[Mith242]

I'm not trying to say BP is all evil and such. But I just find it incredible that in times of oil companies having record profits quarter after quarter that BP failed to spend maintenance on upkeep of their pipeline. I believe some of the maintenance hadn't been done in 20 years in some cases. They had to know there was going to be a problem at some point and that it was something that was going to go off at any moment.

[dtown]

I think the electric car killed its self. Its kinda impractical for anything more than city driving. It can only go a small(compared to gasoline vehicles) distance before having to find an electic socket to get recharged. Plus, they cant carry very large loads, and they are generally very small cars. Just not what most people are looking for.

[Nitro]

90% of my driving is done in town on surface streets. I live about 15 minutes from where I work and I don't have to take any highways to get here. I'd love to buy one of the GEM electrics, although it isn't practical for winter driving. Our city bought a couple of GEM's for the parking meter enforcement crew.

[Weltenbummler]

90% of my driving is done in town on surface streets. I live about 15 minutes from where I work and I don't have to take any highways to get here. I'd love to buy one of the GEM electrics, although it isn't practical for winter driving.

You live in Michigan, right?

did you know, that those electric toy cars have no heater!

I know, how harsch a MI-Winter can be.

Our city bought a couple of GEM's for the parking meter enforcement crew.

paid with taxpayers money to get more money from the taxpayers

...

shame on every city, who employs people who making live harder.

[JDC]

I thought George W. Bush, his adminstration, and the oil companies killed the electric car.

While he can't take all the blame for this one, his administration is as deep in oil as the wildlife killed in the Exxon-Valdese spill.

[Nitro]

I got caught up on a backlog of reading this weekend. This article talks a little bit about the failures of GM's EV-1. Linky

In a nutshell it's the author's contention that GM focused too much on marketing it's environmental features and not enough on it's impact to consumers.

[turbocraig]

Who killed the electric car? Henry Ford with his assembly line and subsequent rock-bottom pricing. At the turn of the last century, there were plenty of powertrain choices: gas, steam, electric, and yes.. hybrid. The internal combustion engine won out because it happened to be what Henry the First used for his cars. Had he designed his cars around an alternative power source, we'd have a much different automobile culture today. By the time other carmakers caught on to the manufacturing efficiencies and economies of scale of the assembly line process, Ford had dominated the market with its gas-powered cars. Those steam, electric, and hybrid makers faded into the annulls of history, and only those that offered a similar gas-powered product (i.e. GM and Dodge Brothers/Chrysler) were to survive, since that's what the car-buying public had come to expect en masse.

I traded a Saab 9-3 SE Convertible for a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid and couldn't be happier. It may have taken a century, but we once again have a choice and a voice. Make yours heard!

[Nitro]

The internal combustion engine won out because it happened to be what Henry the First used for his cars. Had he designed his cars around an alternative power source, we'd have a much different automobile culture today.

Well, he kind of did. You may want to go back and check your facts.

Ford was a huge proponent of Ethanol as fuel instead of gasoline. He lost out because everyone else was using a gas engine.

Think of where we would be today if Henry won the Ethanol battle.

[turbocraig]

Ah, yes.. you are correct Nitro. Thanks for pointing that out. Serves me right for reciting info someone told me this past Saturday without verifying it online first. Maybe my wine-soaked ears had something to do with that. That leads me to a couple of questions that you may be able to answer: Why did Henry succumb to big oil? He was certainly capable of coming up with solutions to just about every facet of manufacturing. His River Rouge plant literally had raw materials come in the front, and cars come out the back. I'm curious to know why he didn't implement and/or strengthen the network of ethyl fueling stations to support that industry's superior product since he believed so strongly in it. Secondly, could he have modified his engines to run exclusively on ethyl alcohol and not gasoline? Modern gas engines that aren't FFV won't run on ethanol, so couldn't the reverse be true? It seems that he had the shear numbers on his side to make whatever he wanted to work, work.

[Nitro]

You raise good questions, to which I cannot answer. Some of those answers may be lost to history.

You are correct in saying that he could produce, mine, manufacturer, or grow anything he needed for his work. It's a wonder he didn't try to muscle in a bit and get his way. My only guess is that he didn't yet have the clout to jocky for the ethanol motor when he proposed it. By the time he did, the wheels were set too far in motion for them to backtrack.

There are far better reasons to rail Ford for the things he did. History has been kind to a person with as many nasty sides as what he had.

[bmorescottamanda]

Who killed the electric car? Henry Ford with his assembly line and subsequent rock-bottom pricing. At the turn of the last century, there were plenty of powertrain choices: gas, steam, electric, and yes.. hybrid. The internal combustion engine won out because it happened to be what Henry the First used for his cars. Had he designed his cars around an alternative power source, we'd have a much different automobile culture today. By the time other carmakers caught on to the manufacturing efficiencies and economies of scale of the assembly line process, Ford had dominated the market with its gas-powered cars. Those steam, electric, and hybrid makers faded into the annulls of history, and only those that offered a similar gas-powered product (i.e. GM and Dodge Brothers/Chrysler) were to survive, since that's what the car-buying public had come to expect en masse.

I traded a Saab 9-3 SE Convertible for a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid and couldn't be happier. It may have taken a century, but we once again have a choice and a voice. Make yours heard!

That's bull

[dpbaker]

Now, this is cool:

GM Hy-wire

But will it ever come to fruition?

[Jerseyman4]

But will it ever come to fruition?

[tamias6]

Now, this is cool:

GM Hy-wire

But will it ever come to fruition?

[Captain Worley]

Henry went with gas because ethanol has horrible cold start properties, and eats rubber like crazy.

Hydrogen isn't the future unless there is a huge breakthrough (gigantic, colossal breakthrough) in producing it cheaply. I recently read a government sponsored paper on the infrastructure needs for hydrogen vehicles. They are predicting 187,000 vehicles out of 17,000,000 produced will be hydrogen fueled. No way can this population support the needed station every 50 miles. It is a pipe dream.

However, they should continue research because they might just find the key to cheap production.

The gas engine killing the electric car was the very best thing that could happen to our society. Imagine the number of electrical plants that would be neeeded to support all those electric cars.

[dtown]

Three things need to happen.

1. Find a cost effective way to produce hydrogen.

2. Put a comprehencive infrustructure in place to allow these vehicles to be recharged/refueled anywhere like gas stations.

3. Cost of buying and maintaining a hydrogen fuel cell car needs to be compititive with a regular gas driven counterpart.

So if hydogen is the silver bullet fuel of the future, I'd say it will come in 50 years.

[MadVlad]

From what I've heard, when cars were developing in the early 20th century, Detroit was the leading car maker in the country, but Hartford was leading in the electric car manufacturing. Detroit won, but I always imagine what could have happened if the electric car had caught on instead of the gas powered model. (This is all only what I've heard, I have absolutely no web sites or links to back up my story).

[Captain Worley]

I don't think the power grid in the early 20th century could have sustained the demand electrics would have caused. It couldn't sustain even 10% of all cars on the road being electric now.

I keep hoping that electrics will get better, but the internal combstion engine has huge advantages over electrics.