Do you think Islam is the enemy?

[monsoon]

Indeed. Saddam ran, what I believe, was the only secular government in the region. His cabinent included Christians which is something you will not find with any of the other governments in the Middle East.

[Mith242]

Indeed. Saddam ran, what I believe, was the only secular government in the region. His cabinent included Christians which is something you will not find with any of the other governments in the Middle East.

Yeah it's one of the reasons why the US supported him for a while. It's a shame that the only secular government in that area ended up like this. It certainly didn't end up being a good role model for the other countries to follow.

[somad]

Yeah it's one of the reasons why the US supported him for a while. It's a shame that the only secular government in that area ended up like this. It certainly didn't end up being a good role model for the other countries to follow.

So if a country's government is secular that gives it free reign to have rape rooms, gas and jail dissidents, and keep a despot in power?

[monsoon]

So if a country's government is secular that gives it free reign to have rape rooms, gas and jail dissidents, and keep a despot in power?

Indeed, we have no idea if these things even existed there or not under Saddam We only have Bush's word for it and we all know what that is worth. He lied about WMDs and nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that he didn't lie about everything else he said Saddam was doing.

But what we do know, those things exist in the Bush/Rumsfield Iraq. Our behavior there is a disgrace and I don't know how any American could support the American tragedy known as Iraq. It has replaced Vietnam as one of the most disgraceful periods of our history. (except it is still going on) The only thing we can do now is to vote out the beotchs that supported it in the first place and hope they impeach Bush.

[somad]

Indeed, we have no idea if these things even existed there or not under Saddam We only have Bush's word for it and we all know what that is worth. He lied about WMDs and nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that he didn't lie about everything else he said Saddam was doing.

But what we do know, those things exist in the Bush/Rumsfield Iraq. Our behavior there is a disgrace and I don't know how any American could support the American tragedy known as Iraq. It has replaced Vietnam as one of the most disgraceful periods of our history. (except it is still going on) The only thing we can do now is to vote out the beotchs that supported it in the first place and hope they impeach Bush.

The gassing of the Kurds happened in the 1980s and it is widely known to have happened, we have found mass graves (some of which containing the remains of Iraqis who celebrated Saddam's downfall during Gulf War I only for us to stop at the border), you have no proof that there were no WMDs (just as there there's no proof that there were any). For all we know the WMDs were trucked out of the country before the invasion. It is widely known that Sadaam's sons had their way with Iraqi women. Why is it that in the late 1990s so many of our elected officials were all for the removal of Sadaam? Dubya had no influence on the intelligence at that point.

Are you saying that the Iraqis elected a despotic government, that any dissedents are either gassed or jailed, and that there are rape rooms on the scale that they were at when Sadaam was in power? There is so much to go against Bush for doing, there's no reason to deny what happened in the past to advance one's political agenda.

[Gusterfell]

The gassing of the Kurds happened in the 1980s and it is widely known to have happened, we have found mass graves (some of which containing the remains of Iraqis who celebrated Saddam's downfall during Gulf War I only for us to stop at the border), you have no proof that there were no WMDs (just as there there's no proof that there were any). For all we know the WMDs were trucked out of the country before the invasion. It is widely known that Sadaam's sons had their way with Iraqi women. Why is it that in the late 1990s so many of our elected officials were all for the removal of Sadaam? Dubya had no influence on the intelligence at that point.

The gassing of the Kurds took place using American-made chemical weapons supplied by the Reagan administration. Notice that the Bush administration has always avoided this particular argument like the plague.

Bush Sr. "stopped at the border" because he know that Saddam's government was the only thing keeping the peace in Iraq. He knew that toppling Saddam would lead to the mess we are in today, and it has been revealed that he warned his son to that effect before the invasion.

The burden of proof for WMDs lies in the hands of the accuser, not the accused. It is absurd to assert that the lack of evidence that no crime was committed is grounds for conviction.

Are you saying that the Iraqis elected a despotic government, that any dissedents are either gassed or jailed, and that there are rape rooms on the scale that they were at when Sadaam was in power? There is so much to go against Bush for doing, there's no reason to deny what happened in the past to advance one's political agenda.

The Iraqis did elect Saddam, on several occasions. The elections there were only slightly more suspect than the last couple elections in this country. Dissidents were killed or jailed, and female dissidents were raped under Saddam, and all this is still happeneing in US-occupied Iraq. Evidence of unjust imprisonment, rape, and murder under our watch are public knowledge already, and people who are privy to still classified information have intimated that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg of what's going on in Iraqi prisons today.

Yes, Saddam was horrible. However, what we are doing to Iraq is also horrible, and the fact that poll after poll shows that most Iraqis were happier under Saddam speaks volumes.

[monsoon]

Well put Gusterfell. There was absolutely no excuse for us to have gone with war with that country and our botched occupation is causing the death of more Iraqis every day than it did under Saddam. It's a deplorable situation caused by Republican Facists. I don't know how anyone could honestly justify what we are doing over there.

[Mith242]

So if a country's government is secular that gives it free reign to have rape rooms, gas and jail dissidents, and keep a despot in power?

No, that's not what I meant. I was trying to say it's a shame that instead of being a good model for a secular government that it probably just made more Muslims think they should go for a religious backed government.