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Area 4/Area 5 Development

joeDowntown

By joeDowntown
in Grand Rapids

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Yeah, $1.5M was a lot of money downtown 10 years ago, when I was looking to buy the building that later became the BOB for just $35K, but I wish I could find a piece of property downtown for $1.5M today. I do think the city should be happy with anything above $2.25M though.

ANYONE know of any good property available downtown in that price range?

For what kind of use flawless? Are you asking between the $1.5 - $2.25M price range?

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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The Business Journal has an interesting analysis of KG Development's proposed purchase of Area 4 and 5 lots. The $1.5 Million "net cash" price for Area 4 lot would include GIVING the city 445 parking spaces in the ramp at no cost. Since the city has talked about needing a new ramp in the Heartside District that would probably cost $27,000/space (like the Commerce ramp scheduled to be built), that would cost in the $10Million range. I would say KG's offer is a very good deal. There may be something I'm missing?? Anyone else read this yet?

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/20...oth+Or+None.htm

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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The Business Journal has an interesting analysis of KG Development's proposed purchase of Area 4 and 5 lots. The $1.5 Million "net cash" price for Area 4 lot would include GIVING the city 445 parking spaces in the ramp at no cost. Since the city has talked about needing a new ramp in the Heartside District that would probably cost $27,000/space (like the Commerce ramp scheduled to be built), that would cost in the $10Million range. I would say KG's offer is a very good deal. There may be something I'm missing?? Anyone else read this yet?

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/20...oth+Or+None.htm

I thought they offered $3 Million for lot 4 and $1.5 M for lot 5.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I thought they offered $3 Million for lot 4 and $1.5 M for lot 5.

You're right. A "net" price of $1.5 M(what they're calling it) for Area 5, and $3 M for Area 4. I also just read that they are offering 295 spaces to the city, not 445 spaces, in the new condo/retail development. The parking commission has said they need 460 on that site.

Area 4 (theater) would include 860 parking spaces, which I would assume would all be considered "public"?.

I need a spreadsheet to get this straight. :blush:

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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You're right. A "net" price of $1.5 M(what they're calling it) for Area 5, and $3 M for Area 4. I also just read that they are offering 295 spaces to the city, not 445 spaces. The parking commission has said they need 460 on that site.

'net' means something else to me, and I haven't read the GRBJ yet, but from my understanding of what I've read here KG's deal went from being pretty sweet to terrible. They will pay $1.5M and then build a $10M dollar ramp and just give it to the city with out restrictions? Too good to be true. My best guess is that parking won't be included with their condos and residents who want it will have to rent it directly from the city.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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'net' means something else to me, and I haven't read the GRBJ yet, but from my understanding of what I've read here KG's deal went from being pretty sweet to terrible. They will pay $1.5M and then build a $10M dollar ramp and just give it to the city with out restrictions? Too good to be true. My best guess is that parking won't be included with their condos and residents who want it will have to rent it directly from the city.

Nope, it says that 150 parking spaces of the 445 will be reserved for condo owners (86 condos), which leaves the 295 for public parking. The article states:

The firm has offered the city a

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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GRDad, do you think the odds are still good that this development will happen?

Sounds like it's all going to hinge on the movie theater:

Movie theater project shrinks

I can agree that there is not a HUGE downtown population, but don't theaters pull from a couple mile radius at least? Unless they're competing with the possible theater in the Walker development.

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CK1 Whistle-Stop

CK1

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Sounds like it's all going to hinge on the movie theater:

Movie theater project shrinks

I can agree that there is not a HUGE downtown population, but don't theaters pull from a couple mile radius at least? Unless they're competing with the possible theater in the Walker development.

Hasn't it been said on here before that none of the area theaters is really doing all that well? Tossing up a new theater doesn't create that many new patrons, it just cannablizes from others in the area. I would think that a downtown theater would pull from almost all the area screens.

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mpchicago Burg

mpchicago

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None of this makes any sense. I thought Jack Loeks said that a downtown theatre wasn't even viable? Why is he involved now? I think the bottom line is he wants to protect his other locations, and by being involved he can control the situation. I suspect he is behind the possible reduction in screens. Somthing fishy is going on.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Considering that nothing has been reported by Jay Fowler (DDA) regarding this proposed project, and that he hasn't heard from the developer in a while, I think it might be time to think about what else could go on the theater location. My idea: an Urban Meijer prototype.

Here's why:

1) It would help fill a need for amenities for not only downtown residents, but also the near-downtown residents who now have to go quite a ways to get groceries/necessities.

2) It could help provide hundreds of jobs for people in the Heartside and downtown areas, much like the Van Andel Arena concessions does.

3) It would help draw other retail to that development and maybe to Ionia, Commerce and Grandville (Meijer tends to do that).

4) It's right in Meijer's backyard, so it would give them a showplace for other urban stores. Wal-Mart is rolling out urban stores.

5) It would help keep the downtown momentum moving, because it removes one of the big objections for people looking at moving downtown.

6) Even convention goers and visitors need necessities occasionally.

Of course, it would have to be an urban store, with parking above the structure much like the theater design has now. At two stories of about 50,000 square feet each, that would make for a nice 100,000 square foot store. And the area under the highway could be used for truck staging and docking.

What do you guys think? I'm not getting a good feeling about the prospects for a movie theater. -_- Maybe I can talk tamias6 into drawing up a rendering for visualization. :whistling:

area52mj8.jpg

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starrfish Whistle-Stop

starrfish

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Considering that nothing has been reported by Jay Fowler (DDA) regarding this proposed project, and that he hasn't heard from the developer in a while, I think it might be time to think about what else could go on the theater location. My idea: an Urban Meijer prototype.

...

What do you guys think? I'm not getting a good feeling about the prospects for a movie theater. -_- Maybe I can talk tamias6 into drawing up a rendering for visualization. :whistling:

[img snip]

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numstead Hamlet

numstead

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I designed a KMart for downtown Detroit, specifically the Hudson's site, during my last undergrad studio. I've probably mentioned this before and said I would post a rendering but never got around to it. The images are on a CD at home so I'll have to get around to it later.

I like the idea though. I'd shop there.

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mgreven Hamlet

mgreven

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I'd go, too. But I still want that movie theatre! I really hope it isn't dead...it would get me going to the movies more. Some inexpensive entertainment downtown that going on every night of the week would be so great! Dinner and a movie would be so much better than in the suburbs....that idea bores me so much that we usually just rent.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I think it's a fantastic idea (if I don't say so myself). I believe it would also add more tax base and employment to Grand Rapids then a theater, Meijer is very philanthropic even at the individual store level, and I think movie theaters are probably a dying breed (as Mayor Heartwell also voiced his concerns about).

Plus (I'll probably get slapped for this) I think a movie theater downtown will end up being a hangout for trouble makers, as opposed to a nice family/young professional/college student destination. Even on some nights, the suburban theaters and malls get a little too "raucous". Anyone else think that may be a potential problem?

Yes, people have gotten robbed in certain Meijer parking lots, but it's not the same as mass crowds of teenagers loitering, causing trouble and driving away customers like I think a theater would do.

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