Area 4/Area 5 Development

[torgo]

I think it's a fantastic idea (if I don't say so myself). I believe it would also add more tax base and employment to Grand Rapids then a theater, Meijer is very philanthropic even at the individual store level, and I think movie theaters are probably a dying breed (as Mayor Heartwell also voiced his concerns about).

Plus (I'll probably get slapped for this) I think a movie theater downtown will end up being a hangout for trouble makers, as opposed to a nice family/young professional/college student destination. Even on some nights, the suburban theaters and malls get a little too "raucous". Anyone else think that may be a potential problem?

Yes, people have gotten robbed in certain Meijer parking lots, but it's not the same as mass crowds of teenagers loitering, causing trouble and driving away customers like I think a theater would do.

[twoshort]

I think a movie theater downtown will end up being a hangout for trouble makers <snip> Even on some nights, the suburban theaters and malls get a little too "raucous".

[GRDadof3]

I also think a Meijer in that location would be a good idea. It doesnt even have to be a full-blown Meijer either; a scaled down-version could work too.

I disagree with your comment about troublemakers. Using that logic, we shouldn't be happy about new bars, student housing, etc because they can get "raucious" too. Just because some places get rowdy doesn't mean they can't make a positive contribution to the DT "scene".

I agree that movie theaters are on the way out. I would be surprised if this project moved forward

[grrwymg]

I won't step foot in Woodland Mall on a weekend evening anymore.

[Rizzo]

See, I knew I'd get slapped. Movie theaters are different than bars or student housing or even the crowds for hockey games, and you guys know it. Don't pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. Large crowds of 12 - 16 year olds at night are not exactly fun to be around.

I won't step foot in Woodland Mall on a weekend evening anymore.

[Veloise]

Haha! Here ya go starrfish: ...

[grcitydog]

I think the Meijer idea downtown is great! I know the biggest concern for Meijer though, will be parking. People with lots of groceries can't go too far on foot, it's a matter of logistics, and a ramp on the roof could be expensive and not contain a whole lot of vehicles. An idea to mitigate some of this would be to offer employees free bus passes, since the store would be right next to Central Station. The proximity to the station would also also be good for customers, especially those who could pick up a few items between transfers. With all the activity happening in that area of downtown, I can't think of a better idea for the space and it just might start more downtown retail. BTW, I would shop there too, any Meijer store from East Hills area is kind of far.

[numstead]

as promised...

The concept was an urban Kmart, built on the old Hudson's Department Store site on Woodward in Detroit, with two towers at either end of the property. One tower was to be a new headquarters for Kmart (this was just as they were announcing their merger with Sears) and the other was to be a hotel.

[civitas]

as promised...

The concept was an urban Kmart, built on the old Hudson's Department Store site on Woodward in Detroit, with two towers at either end of the property. One tower was to be a new headquarters for Kmart (this was just as they were announcing their merger with Sears) and the other was to be a hotel.

[jwazzz]

GRDad - Downtown Meijers - brilliant. I would shop there as would countless others from the center city. Urban locations are the next wave and they could even go one better and beat Whole Foods to the punch by going a little upscale - other retail would be sure to follow and the benefit to downtown would be enormous. The movie theater idea is still a good one but if given a choice, I'd vote for the Meijers.

[civitas]

Home Depot has discussed an urban store in portland more than once.

But GR isn't portland. Urban retail is a great idea but unfortunately with a limited market. It seems that Meijer would need to see a much much much larger market to justify the complete redefinition of their store.

Areas 4 & 5

Meijer Knapps Corner at the same scale.

[GRDadof3]

I think the Meijer idea downtown is great! I know the biggest concern for Meijer though, will be parking. People with lots of groceries can't go too far on foot, it's a matter of logistics, and a ramp on the roof could be expensive and not contain a whole lot of vehicles. An idea to mitigate some of this would be to offer employees free bus passes, since the store would be right next to Central Station. The proximity to the station would also also be good for customers, especially those who could pick up a few items between transfers. With all the activity happening in that area of downtown, I can't think of a better idea for the space and it just might start more downtown retail. BTW, I would shop there too, any Meijer store from East Hills area is kind of far.

[civitas]

The current theater plan calls for 630 parking spaces on 3 levels, which is a good deal of parking (I think suburban stores like Knapp's Corner have about 600 - 700 parking spaces), but with it so close to the ITP station, your idea makes a lot of sense:

[GRDadof3]

Knapps Corner has over 1,200 parking spaces.

Does anyone know what the "traffic" is at the ITP station? How many people flow through there each day?

[snoogit]

Meijer will never want to cannibalize their Alpine store, its the current one that serves most of the downtown area, and its one that the Store has always been afraid to touch because it does have some of the highest foot traffic in the region.

[egrguy]

Meijer will never want to cannibalize their Alpine store, its the current one that serves most of the downtown area, and its one that the Store has always been afraid to touch because it does have some of the highest foot traffic in the region.

[walker]

GRDad - Downtown Meijers - brilliant...

[GRDadof3]

My one response is that I'm surprised people think 630 parking spaces is "not a lot of parking", especially since a lot of people in the city ride the bus. And a smaller scaled Meijer would not need as much parking.

It definitely would require Meijer to be bold, but so are the urban Targets, urban Home Depots, urban Wal-Marts and urban Best Buys that are popping up all over. Meijer would certainly get a lot of national press coverage.

Perhaps I give Meijer too much credit....

[Greedo]

You're all thinking suburban with regards to parking. An urban Meijer won't need nearly the number of parking spaces that suburban store would have, because that location is a brisk walk or short bus ride from the commerical and residential districts.

Great examples of urban grocery stores in Chicago:

Jewell -- State/Grand

Dominicks -- Fairbanks/Grand

Target Supercenter -- Addison/Kennedy Expressway

All very popular, well laid-out stores. Jewell and Dominicks are more intimate, traditional urban stores actually built into a taller condo project--main floor retail, ~10 stories of parking, condos above.

Target is built out in Riverview neighborhood with limited parking availability. Street level with ramp in back. Two-story main building with amazingly wide aisles. Near expressway for convenient on/off and on popular Addison bus route.

[Prankster]

I spent the earlier part of the week wandering around midtown Manhattan. Because I am too cheap to buy overpriced snacks at the hotel convenience store, I went out everyday to neighborhood grocery stores. I was really impressed by what I found. None of the stores had much frontage but once inside they were much bigger than I expected, although sometimes with strange layouts. They had high shelves that packed a lot of merchandise into what surely must be high-rent footage. I was just looking for junk food, but they all had very impressive displays of high quality fresh fruits and vegetables. These were chain stores although not chains that I was familiar with. And of course none of them had any parking at all.

[hombre_de_ciudad]

I would tend to agree if this Meijer were to just serve the downtown residents, but I also see a big "hole" in Meijer coverage for the near downtown, East Hills, EGR and West side areas. These circles are about a 2.5 mile radius around the current stores.

[AlexPKeaton]

I imagine such a store wouldn't need to carry nearly the variety of general merchandise either. Who is going to take a lawn mower home on a bus? I think a full-sized grocery store would fit, but not a full-sized Meijer.

I'm also curious how urban Home Depots sell things like drywall and plywood. Where do people put it?

-nb

[twoshort]

I'm also curious how urban Home Depots sell things like drywall and plywood. Where do people put it?

[Veloise]

I think the Alpine Meijer would take the biggest hit, but I think overall the cannibalization would be pretty well distributed amongst the other nearby stores. I shop at the gaines store on the se fringe. By way of my work/class I would naturally drive by the DT store regulary and that store would be most convienent for me to shop.

I would argue the same case could be made for many other commuters as well that this location would be ideal for lunch breaks, before/after work shopping. Besides, if they did have to have a smaller footprint, some departments could be eliminated or drastically reduced.

[tamias6]

Well Meijer must be the talk of the town since we've gone from Movie Theater to an urban formated Meijer for Area 4 and 5. So here's a Sketchup file by yours truly of such a Meijer designed for the block the theater is (was?) suppose to go on.

Featuring 4 stories of shopping and two levels of parking on the roof this Downtown Meijer store concept would be every bit as large as the standard suburban Meijer store and include all the product selection as well. There is even an outdoor garden center on the second level of the building. I've hidden the more utilitarian functions such as loading docks, access to the parking ramps, and the drive thru pharmacy under the S-curve behind the store. Lastly to help insure street life and to help pay off the expense of construction, spaces along the street frontage would be leased out to tenents.

Rather or not Meijer would do somthing like this is up in the air. But I would bet that the Meijer family is keeping an eye on urban Targets, and Home Depot's DT chicago location and would try their hand at building an urban Meijer should the urban versions of their compatition prove to be profitable.