Hartford Civic Center Discussions

[SOCOM]

What if you built a parking structure to eliminate some of the surface parking? And what if you were to eliminate some of those blank walls with some retail?

Both of these things could be done, but we'd still be giving up prime real estate in the center of the CBD for a massive building that sits vacant 300+ days out of the year. I'd much rather see space that people can actually use 365 days a year. Not to mention getting rid of the civic center could create a great residential neighborhood right in the heart of the city.

Are there any other cities that have their arena's smack dab in the middle of their downtown? I don't know, I'm just curious. The obvious answer would be Madison Sqaure Garden - but that's New York, which is a whole different story.

Hartford's downtown can't be much more than 3/4 sq mile. It's just not large enough to have an arena right in the midde of it IMO.

[uconn99]

I'm glad I wasn't in there, when the collapse happened.

My dad was there about 5 hours earlier at a UConn game. Good thing it waited a little before letting go.

[robm324]

Are there any other cities that have their arena's smack dab in the middle of their downtown? I don't know, I'm just curious. The obvious answer would be Madison Sqaure Garden - but that's New York, which is a whole different story.

There are quite a few. Gund Arena in Cleveland, MTS Centre in Winnipeg, Bradley Center (MIL), DnD Center (Providence), Air Canada Center (Toronto)....there's more but those are a few hockey arenas that I am familiar with.

I think one important point is that if the new arena was constructed on the "12-B" site, that is not exactly taking the arena out of downtown. It is within spitting distance of the CBD, and could actually go a long way towards expanding downtown beyond the 84 corridor.

[SOCOM]

I think one important point is that if the new arena was constructed on the "12-B" site, that is not exactly taking the arena out of downtown. It is within spitting distance of the CBD, and could actually go a long way towards expanding downtown beyond the 84 corridor.

This is one of the reasons I like the idea of moving the arena. It's not like we're moving it to the Meadows; site 12B is a stones throw from the CBD. As you said, and I agree with, it'll help stimulate that area and expand the downtown across I84.

[damus]

This is one of the reasons I like the idea of moving the arena. It's not like we're moving it to the Meadows; site 12B is a stones throw from the CBD. As you said, and I agree with, it'll help stimulate that area and expand the downtown across I84.

Not an essential, but is this site nearby any right of way for a potential light rail or the proposed commuter rail line?

[HartfordTycoon]

Not an essential, but is this site nearby any right of way for a potential light rail or the proposed commuter rail line?

Not really, but's it's a short walk from Union Station Downtown.

[drc72]

This is one of the reasons I like the idea of moving the arena. It's not like we're moving it to the Meadows; site 12B is a stones throw from the CBD. As you said, and I agree with, it'll help stimulate that area and expand the downtown across I84.

An arena would definitely jumpstart growth in that area.

[Bill Mocarsky]

The site for the new Whalers Arena that K. turned down was near the Holiday Inn next to 91 and 84.

Site 12B would be visible from the highways as well and only hidden if you're coming north on 91.

What ever is built on 12B will dominate the vista looking north up Main street. I once saw a conceptual rendering of a skyscraper for that site. The structure was aligned to appear like it was in the middle of Main Street.

[robm324]

^^-- Which is much better than the current view when someone looks down Main St. and it looks like downtown falls off the face of the Earth.

[jcrc]

Is Constitution Plaza an viable alternative to 12B? It's a large piece of under used structure with an empty hotel, and soon to move WFSB. If we can line Adriaen's Landing, Convention Center, Science Center, and the arena next to each other, then there is no need to build separate parking facility for each of them.

[HartfordTycoon]

Is Constitution Plaza an viable alternative to 12B? It's a large piece of under used structure with an empty hotel, and soon to move WFSB. If we can line Adriaen's Landing, Convention Center, Science Center, and the arena next to each other, then there is no need to build separate parking facility for each of them.

That's a pretty good idea. I'd rather tear all of that old stuff down when WFSB leaves, so that would be a great place to put an Arena if they can make the logistics work. Something needs to be developed on and around 12B though. It has a very negative effect on the rest of Downtown.

[ctman987]

The current 12 B site with an arena I could live with because it is very close to downtown. In the 12 B area is also the site of the future public safety complex on High Street and possibly residential units which might be built on the site of the "butt ugly building"

[jcrc]

That's a pretty good idea. I'd rather tear all of that old stuff down when WFSB leaves, so that would be a great place to put an Arena if they can make the logistics work. Something needs to be developed on and around 12B though. It has a very negative effect on the rest of Downtown.

I personally think 12B should be moderately priced apartments for those want urban living but can't afford what are now being put up. I think the younger artsy fartsy type will be more willing to live in 12B than empty nesters. Heck I bet they will be willing to live in the butt ugly building if it is rehabbed. The city needs to do its part by making that area and the connecting Main Street, Chapel Street, and Church Street pedestrian friendly.

[MadVlad]

I think Constitution Plaza is definitely underused, but I'm not sure how an Arena would fit there. Also, then where would we put Constitution College?

[HeartbeatHead]

What ever is built on 12B will dominate the vista looking north up Main street. I once saw a conceptual rendering of a skyscraper for that site. The structure was aligned to appear like it was in the middle of Main Street.

where did u see that rendering? what was the building going to b used for?

[beerbeer]

The footprint at Constitution Plaza (at the hotel/WFSB site) is way too small to fit a 16,000+ seat arena. There's no way.

[drc72]

The footprint at Constitution Plaza (at the hotel/WFSB site) is way too small to fit a 16,000+ seat arena. There's no way.

I agree. The area just doesn't seem big enough.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I agree. The area just doesn't seem big enough.

I feel that even if the area was big enough to house an arena, Hartford would end up with the same problem. This time it would be too many super blocks between the center of downtown and the river.

If this site was to be redeveloped, I rather approach it similar to the way the civic center is being re-thought.

[beerbeer]

For all the criticism that Constitution Plaza gets, it has held up pretty well as a business addresss.

One thing that is never mentioned is that the plaza is ABOVE flood level. The CCC, the new Marriott and the Front Street site are all below flood level. If, god forbid, the Connecticut River ever visits downtown again, Constitution Plaza will be high and dry.

If Constitution Plaza had a residential component as originally planned, Hartford would have avoided many of the problems it encountered after the 60's. It would have jump started downtown housing and brethed life onto the plaza as well as supported a little retail.

[HartfordTycoon]

For all the criticism that Constitution Plaza gets, it has held up pretty well as a business addresss.

One thing that is never mentioned is that the plaza is ABOVE flood level. The CCC, the new Marriott and the Front Street site are all below flood level. If, god forbid, the Connecticut River ever visits downtown again, Constitution Plaza will be high and dry.

If Constitution Plaza had a residential component as originally planned, Hartford would have avoided many of the problems it encountered after the 60's. It would have jump started downtown housing and brethed life onto the plaza as well as supported a little retail.

Definitely. So the problem once again, was Hartford development ending up half-assed.

[jcrc]

For all the criticism that Constitution Plaza gets, it has held up pretty well as a business addresss.

One thing that is never mentioned is that the plaza is ABOVE flood level. The CCC, the new Marriott and the Front Street site are all below flood level. If, god forbid, the Connecticut River ever visits downtown again, Constitution Plaza will be high and dry.

If Constitution Plaza had a residential component as originally planned, Hartford would have avoided many of the problems it encountered after the 60's. It would have jump started downtown housing and brethed life onto the plaza as well as supported a little retail.

Can the residential component be put back?

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

Can the residential component be put back?

Actually (and sadly), a residential component was really NEVER planned there. A 'land bridge' was supposed to connect it to Main St. (they are the same elevation), maybe they thought residential would go elsewhere.

Does anybody have any old pictures of Constitution Plaza, when all of the retail was there, and the hotel was open? I heard there was some famous restaurant in the hotel. What was Spris originally?

[Luca Brasi]

Constitution Plaza really gets a bad rap. I love it.

It was conceptualized as a pedestrian oriented European style plaza. The architecture, gardens and fountains are stunning. For this reason, the award winning CP was recognized when built as an architechturally significant structure.

Plazas like this work all over Europe, so why not in Hartford? Because no one lives there or anywhere near it. During the day, Constitution Plaza functions as planned. But without any critical mass after 5PM, it dies. Originally, CP was filled with retail outwardly at street level and inwardly at the north end of the plaza. Without a critical mass, this retail soon died. Its broken, but it certainly can be fixed. Constitution Plaza can easily be linked to Front Street (although the "grand staircase" supposed to tie the two together at Travelers Plaza was sorely underexecuted) and I like Bill M's idea of another staircase leading down to Columbus across from the Science Center. The hotel property and WFSB need to be demolished in favor of a large residential project providing views of the city and the river. And there needs to be more restaurants and cafes surrounding the main fountain. Spris has done an unbelievable job over the last 5 years alone. Imagine if there were 2 more restaurants, a bar or two and a coffee shop all with outdoor seating.

[Luca Brasi]

What was Spris originally?

Before Spris it was a television studio where The Gail King Show was taped. Originally, it was supposed to be a Herman Miller showroom back when CP first opened. It was a brokerage for years.

[beerbeer]

I recall reading that the residential component was to be put at the north end of the plaza but i-84 put an end to that idea.