Space Needle

[HartfordTycoon]

There's no shortage of Buildings that scream Hartford when you really think about it. That's why I'm so interested to see what sort of stuff we can get with a new big wave of construction. Hartford has been known for bold, eclectic buildings for a long time.

[MadVlad]

I think that is an interesting building, but the Pheonix Boat Building is every bit as unique, so is the Stilts building for that matter. Maybe Mikel just got so use to the wonderful buildings in Hartford and started to think they are blas

[MadVlad]

Cotuit, any chance of getting the Space Needle remarks transfered over to this thread so we can get back on topic on what to replace the Civic Center lot with? Thanks....

[blink55184]

I just dont get some of this fantasy conversation going on, this isn't a computer game of SIMS!

Think realistically! I am not being a pessimist, I am being a realist!

Zoos and space needles as tourist traps!?!?!

What happened to better public transportation, JOBS, RESIDENTS, RESTAURANTS, GROCERY STORES, MORE SOCIAL/CIVIC FUNCTIONS

Ya know, the actual infrastructure of a city....?

Alot of this discussion is coming from peoples hearts and attachments to the city, but lets be realistic!!

If a city counciler or mayor or any Hartford politician read this thread, they would be laughing hysterically.

[mikel]

I just dont get some of this fantasy conversation going on, this isn't a computer game of SIMS!

Think realistically! I am not being a pessimist, I am being a realist!

Zoos and space needles as tourist traps!?!?!

What happened to better public transportation, JOBS, RESIDENTS, RESTAURANTS, GROCERY STORES, MORE SOCIAL/CIVIC FUNCTIONS

Ya know, the actual infrastructure of a city....?

Alot of this discussion is coming from peoples hearts and attachments to the city, but lets be realistic!!

If a city counciler or mayor or any Hartford politician read this thread, they would be laughing hysterically.

Thank's for saying what I've been trying to convey. This fantasy talk is crazy. Hartford needs the simplest of city ammenities.

[HartfordTycoon]

I just dont get some of this fantasy conversation going on, this isn't a computer game of SIMS!

Think realistically! I am not being a pessimist, I am being a realist!

Zoos and space needles as tourist traps!?!?!

What happened to better public transportation, JOBS, RESIDENTS, RESTAURANTS, GROCERY STORES, MORE SOCIAL/CIVIC FUNCTIONS

Ya know, the actual infrastructure of a city....?

Alot of this discussion is coming from peoples hearts and attachments to the city, but lets be realistic!!

If a city counciler or mayor or any Hartford politician read this thread, they would be laughing hysterically.

I just don't see what's so ridiculous about discussing things, even if they are 10-20 years away. Planning for the future is a good thing and if some people want to envision possible new monuments and zoos for our fair city, I don't see the prooblem.

Plus, a giant glass obelisk would be cool as hell in my opinion, and everyone is here just brainstorming and thinking outloud anyway.

Thank's for saying what I've been trying to convey. This fantasy talk is crazy. Hartford needs the simplest of city ammenities.

Best I can remember, not one person here has ever disagreed with this. We are having fun thinking outloud. Is it a crime?

[mikel]

I just don't see what's so ridiculous about discussing things, even if they are 10-20 years away. Planning for the future is a good thing and if some people want to envision possible new monuments and zoos for our fair city, I don't see the prooblem.

Plus, a giant glass obelisk would be cool as hell in my opinion, and everyone is here just brainstorming and thinking outloud anyway.

Best I can remember, not one person here has ever disagreed with this. We are having fun thinking outloud. Is it a crime?

Whenever I mention I want a short functional but simple building somewhere and want it soon, I get bashed for having no vision as it should be kept empty so a massive skyscraper could someday be there. That's the attitude here, and it's absurd.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

Here ya go MadVlad. Doesn't that look just like the new Marriott in the foreground?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/0...th_coupland.jpg

[HartfordTycoon]

Whenever I mention I want a short functional but simple building somewhere and want it soon, I get bashed for having no vision as it should be kept empty so a massive skyscraper could someday be there. That's the attitude here, and it's absurd.

Never, not once, has that been a response from me. So I'm speaking for myself. I'm pretty open to all of your guys ideas and have expressed repeatedly that I too favor infill development of low and mid rise buildings, just not everywhere since I want more towers as well.

[MadVlad]

Here ya go MadVlad. Doesn't that look just like the new Marriott in the foreground?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/0...th_coupland.jpg

Heh, yeah, it does....

[MadVlad]

I just dont get some of this fantasy conversation going on, this isn't a computer game of SIMS!

Think realistically! I am not being a pessimist, I am being a realist!

Zoos and space needles as tourist traps!?!?!

What happened to better public transportation, JOBS, RESIDENTS, RESTAURANTS, GROCERY STORES, MORE SOCIAL/CIVIC FUNCTIONS

Ya know, the actual infrastructure of a city....?

Alot of this discussion is coming from peoples hearts and attachments to the city, but lets be realistic!!

If a city counciler or mayor or any Hartford politician read this thread, they would be laughing hysterically.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all, cities all over the world have zoos, is it ridiculous to want one for Hartford? I don't think so. Is it ridiculous to want a nice iconic building for the city that would draw a ton of people that would otherwise drive through/never come to the city? I don't think so. It's apples and oranges, my friend. You sound like Sam Fingold. "Hartford needs to worry about schools and roads first, not an arena and a hockey team". Apples and oranges. I could make the case that the Whalers moving was one of the 5 biggest blows to the city in 100 years. The money that goes for one thing isn't necessarily coming from the same pot as the other. You need to stop living in the "reality" that nothing good will ever happen unless the roads and schools are paved with gold, or iron, or lead, or whatever. That's your reality, not mine. Be as "real" as you want, but this plan could indeed work. Some agree, some don't, but it isn't ridiculous.

[blink55184]

I don't think it's ridiculous at all, cities all over the world have zoos, is it ridiculous to want one for Hartford? I don't think so. Is it ridiculous to want a nice iconic building for the city that would draw a ton of people that would otherwise drive through/never come to the city? I don't think so. It's apples and oranges, my friend. You sound like Sam Fingold. "Hartford needs to worry about schools and roads first, not an arena and a hockey team". Apples and oranges. I could make the case that the Whalers moving was one of the 5 biggest blows to the city in 100 years. The money that goes for one thing isn't necessarily coming from the same pot as the other. You need to stop living in the "reality" that nothing good will ever happen unless the roads and schools are paved with gold, or iron, or lead, or whatever. That's your reality, not mine. Be as "real" as you want, but this plan could indeed work. Some agree, some don't, but it isn't ridiculous.

Tycoon- Nothing wrong with it, keep discussing! I am just putting in my thoughts as well, saying I think it is silly and unrealistic, and at best, WAY more than 10-20 years away.

Vlad- It somewhat is ridiculous thinking of things that far out. I hope you are discussing this in a game-of-sims-like way of toying ideas, and not realistically. A simple resident trying to stand up and say WE WANT ZOOS AND SPACE NEEDLES would get shot down in a moment. The residents are what matter. This is what we need first. Not tourists. No tourist goes to an unpopulated city. If a poor mother is sending her child to an asbestos falling apart school, and the city is focusing on a tall needle, they would be outraged and leave the city. The north end is riddled with crime, and the south end as well for that matter. Schools ARE falling apart. This is what matters first. Look what happened when Manchester dove into the mall and surrounding plazas instead of the high school first- now they have no spot for a new school and continue adding temporary classrooms on wheels and renovated an old overcrowded building.

If you want something like a needle, tower, or major zoo, first the stilts to hold it up must be in place. If you build a huge structure to bring people into the city(in 50 years), maybe they will come and eat in the spinning restaurant atop. Then what.... walk through the convention center? go back to the hotel?

Things have to be done in a progressive order, you cant skip steps.

Yes, it is fine to discuss this. Put all your ideas out there.

But if you do, expect critisim and discussion.

[drc72]

I just dont get some of this fantasy conversation going on, this isn't a computer game of SIMS!

Think realistically! I am not being a pessimist, I am being a realist!

Zoos and space needles as tourist traps!?!?!

What happened to better public transportation, JOBS, RESIDENTS, RESTAURANTS, GROCERY STORES, MORE SOCIAL/CIVIC FUNCTIONS

Ya know, the actual infrastructure of a city....?

Alot of this discussion is coming from peoples hearts and attachments to the city, but lets be realistic!!

If a city counciler or mayor or any Hartford politician read this thread, they would be laughing hysterically.

Honestly do you have so little faith in Hartford, that you think these things aren't possible? Many cities are living this dream, but yet you and mikel seem to think Hartford's golden years are done with forever. I agree getting jobs into the city is critical, but the possibility of a space needle, or other attractions coming into the city is doable and not out of the ordinary. Look at what happened in the eighties, Hartford was so close to getting mega towers downtown. Economic cycles unfortunately change things. I'm an optomist, and I really believe Hartford's better days are on the way.

[drc72]

That would look good in Hartford.

[blink55184]

Honestly do you have so little faith in Hartford, that you think these things aren't possible? Many cities are living this dream, but yet you and mikel seem to think Hartford's golden years are done with forever. I agree getting jobs into the city is critical, but the possibility of a space needle, or other attractions coming into the city is doable and not out of the ordinary. Look at what happened in the eighties, Hartford was so close to getting mega towers downtown. Economic cycles unfortunately change things. I'm an optomist, and I really believe Hartford's better days are on the way.

Well like I said, I am not being a pessimist. These things ARE possible, albeit 50ish years away at best. I dont think the golden years are done, I would LOVE to see big things here. I am thinking logically to get there, no dreaming far into the future.

ps- I think anyone reading/posting on this board clearly has faith in the city..why else would one come here or to other Hartford forums...?

[HartfordTycoon]

Tycoon- Nothing wrong with it, keep discussing! I am just putting in my thoughts as well, saying I think it is silly and unrealistic, and at best, WAY more than 10-20 years away.

Vlad- It somewhat is ridiculous thinking of things that far out. I hope you are discussing this in a game-of-sims-like way of toying ideas, and not realistically. A simple resident trying to stand up and say WE WANT ZOOS AND SPACE NEEDLES would get shot down in a moment. The residents are what matter. This is what we need first. Not tourists. No tourist goes to an unpopulated city. If a poor mother is sending her child to an asbestos falling apart school, and the city is focusing on a tall needle, they would be outraged and leave the city. The north end is riddled with crime, and the south end as well for that matter. Schools ARE falling apart. This is what matters first. Look what happened when Manchester dove into the mall and surrounding plazas instead of the high school first- now they have no spot for a new school and continue adding temporary classrooms on wheels and renovated an old overcrowded building.

If you want something like a needle, tower, or major zoo, first the stilts to hold it up must be in place. If you build a huge structure to bring people into the city(in 50 years), maybe they will come and eat in the spinning restaurant atop. Then what.... walk through the convention center? go back to the hotel?

Things have to be done in a progressive order, you cant skip steps.

Yes, it is fine to discuss this. Put all your ideas out there.

But if you do, expect critisim and discussion.

Fair enough, I just don't want people to feel like they should not post their ideas for Hartford's future. As someone who is always in the city, and the North End to boot, I can tell you first hand that school construction and renovation is in high gear right now with Rawson, Noah Webster, and HPHS all undergoing significant face lifts that are either complete or nearly complete. The other schools will follow, and there are beautification and streetscape improvements planned for every neighborhood in Hartford. So there is action being taken on the fronts we all know need to be addressed. Let's just remember that urban problems are too common in American and all of it's cities, even the ones with zoos and space needles.

[Bill Mocarsky]

MadVlad,

How tall do you envision the Space Needle? The sites where you proposed the structure are pretty close to the State Capitol. Do you think there will be concern that it might overshadow the Capitol?

I could see a hotel above that underground garage between Asylum and Farmington Avenues.......something like Le Loews Concorde in Quebec. It has a revolving restaurant on top. It is about 330 feet. Sometimes the best observation decks are not the the highest.

[MadVlad]

MadVlad,

How tall do you envision the Space Needle? The sites where you proposed the structure are pretty close to the State Capitol. Do you think there will be concern that it might overshadow the Capitol?

I could see a hotel above that underground garage between Asylum and Farmington Avenues.......something like Le Loews Concorde in Quebec. It has a revolving restaurant on top. It is about 330 feet. Sometimes the best observation decks are not the the highest.

It depends, the area I like is high ground, so it could be as low as 500ft there, or as high as 600ft. I know the observation deck you're talking about in QC, but it's on top of the hotel right? It looks pretty bland to me, if mikel talks about an uncreative tower, that's what I would imagine. Maybe if the hotel was low-rise and the tower swept up dramatically over it so that it was still impresive, that might work...

[Gary_Kreie]

Ok, first, when exactly did St Louis have 2.7 million people?

The 2000 census for the St. Louis metropolitan area. The "City of St. Louis" city limits were frozen by the state the end of the 19th century. The old "City of St. Louis" is now only about 1/10th of the 3 million person Metropolitan Area of St. Louis.

But your point about the huge surrounding population around Harford holds, unless you extend the St. Louis circle 5 hours out to Chicago and KC.

I personally like skyline icons, like the Gateway Arch. I'm sure locals know their own skyline, but I can't tell one from the other without an icon or reading the caption. The US needs more cool skyline monuments to distinguish cities.

[Gary_Kreie]

What purpose does the ST. Louis Arch have? It doesn't, it's an iconic piece of the greater city that is synonymous with the city, worldwide. Our needle doesn't have to be a cookie-cutter carbon copy of anything, it can be anything we want. Is CN tower in Toronto horrible because it too is a needle type structure like Seattle's? No, it is it's own unique thing. Because something is the same type of structure as something else does not mean it's a rip off, it doesn't have to be, only if uncreative people design it....

On the East Coast, it is generally not known that the Gateway Arch in St. Louis is a part of the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial run by the National Park Service. It is the Nation's tallest monument. It honors Thomas Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase expansion he initiated. It also honors Lewis and Clark who started their epic journey up the Missouri River from St. Louis, as well as St. Louis' role as the primary jumping off point and outfitter of all the early settlers who opened the West right after Lewis and Clark mapped out the territory.

There is an excellent new documentary film (narrated by Kevin Kline that should be on PBS within the next year) that explains the place of the giant sculpture in American history to the less informed Americans on the East and Hollywood Coasts. The film is called "The Gateway Arch, A Reflection of America." Here is a link to the creator's web site:

Gateway Arch Documentary

[jcrc]

It depends, the area I like is high ground, so it could be as low as 500ft there, or as high as 600ft. I know the observation deck you're talking about in QC, but it's on top of the hotel right? It looks pretty bland to me, if mikel talks about an uncreative tower, that's what I would imagine. Maybe if the hotel was low-rise and the tower swept up dramatically over it so that it was still impresive, that might work...

something like the Blackpool Tower?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blackpo...r_OwlofDoom.jpg

[MadVlad]

The 2000 census for the St. Louis metropolitan area. The "City of St. Louis" city limits were frozen by the state the end of the 19th century. The old "City of St. Louis" is now only about 1/10th of the 3 million person Metropolitan Area of St. Louis.

But your point about the huge surrounding population around Harford holds, unless you extend the St. Louis circle 5 hours out to Chicago and KC.

I personally like skyline icons, like the Gateway Arch. I'm sure locals know their own skyline, but I can't tell one from the other without an icon or reading the caption. The US needs more cool skyline monuments to distinguish cities.

You miss my point, he was using skewed results, some actually city pops, some metro sizes, neither consistent.

something like the Blackpool Tower?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blackpo...r_OwlofDoom.jpg

That would definitely be different....

[Gary_Kreie]

You miss my point, he was using skewed results, some actually city pops, some metro sizes, neither consistent.

You asked the question "Ok, first, when exactly did St Louis have 2.7 million people?" I merely answered it. The year 2000.

[Luca Brasi]

A monument to Samuel Colt incorporated into Coltsville would be nice. If Coltsville gets National Parks recognition, it could be part of the park.

[jcrc]

A monument to Samuel Colt incorporated into Coltsville would be nice. If Coltsville gets National Parks recognition, it could be part of the park.

A giant single action Colt 45 peacemaker on top of a space needle? That will get the Cabela's shoppers into the city no doubt.