Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Spartan]

15 hours ago, NcSc74 said:

/\/\/\

First up, 77/85 interchange.  What a boondoggle.  

So, it's worth noting that the TAP doesn't address interstate highways. That is 100% state/federal funding. The Metropolitan Transportation Plan (aka: Long Range Transportation Plan) does, though it's implementation wouldn't be addressed by City funding.

1 hour ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

 I thought the 85/77 interchange was actively being reworked as we speak? I drive it every day and they are most certainly doing something… 

They're doing some modifications on I-77 to the as part of the I-77 HOT Lanes project, but I don't think they're doing the interchange redesign that people want to see.

[southslider]

^Those willing to pay tolls to bypass the congestion should like it.

[tozmervo]

Last week I had to head out 74 west for work, and I was really surprised at how far along the Monroe Expressway seems to be. Looks like late 2018 will be robust with toll roads opening around the metro

[KJHburg]

Was down in Indian Trail today the progress on the Monroe Bypass toll road is amazing. Steel girders on the bridge over Secret Shortcut road already and at other places. Massive traffic shifts on US 74 near I-485 where it will come back in. This is one toll road that will work due to all the through traffic on US 74 and beachbound visitors not to mention daily commuters. Here is the project map  https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/monroeconnector/download/ProjectMap.pdf  This photo is on US 74 right near 485 where it merges back into 74. 

[southslider]

^It'll especially work, since everyone on US-74 must pay a toll going through Indian Trail.  That is, unless they exit to the new frontage roads between 485 and where the new bypass will split off.

[SgtCampsalot]

It's tough to get excited these days about highway projects/expansions, but traffic on Independence outside of 485 is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. My brother moved out to Hemby Bridge past Indian Trail w his fam and I about slapped him across the face.

I'm hoping this bypass will allow that stretch of 74 (or old 74 soon, I guess) to be more modestly congested.

[southslider]

^Around Hemby Bridge and Indian Trail,  the new 74 is on the exact same alignment as the existing 74. And that's how you guarantee the project's revenue projections. At least 77 north commuters will retain their existing free lanes.

[KJHburg]

I think the tolling starts right after the Monroe Bypass splits off 74. Check out this detail and I think the first toll charging will be begin right after the split. There will be no toll booths to slow down traffic either.  https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/monroeconnector/download/ME_Sec1_Roll.pdf

[southslider]

^No toll booths, but the first gantry reading transponders or snapping pics of plates is before the split.  But don't worry, you can exit to the new frontage roads and get back on post-split, if wanting to still go the beach for free.

[KJHburg]

10 minutes ago, southslider said:

^No toll booths, but the first gantry reading transponders or snapping pics of plates is before the split.  But don't worry, you can exit to the new frontage roads and get back on post-split, if wanting to still go the beach for free.

If that is the case I will just bypass the first toll on the access roads. I do that when I am in Texas all the time exit off onto the access roads that run parallel. I use Secrest Shortcut anyway since all those lights on 74 are not going away. I am just hoping all the through traffic on 74 through Indian Trail and Monroe especially the truck traffic will use the bypass toll road as it will be so much faster. 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

On 3/15/2017 at 1:44 PM, southslider said:

^No toll booths, but the first gantry reading transponders or snapping pics of plates is before the split.  But don't worry, you can exit to the new frontage roads and get back on post-split, if wanting to still go the beach for free.

If the Monroe Expressway is anything like the Triangle Expressway, there are multiple camera/transponder gantries along the mainline and exits that charge you for each segment you travel and where you exit. There will be no free ride to the beach on this road, but I guess you can potentially avoid a couple of the zones.

[Spartan]

Have they said how much it will cost to drive the whole bypass?

Even without a majority of the through traffic, 74 will still be fairly congested due to the number of lights and general population living there. It will be interesting to see what the travel time benefits will be compared to the cost of driving the bypass once its complete.

[videtur quam contuor]

Twenty years ago I discovered 218 from Mint Hill to 74 near Wadesboro. It was a lovely winding pastoral two lane with numerous stretches I was able to drive at whatever speed seemed safe. Police patrol was non-existent. Over the years many others discovered this route, particularly truckers. It was still a rolling pastoral drive but the sense that the road was for me alone certainly disappeared. If the truckers move to the new route 218 may become attractive again.

[KJHburg]

I do think truckers will use the Monroe Bypass toll road to go nonstop through Union county to the other side of Monroe. Time is money and all the traffic congestion uses more fuel idling. Hopefully US 74 through western Union county will be more of local traffic and commuter route. (and some commuters will use it to get to 485 as well) 

[SgtCampsalot]

Does anyone have any reason to believe that the Monroe stretch of 74 that will be bypassed (what'll it be called, btw?) will be adapted to be less highway-oriented? Or would that be entirely pointless since it's existing landscape is so auto oriented?

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Does anyone have any reason to believe that the Monroe stretch of 74 that will be bypassed (what'll it be called, btw?) will be adapted to be less highway-oriented? Or would that be entirely pointless since it's existing landscape is so auto oriented?

I think it will be entirely pointless because it's Union County

[Third Strike]

2 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Does anyone have any reason to believe that the Monroe stretch of 74 that will be bypassed (what'll it be called, btw?) will be adapted to be less highway-oriented? Or would that be entirely pointless since it's existing landscape is so auto oriented?

There are plans to widen US 74 to six lanes, as well as a multi-use path that will run on the side. I expect US 74 will still mostly be congested since most people in Union live on the other side of US 74, away from the bypass. Also, the Monroe Bypass will be delineated as US 74-Bypass. The original will retain its name.

[southslider]

When you reach bypass of bypass, you stop caring about the land use implications. It's like someone who needed a lifestyle change after having major surgery, but then actually indulged more in their unhealthy lifestyle, only to keep coming back for more operations. 

 

[Spartan]

On 3/19/2017 at 6:14 PM, SgtCampsalot said:

Does anyone have any reason to believe that the Monroe stretch of 74 that will be bypassed (what'll it be called, btw?) will be adapted to be less highway-oriented? Or would that be entirely pointless since it's existing landscape is so auto oriented?

1- Current 74 will likely become Business 74, similar to 74 in Shelby.

2- If Union County has any aspirations to be walkable (which is doubtful) they'll have to focus on pockets of walkability - mainly in Monroe. and some of the other towns. The 74 corridor won't change.

On 3/19/2017 at 8:39 PM, Third Strike said:

There are plans to widen US 74 to six lanes, as well as a multi-use path that will run on the side. I expect US 74 will still mostly be congested since most people in Union live on the other side of US 74, away from the bypass. Also, the Monroe Bypass will be delineated as US 74-Bypass. The original will retain its name.

There will still be a need for some of that retail activity for locals, but its hard to quantify exactly how much the through traffic contributes to the local economy. I think there will be a decline in retail on 74 since the bulk of traffic will likely use the new bypass.This is what happens every time a bypass is built to "relieve congestion." 

[Eightane]

27 minutes ago, Spartan said:

1- Current 74 will likely become Business 74, similar to 74 in Shelby.

2- If Union County has any aspirations to be walkable (which is doubtful) they'll have to focus on pockets of walkability - mainly in Monroe. and some of the other towns. The 74 corridor won't change.

There will still be a need for some of that retail activity for locals, but its hard to quantify exactly how much the through traffic contributes to the local economy. I think there will be a decline in retail on 74 since the bulk of traffic will likely use the new bypass.This is what happens every time a bypass is built to "relieve congestion." 

And this would be why I think most bypasses should be built limited-access or elsewise follow the rule of on/offramps that interstate highways abide by. If the purpose of building the bypass is to get long-distance travellers past congestion nodes or retail oceans, it makes absolutely no sense to me that many are built w/o provisions that keep those retailers from swarming the new alternative. It creates dead-zones in the old route when the bix boxes pack up shop and move to their sparkling new location on the new road, whereas when businesses are made to stay put because they aren't *allowed* to crowd the new road, they fall under the "natural business selection" they always should have been: if they're important enough to the local economy, they stay because people support that by buying from them, if they can't, they just weren't a feasible business or they used to be but fell out of that niche.

Newer businesses can then come in and take over old, vacant spaces on the older road, which also solves the problem of newcomers building seas of asphalt next to non-limited-access byways just because it's cheaper for them in some cases, or helps them "build to suit" because they're picky about their access orientation or how their building's shaped. Quality of travel and fast trips for their customers should trump all of their corporate philosophies on showmanship and idle personalization. The fact this wasn't nailed down as a concrete solution decades ago just makes me think people worship car culture even more than we mention and call to attention.

[SgtCampsalot]

Wait, is the Monroe Bypass going to be limited-access highway or no?

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Wait, is the Monroe Bypass going to be limited-access highway or no?

It's not only limited access but also a tollway, so I think most retail businesses will be hard pressed to set up along there. (FWIW, the new Shelby bypass-bypass is also limited access)

[Eightane]

5 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

It's not only limited access but also a tollway, so I think most retail businesses will be hard pressed to set up along there. (FWIW, the new Shelby bypass-bypass is also limited access)

Well that's honestly great news. I suppose it's easy to see how the *first* Shelby bypass went so utterly wrong and assume there haven't been many lessons learned from it, esp. since it's by far not the only example of that brand of shortsightedness. Every time I drive through there on the way to Asheville I have to wonder just what they thought would happen with no contingency to keep retailers from morphing the speedy alt' into a gridlocked mess.

[videtur quam contuor]

7 minutes ago, Eightane said:

Well that's honestly great news. I suppose it's easy to see how the *first* Shelby bypass went so utterly wrong and assume there haven't been many lessons learned from it, esp. since it's by far not the only example of that brand of shortsightedness. Every time I drive through there on the way to Asheville I have to wonder just what they thought would happen with no contingency to keep retailers from morphing the speedy alt' into a gridlocked mess.

Use 321 to I-40 to Asheville

[Eightane]

5 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

Use 321 to I-40 to Asheville

That would be a good idea, if I only had to go to AV-proper. I suppose I should've been more clear but there are destinations in the south of the Asheville metro that would be much better options by 74 (or 74-to-64) instead of 40, such as west of Brevard and the Great Balsams. If you're sticking to the city itself, yes, but as someone w/ family in Transylvania it's just irritating how the western reaches wound up.