Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[NcSc74]

Can anyone lobby the GA to defund the  loop around Winston-Salem, Fayetteville and funnel the money to Cap 277 at South End and rehab all the antiquanted interchanges.  I mean loops are so 1970's. Shame on NCDOT for being generations behind other states.  Have you seen the highway infrastructure improvements in Richmond. Orlando, Birmingham etc...notice one city that is peer level to Charlotte.

What WS needs is a north-south expressway, which I think is part of the plan, with a northern connector to G-boro.  What Fayetteville needs is a competent urban planner but besides that if the current contruction ends at AA freeway I think that should suffice the feds requirement for a limited access highway to 95.

My plan for Charlotte would be; capped 277, rehab/increase capacity for 277 interchanges, full limited access highway for independence/US 74 using  Monroe bypass extending to I-74; would sign it I-174.

[SgtCampsalot]

34 minutes ago, NcSc74 said:

Shame on NCDOT for being generations behind other states. 

Honey the whole NCGA and NCDOT are literally generations behind lots of people.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

53 minutes ago, NcSc74 said:

Can anyone lobby the GA to defund the  loop around Winston-Salem, Fayetteville and funnel the money to Cap 277 at South End and rehab all the antiquanted interchanges.  I mean loops are so 1970's. Shame on NCDOT for being generations behind other states.  Have you seen the highway infrastructure improvements in Richmond. Orlando, Birmingham etc...notice one city that is peer level to Charlotte.

What WS needs is a north-south expressway, which I think is part of the plan, with a northern connector to G-boro.  What Fayetteville needs is a competent urban planner but besides that if the current contruction ends at AA freeway I think that should suffice the feds requirement for a limited access highway to 95.

My plan for Charlotte would be; capped 277, rehab/increase capacity for 277 interchanges, full limited access highway for independence/US 74 using  Monroe bypass extending to I-74; would sign it I-174.

Winston's Beltway is largely part of I-74, and substantially under construction now.  It should not be canceled or eliminated.

[Scribe]

5 minutes ago, DCMetroRaleigh said:

Winston's Beltway is largely part of I-74, and substantially under construction now.  It should not be canceled or eliminated.

Don't mind them... sometimes they forget that there is a whole state outside Charlotte... while Charlotte was shafted in $ most of the time  by GA... that does not make it OK to just ignore the rest of the state's infrastructure!

[KJHburg]

I guess I  am the only one who does not want a cap.  I want a rail trail bridge wide over the freeway but until we run out of room in uptown Charlotte inside the loop I don't believe this is necessary.  We can still add more parks.  Wider sidewalks on the existing bridges like Church and College streets would be ideal as well but the costs of these caps is just so high.  In the ATL the projected cost on a cap in Buckhead over GA 400 is a $200Million according to the ATL Business Chronicle and Dallas's Klyde Warran Park just a 1200 foot long cap was $110 Million.   Imagine what $200 Million could be spent on for greenways, additional LYNX stop in southend etc.  

[Windsurfer]

What is the point of I-74?  Won't it be running parallel to I-77 for the most part?  Is it just a connector for tourists between Ohio and Myrtle Beach?

[Hunted]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

I guess I  am the only one who does not want a cap.  I want a rail trail bridge wide over the freeway but until we run out of room in uptown Charlotte inside the loop I don't believe this is necessary.  We can still add more parks.  Wider sidewalks on the existing bridges like Church and College streets would be ideal as well but the costs of these caps is just so high.  In the ATL the projected cost on a cap in Buckhead over GA 400 is a $200Million according to the ATL Business Chronicle and Dallas's Klyde Warran Park just a 1200 foot long cap was $110 Million.   Imagine what $200 Million could be spent on for greenways, additional LYNX stop in southend etc.  

With ya.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

56 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

What is the point of I-74?  Won't it be running parallel to I-77 for the most part?  Is it just a connector for tourists between Ohio and Myrtle Beach?

Well then, it will serve a valid purpose.

[Third Strike]

3 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

What is the point of I-74?  Won't it be running parallel to I-77 for the most part?  Is it just a connector for tourists between Ohio and Myrtle Beach?

I-74 will never connect to its midwestern counterpart. It’s current purpose is to link the Triad to Myrtle Beach and Wilmington. The benefit to Charlotte is that the section of I-74 between Rockingham and Whiteville will eventually be upgraded to interstate quality, which would help link Charlotte to Wilmington. We just need to fund the gap between the end of the Monroe Bypass to Rockingham on US 74. 

[dubone]

Every city has their own planning organizations and frankly I dislike most of the Piedmont Triad's roadway network plan, as it just seems mostly unplanned at the big picture.   Regardless, it is federal money and a federal corridor that determined the 74/73 routing and yes it is a lot about moving goods and people in a new diagonal route from Ohio to the coast.    Most newer interstates follow either strategic routes or US highways that are already busy and being upgraded anyway.    US 52, 220, and 74 are all busy and needed upgrading, so they strung the routing that way.   

In a similar vein, I was just looking at the new I-87 that links Raleigh to Norfolk along US-64, and US-17.   It is federally designated and NCDOT is planning for upgrading the corridor to Interstate quality during the 2020s.  

http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut87.html

I was dreaming, but I think it would be very wise in the long run to upgrade the US-1 and the US-74 stretch between Monroe Bypass to the US-1 freeway in Sanford to connect as an extension of that I-87 route.  

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1HMR_pz3XSpvAGYnWA6UazE77FdKJ8_ds&ll=35.74829459021949%2C-78.56333000000001&z=8

- The Raleigh to Norfolk section is already designated and is being scheduled for upgrades to interstate standards.    

- US 1 from is upgraded to Sanford, but would need further upgrades to Interstate standards

- Near Charlotte, we have the Monroe bypass that will be done soon. 

- From Wingate to Rockingham bypass needs upgrading, but some bypasses are already planned (30 miles)

- From Rockingham to Sanford, they do not seem to plan even a freeway, so that would be the major gap that would be needing plans.   On a new location, they could also find a rural link that routes it partially on the I-74 corridor.  

 

All told the 100 miles from Wingate to Sanford would need upgrades.  

 

Strategic Value:
- Serves Charlotte to Raleigh, Charlotte to Norfolk, Charlotte to Wilmington, Charlotte to Fayetteville routes, but also creates a redundant alternative  to the very congested I-85 corridor (equal or slightly less mileage).  

I would think this plan should just be on the books and be targeted for the 2030s.  But in the long run, 85 will be very expensive to expand again, and this corridor has added mobility benefits to the east of Charlotte, while being a perfect redundant alternative to the existing traffic patterns in the state. 

[Spartan]

21 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I guess I  am the only one who does not want a cap.  I want a rail trail bridge wide over the freeway but until we run out of room in uptown Charlotte inside the loop I don't believe this is necessary.  We can still add more parks.  Wider sidewalks on the existing bridges like Church and College streets would be ideal as well but the costs of these caps is just so high.  In the ATL the projected cost on a cap in Buckhead over GA 400 is a $200Million according to the ATL Business Chronicle and Dallas's Klyde Warran Park just a 1200 foot long cap was $110 Million.   Imagine what $200 Million could be spent on for greenways, additional LYNX stop in southend etc.  

The RT bridge over 277 wouldn't preclude the cap. 

[Scribe]

20 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

What is the point of I-74?  Won't it be running parallel to I-77 for the most part?

I like this page -- http://www.malmeroads.net/i7374nc/prog74.html -- allows you to click on each segment to get more details and a map...

But no, it is not parallel to I-77 more then a few miles near the VA border.

Oh, meant to add, after Monroe Bypass is done, only Wadesboro will be a real speed trap on the way to Wilmington.  The speed limits between Wingate and Wadesboro are mostly 55+

Edited April 24, 2018 by Scribe

[dubone]

55 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I like this page -- http://www.malmeroads.net/i7374nc/prog74.html -- allows you to click on each segment to get more details and a map...

But no, it is not parallel to I-77 more then a few miles near the VA border.

Oh, meant to add, after Monroe Bypass is done, only Wadesboro will be a real speed trap on the way to Wilmington.  The speed limits between Wingate and Wadesboro are mostly 55+

Wadesboro has a bypass proposed for funding in the STIP.   Sadly Marshville will still have some lights, but yes, it is getting closer to the removal of all the lights and then it is just slowly upgrading to limited access and then upgrading to match the standards. 

Marshville bypass should have absolutely been included in the Monroe Bypass, adding just a few more miles, and could have avoided emptying off a tollway into a small town with a few lights.     But since they didn't, we can hope that it might also be easy to extend the Expressway with a new project that is funded with the toll system.    

In their transportation plan, the bypass is to the south, https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Marshville/Marshville_Report.pdf

Since it is in Union County, it will surely be a low priority, though.    But eventually the state will look strategically and upgrade that stretch. 

[Scribe]

9 minutes ago, dubone said:

Wadesboro has a bypass proposed for funding in the STIP.

Yes, I was looking for the PDF of that, and finally found it:

Quote

US 74:

• Upgrade the existing four-lane facility to interstate standards from Union County to Old Prison Camp Rd. (SR 1249) and from west of the Lilesville town limits to Richmond County. Interchanges are recommended at Clinton Ave. (Peachland), the proposed NC 218 Connector (Polkton) and NC 145. A grade separation is recommended at the rail crossing east of Lilesville.

• Wadesboro Bypass: Construct a four-lane freeway north of Wadesboro from Old Prison Camp Rd. (SR 1249) to west of the Lilesville town limits. Interchanges are recommended at US 74/Old Prison Camp Rd. (SR 1249), NC 742, US 52, NC 109, the proposed US 52 Bypass, and at US 74 west of the Lilesville town limits. Grade separations are recommended at the three rail crossings in addition to Brown Creek Church Rd. (SR 1641), Airport Rd. (SR 1645), Winfree Rd. (SR 1713), and Wall St. west of Lilesville.

• Upgrade US 74 from Old Prison Camp Rd. (SR 1249) through Wadesboro to west of the Lilesville town limits to boulevard standards by converting the existing 5-lanes into a 4-lane median divided facility.

full report is here: https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Anson County/Anson_Report.pdf

[dubone]

22 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I guess I  am the only one who does not want a cap.  I want a rail trail bridge wide over the freeway but until we run out of room in uptown Charlotte inside the loop I don't believe this is necessary.  We can still add more parks.  Wider sidewalks on the existing bridges like Church and College streets would be ideal as well but the costs of these caps is just so high.  In the ATL the projected cost on a cap in Buckhead over GA 400 is a $200Million according to the ATL Business Chronicle and Dallas's Klyde Warran Park just a 1200 foot long cap was $110 Million.   Imagine what $200 Million could be spent on for greenways, additional LYNX stop in southend etc.  

I'm with you on the 277 cap.   It was the solution to the old problem where SouthEnd to Uptown pedestrian connectivity was extremely poor.   There was a huge gap between McDowell and Church where you could not cross as a pedestrian, and then even those crossings were extremely rudimentary and unpleasant.   They have now gone back in and added proper bike and sidewalks to South Blvd and to Tryon, added art and lighting to the McDowell underpass.  They still have a bridge crossing in the plans for connecting Euclid to Alexander /Davidson to help reduce that blockade.   Of all the things we have latched on to for the Charlotte 2010 plan, that was the one that has tons of staying power, but park land covering a freeway is just a very low value proposition, especially when have gotten the development on both sides of 277 happening despite the freeway.    Plus, we now have the Belk Greenway Connector planned to help provide even more east-west connectivity along 277.  

[Windsurfer]

56 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I like this page -- http://www.malmeroads.net/i7374nc/prog74.html -- allows you to click on each segment to get more details and a map...

But no, it is not parallel to I-77 more then a few miles near the VA border.

Oh, meant to add, after Monroe Bypass is done, only Wadesboro will be a real speed trap on the way to Wilmington.  The speed limits between Wingate and Wadesboro are mostly 55+

Thanks for the links. I also found the overall map on wiki.  Seems like it is quite redundant in West Va.  You can drive the current 77 to Charleston and head west from there. I bet it'll still be faster than following the river, which 74 will.

I'd feel much better about highways, interstates, etc. criss-crossing the country side if they'd allow for some wildlife to pass underneath or above them. Habitat fragmentation is the #1 cause of species extinction.  There are places along 264 out in East Carolina where they deliberately elevated the roadway a few extra yards along rivers just to allow for that. The Monroe Bypass should have much more elevated areas than are planned. Interstates are huge barriers for wildlife.

[Third Strike]

4 hours ago, dubone said:

Every city has their own planning organizations and frankly I dislike most of the Piedmont Triad's roadway network plan, as it just seems mostly unplanned at the big picture.   Regardless, it is federal money and a federal corridor that determined the 74/73 routing and yes it is a lot about moving goods and people in a new diagonal route from Ohio to the coast.    Most newer interstates follow either strategic routes or US highways that are already busy and being upgraded anyway.    US 52, 220, and 74 are all busy and needed upgrading, so they strung the routing that way.   

In a similar vein, I was just looking at the new I-87 that links Raleigh to Norfolk along US-64, and US-17.   It is federally designated and NCDOT is planning for upgrading the corridor to Interstate quality during the 2020s.  

http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut87.html

I was dreaming, but I think it would be very wise in the long run to upgrade the US-1 and the US-74 stretch between Monroe Bypass to the US-1 freeway in Sanford to connect as an extension of that I-87 route.  

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1HMR_pz3XSpvAGYnWA6UazE77FdKJ8_ds&ll=35.74829459021949%2C-78.56333000000001&z=8

- The Raleigh to Norfolk section is already designated and is being scheduled for upgrades to interstate standards.    

- US 1 from is upgraded to Sanford, but would need further upgrades to Interstate standards

- Near Charlotte, we have the Monroe bypass that will be done soon. 

- From Wingate to Rockingham bypass needs upgrading, but some bypasses are already planned (30 miles)

- From Rockingham to Sanford, they do not seem to plan even a freeway, so that would be the major gap that would be needing plans.   On a new location, they could also find a rural link that routes it partially on the I-74 corridor.  

 

All told the 100 miles from Wingate to Sanford would need upgrades.  

 

Strategic Value:
- Serves Charlotte to Raleigh, Charlotte to Norfolk, Charlotte to Wilmington, Charlotte to Fayetteville routes, but also creates a redundant alternative  to the very congested I-85 corridor (equal or slightly less mileage).  

I would think this plan should just be on the books and be targeted for the 2030s.  But in the long run, 85 will be very expensive to expand again, and this corridor has added mobility benefits to the east of Charlotte, while being a perfect redundant alternative to the existing traffic patterns in the state. 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like the state is going to upgrade US 1 anytime soon. Most projects submitted for US 1 south of Sanford are for upgrading portions into super streets. Would love to see an interstate link between Raleigh and Columbia via US 1, as well as upgrading US 1 between Raleigh and I-85 near the VA border, but I doubt that’s ever going to happen. 

2 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Thanks for the links. I also found the overall map on wiki.  Seems like it is quite redundant in West Va.  You can drive the current 77 to Charleston and head west from there. I bet it'll still be faster than following the river, which 74 will.

I'd feel much better about highways, interstates, etc. criss-crossing the country side if they'd allow for some wildlife to pass underneath or above them. Habitat fragmentation is the #1 cause of species extinction.  There are places along 264 out in East Carolina where they deliberately elevated the roadway a few extra yards along rivers just to allow for that. The Monroe Bypass should have much more elevated areas than are planned. Interstates are huge barriers for wildlife.

I think some parts of the bypass is elevated. The project almost got killed because it cuts through vulnerable wetlands. 

[KJHburg]

^^ Yes parts of the Monroe Bypass are elevated especially around where it runs parallel Secrest Shortcut Rd up to the Sardis Church Rd interchange. 

[Cadi40]

Two Speculative Questions...

-What is one possible route for a new Freeway in Charlotte that is not the Monroe Bypass?

-Will the Monroe Bypass create any new financial benefit to Union County and will Businesses/Commercial/Shopping Centers build around the new Expressway?

 

[Third Strike]

58 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Two Speculative Questions...

-What is one possible route for a new Freeway in Charlotte that is not the Monroe Bypass?

-Will the Monroe Bypass create any new financial benefit to Union County and will Businesses/Commercial/Shopping Centers build around the new Expressway?

 

Honestly? Probably none. The Gaston Parkway would have been a new route, but that’s beyond dead. The Monroe Bypass, the Shelby Bypass, the Marshville bypass, and the Wadesboro bypass are the only new freeway alignments planned for the Charlotte region.

There was an industrial park planned near the Monroe Bypass, but I don’t know if that’s still planned. You should check out the GA 400 corridor in the Atlanta metro to get an idea for possible similar development along the corridor. 

[dubone]

17 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like the state is going to upgrade US 1 anytime soon. Most projects submitted for US 1 south of Sanford are for upgrading portions into super streets. Would love to see an interstate link between Raleigh and Columbia via US 1, as well as upgrading US 1 between Raleigh and I-85 near the VA border, but I doubt that’s ever going to happen. 

I think some parts of the bypass is elevated. The project almost got killed because it cuts through vulnerable wetlands. 

I noticed.   But to be honest, I think my idea would be best done with a connector from US1  to I73/74.  Obviously it isn't already planned, but I think it should be planned.   They will need to eventually end the monopoly of I-85 on travel from Charlotte to Raleigh, and the missing links are not that long.  

 

As for new freeways in Charlotte,  Independence will be be the next major conversion to an expressway (a classification level lower than freeway, but directionally closer to a freeway than it is now).    It is funded in the 7 year plan and will start construction in 3-4 years with design and land purchases happening soon.   Happily they also plan to build some parallel relief streets in the area as part of the project.  

Beyond that, there are no net new freeways planned, and we have a strategy of upgrading the existing network using managed toll lanes.  That not only helps cover their own very high price tags, but also puts some market pricing on the costs of very wasteful interstate commutes and reduce the perverse incentives that lead to congestion and sprawl.     The issue with the toll lanes north to LKN was that they tried to make it a public-private partnership with a sketchy company.  The new toll lanes will be built more the old fashioned way with public ownership of the lanes and collection of the tolls more like how 540 is done in Raleigh/Cary.  

This is  very wise strategy given the immense costs of perpetually widening freeways, and roughly planning to do them all this way helps reduce bottlenecks at the end of a project.   It also helps to preserve funding for other projects in the city, otherwise widening all of our interstates would consume the entire budget for the region.   

 

The Garden Parkway turned out to be a bit of a corrupt land investment scheme by some General Assembly members, and in general could never be justified by usage.  Instead we have a more simple plan to widen 85 to the SC state line around when SC will be widening their portion of 85.   (SC is already widening it from Spartanburg to Gaffney).    

 

[Sigma]

Additional highway projects in the area include widening NC Hwy 16 from near the Catawba County - Lincoln County line to (correct me if I'm wrong) Newton, NC.  This will allow for speeds 60-70 mph from shortly after Mountain Island Lake to Newton.  This will become a pretty solid alternative to I85/US 321 to get to Hickory and on to the Blowing Rock / Boone area.

[QClifer]

@Sigma do you have a rough timeline of when this will begin??

[dubone]

40 minutes ago, Sigma said:

Additional highway projects in the area include widening NC Hwy 16 from near the Catawba County - Lincoln County line to (correct me if I'm wrong) Newton, NC.  This will allow for speeds 60-70 mph from shortly after Mountain Island Lake to Newton.  This will become a pretty solid alternative to I85/US 321 to get to Hickory and on to the Blowing Rock / Boone area.

It's already competitive with 321, even as a rural road.  But that 8-miles of widening will be nice when complete in a couple years.   However, it is not going to be a freeway, just a divided rural highway with driveways and all that still there.    

Location Description: NC-16 FROM NORTH OF SR-1814 (CALDWELL ROAD) TO SR-1895 (TOWER ROAD). Contractor Name: BLYTHE DEVELOPMENT CO Contract Amount: $41,527,709.79 Cost Overrun/Underrun: 0% Work Began: 06/05/2017 Letting Date: 04/18/2017 Original Completion Date: 01/28/2021 Revised Completion Date: 02/07/2021 Latest Payment Thru: 04/15/2018 Scheduled Progress: 12% Latest Payment Date: 04/24/2018 Actual Progress: 10.46%

[UPNoDa]

44 minutes ago, Sigma said:

Additional highway projects in the area include widening NC Hwy 16 from near the Catawba County - Lincoln County line to (correct me if I'm wrong) Newton, NC.  This will allow for speeds 60-70 mph from shortly after Mountain Island Lake to Newton.  This will become a pretty solid alternative to I85/US 321 to get to Hickory and on to the Blowing Rock / Boone area.

I used to travel to my parents house in Black Mtn via 16 as opposed to 85-321-40  just to save time, but once you past Tower Rd near Maiden, 16 narrows to 1 lane each direction until you turn off on Meridian Dr at the Chevy dealer headed to I-40.  Only then does it go back to four lanes with additional lights so it doesn't really save that much time. 

Don't know what the population is in that area or how many folks would actually use it, but seems they could somehow build a connecter from 16 in Newton over to to 321 in Startown thru the farmlands.