Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[KJHburg]

Hwy 16 north of where it ends now in southern Catawba County is fully underway now.  Dirt is moving utilities moving.   It will be nice to have another 4 lane road that is fairly high speed out of Charlotte towards I-40 that is not 77.   Just like US 321 has become a Charlotte bypass and reduces traffic on 77.  

[southslider]

^16 is a great alternative to 77, except the congestion at 485

 

[KJHburg]

On my way up to Iredell County I noticed on the 77 toll lane construction they are ripping up the median around exit 28.  anyone know why?  from what I see it looks like it is in the wrong place as right south of exit 28 it goes from 2 express toll lanes to just one express lane from exit 28 up to exit 36 Mooresville.  But right around exit 28 they are ripping up the concrete median there. 

1. signage up 2. more signage around exit 25 3.  the Lake is so beautiful 4. new sound walls around exit 31-33     The sound walls are a big thing with this whole project in areas where there were none before especially north of exit 16. 

[Nick2]

US 1 south of Sanford heading towards southern pines and Aberdeen is already partially upgraded. A bypass around the town's to the east would make sense. The us1 and 15/501 corridor is quickly becoming horrendous and the cities there are some of the fastest growing in the whole state. Having highway quality roads from South Raleigh to east CLT would  be great for the state. Us1 will never be upgraded to interstate quality from Rockingham to Columbia. I've driven that route many times and it's deserted. Very few people live there. Only tiny towns and Cheraw are on it.

74 is meant to connect Mt airy/ north WS into Winston via 52 upgrades and also to provide beach traffic a much quicker route from western Virginia, West Virginia, Indian a, Michigan, Ohio, and western Pennsylvania. If you travel on 73/74 south of Greensboro during the summer, the road is actually quite busy even though it's very rural. 74 is already well underway to being fully upgraded from Rockingham to Wilmington. Very few sections are not limited access. 

Many of these new roads may not help Charlotte much but there is another 75% of the people in NC outside of the Charlotte metro that need to be serviced. CLT is growing quickly but most of the rest of the state is either doing the same or moderately growing. The only places stagnant or decreasing are extremely rural in the east or west.

Charlotte's biggest problem is that it only has two thru interstates. And there doesn't seem to be any good way to fix that aside from obvious widening. Maybe they can do a third further out loop (just kidding, it didn't turn out well in any city that has one).

There's no reason to dislike other areas of the state getting upgrades. We're all North Carolinians right?

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Also, I-74 helps connect the Triad with southwest Virginia, namely I-81, which is a Triad alternative to DC/Baltimore when I-85/95 is too odious.

[NcSc74]

On 4/23/2018 at 2:18 PM, Scribe said:

Don't mind them... sometimes they forget that there is a whole state outside Charlotte... while Charlotte was shafted in $ most of the time  by GA... that does not make it OK to just ignore the rest of the state's infrastructure!

I appreciate the counter POV.  But I am very aware of the infrastructure needs of the state.  I know Wilmingotn was left in the weeds for years without meaningful infrastrucutre investment.  And what do you know when investment comes so does growth.  The state port is growing in container moves expoenetially.  I know that an interstate link should have been built from CLT (277) to WLM state port 30-40years ago.  Same time 26, 16 were being completed to their cities.  However, the Triad has more infrastucture investment than the whole state combined but is the slowest percentage of growth of the big 3 metros for 20 years..

  I am merely saying that the state's largest city, one of the the south's biggest GDP regions, is sorely underserved infrastucture wise.  Also, I do think the beltway model is outdated.   Cities should be looking inward to improve urban road capacity, regional connectivity for commerce, commuter rail-public transport needs instead of building networks known to increase sprawl.  Finally, why does NC not invest in its own industries and transport networks as other states do.  Case in point, neighbor states ensure their money makers are well connected and that vision was done decades ago..  Even though nobody knew CLT would blow up like she did but why does it seem our leaders are always 20 years late to implement new ideas.  Or even current ones.  

[NcSc74]

23 hours ago, Nick2 said:

US 1 south of Sanford heading towards southern pines and Aberdeen is already partially upgraded. A bypass around the town's to the east would make sense. The us1 and 15/501 corridor is quickly becoming horrendous and the cities there are some of the fastest growing in the whole state. Having highway quality roads from South Raleigh to east CLT would  be great for the state. Us1 will never be upgraded to interstate quality from Rockingham to Columbia. I've driven that route many times and it's deserted. Very few people live there. Only tiny towns and Cheraw are on it.

74 is meant to connect Mt airy/ north WS into Winston via 52 upgrades and also to provide beach traffic a much quicker route from western Virginia, West Virginia, Indian a, Michigan, Ohio, and western Pennsylvania. If you travel on 73/74 south of Greensboro during the summer, the road is actually quite busy even though it's very rural. 74 is already well underway to being fully upgraded from Rockingham to Wilmington. Very few sections are not limited access. 

Many of these new roads may not help Charlotte much but there is another 75% of the people in NC outside of the Charlotte metro that need to be serviced. CLT is growing quickly but most of the rest of the state is either doing the same or moderately growing. The only places stagnant or decreasing are extremely rural in the east or west.

Charlotte's biggest problem is that it only has two thru interstates. And there doesn't seem to be any good way to fix that aside from obvious widening. Maybe they can do a third further out loop (just kidding, it didn't turn out well in any city that has one).

There's no reason to dislike other areas of the state getting upgrades. We're all North Carolinians right?

I totally agree but what I wish is that NCGA would realize their strategic vision is flawed.  NC is no doubt a multi-nodal state so in turn I think the money should prioritize several nodes.  It is unfortunate that everyone can't get their wishes but their shuold be a hierarchy.   From what I've seen in my travels Charlotte is getting left behind in infrastrucutre investment.  Thats all I'm saying.

[Crucial_Infra]

Leaving uptown yesterday heading north on 77 from Brookshire and then onto the 85 northbound merge 

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Crucial_Infra

[Dale]

Just saw on the news where inflamed citizens want the I-77 contract terminated. Do they want to bring construction to a grinding halt or just see the improvements completed but without toll lanes ?

[southslider]

^the latter

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Just saw on the news where inflamed citizens want the I-77 contract terminated. Do they want to bring construction to a grinding halt or just see the improvements completed but without toll lanes ?

Even if the state ends that contract or buys Cintra out, it will remain a toll road.  That state is not going to change that believe me. 

[southslider]

^true, but then not locked in for 50 years 

 

[KJHburg]

I don't see any tolls going away once started in NC because after the many years of paying for the highway then there  will be maintenance etc.  Virginia is one of the few states that I have seen tolls disappear like on I-95 through Richmond and on the VA Beach expressway.   Georgia did remove the toll on GA 400 N of Buckhead.   

I don't like the deal but toll express lanes will become more common in NC as they everywhere in the US.  Blame California I think they were invented in southern California. 

Georgia is adding them up I-75 NW of Atlanta and they are already on I-85 NE of town. 

[go_vertical]

Being from Orlando I'm not overly bothered with the arrival of tolls. There you only have one free major thoroughfare (I-4). If that's backed up, and it usually is, you can always take one of the many area toll roads (408, 417, 414, 429, 451 (a short toll spur off of a toll road)508, 528, and the turnpike. Eventually it becomes a part of daily life that you don't even think about. 

The part that bothers me is that in Florida you don't have state income tax and no property tax on vehicles. So, the reality of spending 10, 20, 30 bucks a week on tolls doesn't hurt too bad. Here, we're being taxed out the wazoo and then have to pay the tolls. I think there needs to be at least a little bit of give somewhere.

[Spartan]

Florida also has a bazillion tourists every year and the sales tax revenue to allow them to have no income tax. 

I think a lot of the general public doesn't understand that these tolls are option. Since there will still be free "general purpose" lanes, you aren't being forced to hand over any of your money. Essentially all these lanes are doing is guaranteeing a travel time when you need it. And since it will still function as an HOV lane, you can ride in the toll lanes for free when you aren't driving alone, which is exactly how it works today.

[go_vertical]

Good point about tourism. Honestly don't know how I had forgotten about that. 

I plan on using the tolls whenever I'm heading north on 77, which isn't very often. TBH I don't feel the traffic is quite as bad here as many others do. Having lived in Orlando, Miami, and a brief stint in the Atlanta metro I guess I've grown used to some of the worst offenders in the southeast. Now, in 5 to 10 years, with continued growth, I could see Charlotte becoming as bad as central FL and potentially looking like the south FL of today within 20.

[KJHburg]

My business takes me all over the metro area and I will get a toll transponder in case I need to get up to Lake Norman or Mooresville asap or around Monroe.  But it is an option and like any business if the tolls are too high people won't use them thus decreasing the price of the toll.   

Texas especially in Dallas and Houston have express lanes all over the city and they are an option for you can stay on the regular LBJ or Katy lanes respectively if you want. 

 

[Matthew.Brendan]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

I think a lot of the general public doesn't understand that these tolls are option. Since there will still be free "general purpose" lanes, you aren't being forced to hand over any of your money. Essentially all these lanes are doing is guaranteeing a travel time when you need it. And since it will still function as an HOV lane, you can ride in the toll lanes for free when you aren't driving alone, which is exactly how it works today.

Ding ding ding! Which is exactly why I simply don’t understand when people start hyperventalating over the tolls lanes. 

[AuLukey]

I use the turnpike every time I head down to south Florida and the interstate tolls lanes in Atlanta and Miami. They each have their merits, but I feel like a separate toll road would have been much less polarizing than using the space on a previously un-widened I-77. The issue is the “why not me” problem. Every other interstate and major highway in Charlotte has been widened with free lanes while Northern Meck remained congested. When it finally became their turn, it seems like they got the shaft.

I found this graphic on highway creation and widening in Charlotte. It’s obviously skewed, but it does a decent job of explaining the point.

[KJHburg]

77 and 277 interchange express lanes improvement but these are for the new ramps.  Even if you don't use the toll lanes this will be improvement in a big way. 

[Crucial_Infra]

4 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

77 and 277 interchange express lanes improvement but these are for the new ramps.  Even if you don't use the toll lanes this will be improvement in a big way. 

When is this expected to be completed? 

[KJHburg]

^^ They say at the end of the year this year but I am not so sure this seems to be behind but maybe someone else knows.

 

[Crucial_Infra]

Yeah no way this is done in eight months. 

[allthingsplanes]

4 hours ago, AuLukey said:

I use the turnpike every time I head down to south Florida and the interstate tolls lanes in Atlanta and Miami. They each have their merits, but I feel like a separate toll road would have been much less polarizing than using the space on a previously un-widened I-77. The issue is the “why not me” problem. Every other interstate and major highway in Charlotte has been widened with free lanes while Northern Meck remained congested. When it finally became their turn, it seems like they got the shaft.

I found this graphic on highway creation and widening in Charlotte. It’s obviously skewed, but it does a decent job of explaining the point.

This is a really awesome graphic.  Thanks for posting!

I tend to fall slightly between.  I am in favor of the express lanes over doing NOTHING.  And I am a big advocate of the argument that you don't have to use the express lanes and can just stick to what you have now.

That said, there are a few things the state did that made this a much harder argument:

1. Not adding ANY new free lanes
2. Similarly - adding 2 toll lanes versus one toll and one free (Atlanta just has the one express lane)
3. Bumping up the FREE HOV to 3 people versus 2
4. Partnering with an international company

I understand that it was due to these that they got the cost they needed, but it has made this sell that much harder.

[southslider]

Keep one toll lane, but open one new free lane.