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Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction


monsoon

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The CFI at Brookshire & MHHR is the first of its kind in North Carolina, so there isn't really anything to compare it to. It will help alleviate the horrible traffic backups that happen there, and simultaneously destroy any hope of that area ever evolving into a walkable urban activity center as is called for in the area plan.

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as I was up in Mooresville yesterday I was trying to imagine this new intersection of Hwy 150 with Williamson/Bluefield Rd in Mooresville.  I was telling my friend up there about it.  Here is the video showing that particular intersection on the NC DOT page.     In the video of the continuous flow intersection the Lowes in the lower right corner, Food Lion in the upper right corner and the Target anchored shopping center in the upper left corner.  https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/nc150/

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Not sure if this is the appropriate thread (no hate please) and indeed initiated a search for both HSR as well as High Speed Rail for SE corridor yielded no results so mods, please feel free to move this to correct thread.....

Seems  DC and Baltimore have something exciting in the planning stages so my question is for those in the know, is there even a remote possibility for us as a region to connect to this project ending in Baltimore and subsequently get ATL on board in lieu of the planned HSR that will NEVER be built?

I'm just throwing this out there because all other options seem light years away.

 

https://www.boringcompany.com/eastcoast/

 

 

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^^^ When I'm Governor, I'll build the Piedmont Crescent Loop from Raleigh to Charlotte under the Uwharries. (I'll build a lot of crucial infra everywhere and you guys will love it!) I might build a spaghetti junction on The Square. 

Edited by Crucial_Infra
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1 hour ago, UPNoDa said:

I'm just throwing this out there because all other options seem light years away.

What I find pretty awesome is that they are actually digging on both coasts in parallel (LA/Hawthorne and DC/Maryland) while bidding on the Chicago airport system as well.

I am fairly skeptical at the moment on the system but I would not bet my savings against Elon and pretty sure some cool things will come out of this. If all they can accomplish is to speedup/automate tunnel building by a factor of 10 (like they are aiming to do) this will still be a massive improvement and contribution to the industry.

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9 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

^^^ When I'm Governor, I'll build the Piedmont Crescent Loop from Raleigh to Charlotte under the Uwharries. (I'll build a lot of crucial infra everywhere and you guys will love it!) I might build a spaghetti junction on The Square. 

When I'm Governor I'll build the Tryon Turnpike;. Start in New Bern under Fort Bragg thru Uwharries to Charlotte then northwest to Ashville.  I may even elevate it like the Selmon in Tampa right over LevinLand; maybe the reduced land values will encourage a building boom.

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^The entire 277 loop is extremely outdated by about 30 years or so. Choose your exit/entrance points carefully but no matter which you choose, you will more than likely have to fight 2 or 3 lanes of traffic irregardless of the intended route. (Indicator signal activated)

Oh, and God forbid anyone lets you over (I'm speaking to you New York plates) because once you are past the point of no return, it's an absolute nightmare to have to find the next exit and backtrack. Anybody else with me on this because Charlotte CAN do better?

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:29 PM, tozmervo said:

I think it means that left-turns will require two lights? It seems like they just shift the left turn movement a little bit away from the central intersection. It's hard for me to visualize how this is any more efficient. And god help the pedestrian or cyclist navigating through this thing.

Continuous_Flow_Intersection.gif

I understand the concept of continuous flow intersections, but it seems to me that they just create a lot more points of possible collisions due to all the intersecting streets, never mind that they will be an absolute PITA for pedestrians to navigate due to all the crossings they will have to make.  Diverging diamond intersections probably provide the best balance for traffic and pedestrians (although they still have to make a couple of crossings).

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What I'm not clear on is why this is better than old school jug handles, which have been around for eons, are simpler, and can also turn a full movement intersection into a two phase signal. Neither is very friendly to pedestrians. I guess this one might take up a bit less land (though even that's not entirely clear) but it has four additional traffic signals which could be timed to allow similar capacity, but makes designing and building the signals and building all the channelization would be much more complicated and expensive.

Maybe it's something psychological about motorists not wanting to pass through the same intersection twice, or expecting to make left turns from the left lane.

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Buyout of I-77 contact is moving forward slowly but I am betting there will still be 2 toll lanes from uptown to exit 28 to pay it off but at least not under the 50 yr Cintra contract.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/06/01/could-state-roads-bond-solve-i-77-contract-buyout.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-06-01&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1527882730&j=81912551

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That's good.  I'm very much pro express lanes for urban interstate expansion to remedy to the wasteful use of the interstate for long commutes from sprawl, but the Cintra contract to try to make it a public-private partnership has always been such a mess and contrary to the public good.  

I'm relieved the other toll lanes are progressing with more traditional public bonds backed by the tolls. 

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I-85 widening to 8 lanes  through Cabarrus County should be open later this year the Rowan County portion a little longer but at least the heaviest commuter flow is still in Cabarrus county so backups should be really lessened. http://www.independenttribune.com/news/i--closure-delayed-to-next-week/article_3f2624e6-6996-11e8-b753-a3368fed8a88.html

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1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

I-85 widening to 8 lanes  through Cabarrus County should be open later this year the Rowan County portion a little longer but at least the heaviest commuter flow is still in Cabarrus county so backups should be really lessened. http://www.independenttribune.com/news/i--closure-delayed-to-next-week/article_3f2624e6-6996-11e8-b753-a3368fed8a88.html

Thank. God.  

No more 49/64 to raleigh 

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12 hours ago, southslider said:

^Widening I-85 to 8 lanes but keeping I-77 at 4 lanes is pretty much Exhibit A on why Lake Norman hates Raleigh so much.

That got me curious and I pulled up the 2016 traffic counts. From Uptown to Burton Smith, 85 carries something like 40 thousand more cars than 77 to Gilead Road does (lets call it about 41% more). But once you get past Burton Smith and Gilead, respectively, the interstates have virtually the same traffic counts.

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5 hours ago, tozmervo said:

That got me curious and I pulled up the 2016 traffic counts. From Uptown to Burton Smith, 85 carries something like 40 thousand more cars than 77 to Gilead Road does (lets call it about 41% more). But once you get past Burton Smith and Gilead, respectively, the interstates have virtually the same traffic counts.

I have some friends in the northern towns, who normally would take 77, that divert to the wider, flowing 85 via Bruton/ 485 because of traffic and capacity on 77. How much of that 40,000 is diverted 77 southbound traffic? Granted, they may just be a few of the outliers because of the side of 77 they live on in the northern territories. Who knows? 

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8 hours ago, tozmervo said:

That got me curious and I pulled up the 2016 traffic counts. From Uptown to Burton Smith, 85 carries something like 40 thousand more cars than 77 to Gilead Road does (lets call it about 41% more). But once you get past Burton Smith and Gilead, respectively, the interstates have virtually the same traffic counts.

 That's around Concord and with the widening already completed there.  And yet the section of 77 in Huntersville being widened for toll lanes has 40 thousand more cars than the section of 85 in Kannapolis currently being widened for free lanes.

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On 6/9/2018 at 11:06 PM, KJHburg said:

I-85 widening to 8 lanes  through Cabarrus County should be open later this year the Rowan County portion a little longer but at least the heaviest commuter flow is still in Cabarrus county so backups should be really lessened. http://www.independenttribune.com/news/i--closure-delayed-to-next-week/article_3f2624e6-6996-11e8-b753-a3368fed8a88.html

Thank you for the update!  I've seen new lane markings across all four lanes on various parts in Kannapolis and wondered if we were close.

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Not saying that 77 shouldn’t have received more free lanes, but I do think 85 is seen as more of a backbone for the state (it connects all three major metros as well as Greenville and Atlanta). 77 does connect to Columbia and has lots of freight and regional traffic to Ohio etc but may not be considered as high of a priority from the state’s perspective. 

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9 minutes ago, CLTranspo said:

Not saying that 77 shouldn’t have received more free lanes, but I do think 85 is seen as more of a backbone for the state (it connects all three major metros as well as Greenville and Atlanta). 77 does connect to Columbia and has lots of freight and regional traffic to Ohio etc but may not be considered as high of a priority from the state’s perspective. 

I think that's a legitimate consideration from a regional perspective. 77 is no slouch in carrying regional traffic, but from a high-level view it would seem 85 is more critical in inter-regional transit, not just intra-regional. South Carolina is currently widening 85 to 6 lanes from Spartanburg to the state line. Once that happens, 85 will be at least 6 lanes all the way from Anderson, SC to the I-40 split approaching Durham except for a 10 mile stretch on our side of the state line with SC. 

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On 6/11/2018 at 11:54 AM, tozmervo said:

I think that's a legitimate consideration from a regional perspective. 77 is no slouch in carrying regional traffic, but from a high-level view it would seem 85 is more critical in inter-regional transit, not just intra-regional. South Carolina is currently widening 85 to 6 lanes from Spartanburg to the state line. Once that happens, 85 will be at least 6 lanes all the way from Anderson, SC to the I-40 split approaching Durham except for a 10 mile stretch on our side of the state line with SC. 

I agree that 77 isn't very high on the state's priority list, despite clearly needing major (preferably free) improvements. It's certainly not on Raleigh's radar, simply because it's hardly used by anyone in Raleigh. I've lived in North Carolina my entire life, on both sides of the state, and can count the number of times I've been on 77 with my fingers. I've never even been on the section between 85 and 40, whereas I've traveled every mile of 26, 40, 85, and 95.

 

I think South Carolina is currently only widening 85 to the Broad River between Gaffney and Blacksburg, with the widening to the state line starting in the next year or so. Widening to six lanes from our side of the state line to 74 is estimated to begin around 2024.

Edited by cowboy_wilhelm
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19 minutes ago, cowboy_wilhelm said:

I agree that 77 isn't very high on the state's priority list, despite clearly needing major (preferably free) improvements. It's certainly not on Raleigh's radar, simply because it's hardly used by anyone in Raleigh. I've lived in North Carolina my entire life, on both sides of the state, and can count the number of times I've been on 77 with my fingers. I've never even been on the section between 85 and 40, whereas I've traveled every mile of 26, 40, 85, and 95.

 

I think South Carolina is currently only widening 85 to the Broad River between Gaffney and Blacksburg, with the widening to the state line starting in the next year or so. Widening to six lanes from our side of the state line to 74 is estimated to begin around 2024.

1- The so-called "free" improvements won't do anything to fix traffic in the long run. As has been demonstrated by every other major city in America, widening lanes does not fix congestion in major cities. It just delays it.

2- South Carolina is widening 85 from Spartanburg (where it currently drops to 2 lanes in each direction) to the Broad River, which is just east of Gaffney. There is a separate project that will widen the rest of it to the state line. All of these projects are supposed to be complete around the end of 2021, so probably early 2022 if all goes well and there aren't the usual weather delays that affect roadway projects.

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