Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Dale]

Drove I-77 to Mooresville the other day. And I was shocked. It has the feel of being years away from completion. Took nearly an hour and a half to get from Matthews to Mooresville.

[jjwilli]

Yeah the construction on 77 has seemed chaotic from the beginning. Pretty sure a few weeks ago I saw them  destroying a concrete barrier that they had built only a few months prior.  Plans changed? Or they just put in the wrong place to begin with?

[Sigma]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

Drove I-77 to Mooresville the other day. And I was shocked. It has the feel of being years away from completion. Took nearly an hour and a half to get from Matthews to Mooresville.

Drove from South Charlotte to Davidson to go to Kindred, my fiance asked me when the construction was supposed to be complete. I told her end of this year early next year, she didn't believe me...

[Dale]

1 hour ago, Sigma said:

Drove from South Charlotte to Davidson to go to Kindred, my fiance asked me when the construction was supposed to be complete. I told her end of this year early next year, she didn't believe me...

Yeah, I was shocked. Had the appearance of just getting started.

[jednc]

4 hours ago, Dale said:

Yeah, I was shocked. Had the appearance of just getting started.

I drive it daily and trust me they've made a lot of progress. I'm not saying it will be finished on time. But honestly, can you think of a road project that has ever finished on time?

[NCMike1990]

Since we're on the subject of I-77 tolls project, here is the June update.  https://www.i77express.com/files/4615/2881/1612/June_Construction_Update-.pdf

[southslider]

Adding a free lane in Huntersville may still have some legs:

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/I-77ExpressLanes/download/local-advisory-group-051018-presentation.pdf

 

[tozmervo]

I actually think most of 77 will be wrapped up, but I can't fathom how they'll finish the interchange with 277 on time. That seems insanely far behind. 

[KJHburg]

^^^ I agree the problem seems to be to me the section from 277 to 77 as being behind the rest of the widening is moving right along.  That is why I was surprised to see such bridge construction going out at the 277/77 intersection.  It will really help traffic once it gets done for sure. 

[dubone]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^^ I agree the problem seems to be to me the section from 277 to 77 as being behind the rest of the widening is moving right along.  That is why I was surprised to see such bridge construction going out at the 277/77 intersection.  It will really help traffic once it gets done for sure. 

This section didn't have the benefit of much space to work with, given the creeks on either side and the tight neighborhood density.  It may seem behind but sometime those things are in the plan, there is just more to do.   Hopefully they do keep it on schedule.  With the controversies around it, missed deadlines would be just an extra layer of mess. 

[KJHburg]

WSOCTV is reporting the 77 express lanes will be done in fall of 2019 and that is much  more believable to me.

 

[grodney]

Speaking of schedules.....I tried to find a project status for the Monroe Bypass but was unsuccessful.  Anybody have a link, or info on whether Dec 2018 is still possible?

[KJHburg]

Based on what I have seen of the Monroe Bypass it looks on schedule as long parts of it are basically done now.  The interchange and split in Stallings is the big project to be completed.  But who knows NC DOT doesn't easily release delay notices. 

[QCxpat]

10 hours ago, KJHburg said:

WSOCTV is reporting the 77 express lanes will be done in fall of 2019 and that is much  more believable to me.

 

 Andrew Dunn's story in today's (06/20/2018) Charlotte Agenda  regarding the status of the toll lanes on I-77.   Excerpt:  

"Even though work crews are actively laying asphalt, there appears to be momentum in Raleigh toward reaching a deal to change or cancel the project."  ...  "There are 2 primary proposals under consideration."  "The first is known as 'Complete and Delete.'  Cintra would finish construction, and the State would essentially buy the company out and make both lanes free."  "The second would change the project to include one toll lane instead of two, with the other new lane being a free lane.  This option is being billed as a compromise."  "In both cases, the State would have to pay Cintra -- but it's unclear exactly how much.  Cost estimates have ranged as high as $289 Million."  "Maintaining one toll lane would obviously be significantly cheaper."

Link to The Agenda story:   https://www.charlotteagenda.com/131358/are-the-i-77-toll-lanes-finally-about-to-die/  --  Charlotte Agenda, "Are the I-77 toll lanes finally about to die?" by Andrew Dunn, June 20, 2018.

Edited June 20, 2018 by QCxpat
correct typos

[KJHburg]

These south Charlotte I-485 toll express lanes will start next summer according to this report.  from I-77 to US 74 Monroe Bypass interchange in Matthews.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/06/20/charlotte-advocacy-group-wants-beltway-toll-lanes.html?ana=e_clt_bn_newsalert&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1529540061&j=82255641

I dont like tolls but they are here to stay in metro Charlotte and other parts of NC. 

[Nick2]

No one likes them but it's  the best way to get interstate  upgrades quickly rather than waiting for federal  money and the horrific bureaucracy that goes with it.

[southslider]

^I like Express Lanes; just prefer those built more for public benefit than private profit. 77 is so clearly being left constrained to generate revenue. The State will have to buy out the contractor even if they convert one of the new toll lanes to general use, but then that's a better design for all users, easing congestion but still rewarding carpool and transit.

[mad_park]

On 6/20/2018 at 4:07 PM, QCxpat said:

 Andrew Dunn's story in today's (06/20/2018) Charlotte Agenda  regarding the status of the toll lanes on I-77.   Excerpt:  

"Even though work crews are actively laying asphalt, there appears to be momentum in Raleigh toward reaching a deal to change or cancel the project."  ...  "There are 2 primary proposals under consideration."  "The first is known as 'Complete and Delete.'  Cintra would finish construction, and the State would essentially buy the company out and make both lanes free."  "The second would change the project to include one toll lane instead of two, with the other new lane being a free lane.  This option is being billed as a compromise."  "In both cases, the State would have to pay Cintra -- but it's unclear exactly how much.  Cost estimates have ranged as high as $289 Million."  "Maintaining one toll lane would obviously be significantly cheaper."

Link to The Agenda story:   https://www.charlotteagenda.com/131358/are-the-i-77-toll-lanes-finally-about-to-die/  --  Charlotte Agenda, "Are the I-77 toll lanes finally about to die?" by Andrew Dunn, June 20, 2018.

Aside from paying Cintra, wouldn't they have to reengineer things for either of those options? If both lanes are free, won't they have to be upgraded to support tractor trailers and integrated into the current two lanes rather than as a separate road with places to get on/off? Same question for moving it to one free lane one toll lane - which seems like would be more expensive vs just making them both free lanes.

[Hushpuppy321]

On 6/18/2018 at 9:28 AM, jjwilli said:

Yeah the construction on 77 has seemed chaotic from the beginning. Pretty sure a few weeks ago I saw them  destroying a concrete barrier that they had built only a few months prior.  Plans changed? Or they just put in the wrong place to begin with?

You are partially correct Sir.  Plans didn't change but something was lost in the translation.  That Concrete Barrier was placed without any Reinforcing Steel.   Approved uses in Georgia but not on NCDOT Projects so someone (Design-Build Contractor) screwed up.   It's being removed and replaced.

On 6/20/2018 at 8:34 AM, KJHburg said:

WSOCTV is reporting the 77 express lanes will be done in fall of 2019 and that is much  more believable to me.

 

Yes Sir!!  Hadn't actually heard that report but I know from first hand experience that they will not make a Dec 2018 Opening.  Late fall 2019 is more accurate.   Road widenings are tremendously expensive, dangerous and much more complicated to build due to maintaining existing thru traffic and building infrastructure (and rehabilitation of infrastructure) in phases.   I wonder if NCDOT will waive the coming LD's?

[Hushpuppy321]

On 6/20/2018 at 8:55 AM, grodney said:

Speaking of schedules.....I tried to find a project status for the Monroe Bypass but was unsuccessful.  Anybody have a link, or info on whether Dec 2018 is still possible?

The contract for Monroe Bypass states a Substantial Completion date of Nov, 27 - 2018.  I believe they will make that date and have the Mainline open to thru traffic.  They'll still probably be shoulder closures/lane closures to finish up any punch lists and other items but they appear to be in good shape to make that date.

On 6/20/2018 at 8:22 PM, KJHburg said:

These south Charlotte I-485 toll express lanes will start next summer according to this report.  from I-77 to US 74 Monroe Bypass interchange in Matthews.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/06/20/charlotte-advocacy-group-wants-beltway-toll-lanes.html?ana=e_clt_bn_newsalert&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1529540061&j=82255641

I dont like tolls but they are here to stay in metro Charlotte and other parts of NC. 

Yes - I just spoke to NCDOT official and the Project being awarded to a contractor (for I-485) will take place this summer (July/Sept timeframe) with setup/mobilization taking place sometime between Nov 2018-April 2019.  Substantial work will probably begin during the late spring or early summer of 2019.  Approximately 1.5 year behind when originally scheduled.  

[Hushpuppy321]

2 hours ago, mad_park said:

Aside from paying Cintra, wouldn't they have to reengineer things for either of those options? If both lanes are free, won't they have to be upgraded to support tractor trailers and integrated into the current two lanes rather than as a separate road with places to get on/off? Same question for moving it to one free lane one toll lane - which seems like would be more expensive vs just making them both free lanes.

Very good questions but I think all is a moot point now that the NCGA seems to have walked away from doing anything with I-77.   I'm not happy or sad with either option.   Buying out the toll lanes would cost hundreds of millions of dollars which could be currently used to widening/expedite other road projects.  I say let Cintra finish construction and manage the lanes.  Take all the 'buyout' money and start immediately widening other Major Secondary Thoroughfares.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

 Take all the 'buyout' money and start immediately widening other Major Secondary Thoroughfares.

I thought that would violate the terms of the Cintra contract?

[videtur quam contuor]

I assume puppy means those roads elsewhere in the state or region, not the roads that are secondary to 77 in Meck. County.

[Hushpuppy321]

Yes - other secondary roads around the CLT Metro.  Not The I-77 corridor.  I just think buying out the contract would be throwing good money after bad.  Let folks who don't like the Toll Lanes ride in the free Lanes.  At least theyll be a choice.  

[Cadi40]

I know this has been discussed before, But recently I was looking at all the future freeway improvements and future freeways. None of them are in the largest city of the state, Charlotte. Most of the new Freeways are in places where population is declining. Some are in places such as Greensboro, Where they have a surplus of Freeways. I understand Charlotte wants transportation options that don’t include Freeways, But let’s be realistic, If no new Freeway or Beltway is built within the next 20 years or so, We will undoubtably be the next Atlanta traffic wise. We’re not going to shift millions of people to not use vital Freeways and instead use Light Rail lines anytime soon unless we have lines connecting most suburbs. Wether we get new transit lines or not, We’ll need more Freeways. Roughly 60 people are moving here a day (Just Charlotte proper, Not including Suburbs and the region) according to a new study. If you multiply that to 20 years. That’s around 100K more people on freeways. Even if Charlotte gets transit connections, Unless you don’t own a car then you will be driving on highways at some point. We need to invest in both transit and highways alike. One doesn’t work without the other. We aren’t going to get the NYC subway system within the next 20 years anyways, Maybe 1 or 2 Light Rail lines at the most. Let’s face it, Charlotte is a car oriented city, It’s going to be sprawling if it’s already not. We need to invest in transit for the inner city and inner city suburbs, and highway connections for the outer suburbs. In the 5 years I’ve lived in Union county, I can tell a notable difference in traffic and ride times to destinations. It roughly takes about 40 minutes to get to the Waverly area from Indian Trail in the morning. Sorry for not creating paragraphs, Just ranting in my spare time .