Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Hushpuppy321]

No worries, rant away.  I agree with you on many levels.  I totally wish the NCDOT funding could be used for Transit Lines.  I'm very eager to see what funding ideas John Lewis CATS CEO comes up with for his Big Bang Transit plan (Red/Silver/Airport Lines).  

As far as Interstate connections in far out / rural lines (Hence I-73, I-74, etc) NCDOT is extending those lines I believe as an interstate connectivity requirement as well as sometype of rural economic investment.

[KJHburg]

77 Express lanes from 85 to  277 Brookshire today and no I was not driving. 

[grodney]

I'm sure I missed the news when these rates were published, but I can't believe the toll for the Monroe Expressway is only $2.54.

https://www.ncquickpass.com/rates-facilities/Pages/monroe-expressway.aspx

 

 

[KJHburg]

11 minutes ago, grodney said:

I'm sure I missed the news when these rates were published, but I can't believe the toll for the Monroe Expressway is only $2.54.

https://www.ncquickpass.com/rates-facilities/Pages/monroe-expressway.aspx

 

 

Have not seen this anywhere on local tv news and watch all the channels.   That highway will be crowded as those rates are great to bypass Monroe, Indian Trail etc.   I will use it for sure going to Wilmington 

[grodney]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Have not seen this anywhere on local tv news and watch all the channels.   

It's an Urban Planet Exclusive!

[Eightane]

This may be more of a 'Big Picture'-style observation, but I wonder how much some of our secondary connections to local metros and micropolitan counties assist with our growth, other patterns and so on. US 321 has just had its newly widened 4-lane segment completely opened to traffic*, making it 4 lanes from Boone well down into York County SC (and for that matter, the reverse is true, naturally). I noticed a MARKED difference in travel time going up, from the last time I tried that route up over the Escarpment.

I don't doubt less-high-profile projects like this will make access to the developed parts of the high country much easier, increase attractiveness for people there as well as one more tiny feather in our cap of offerings to prospective residents. And businesses take notice, speaking as one humble slob who doesn't make my home in a relevant industry, hah.

 

*Finish work remains; the shoulder is unpainted from Blackberry Road to halfway up the last climb, and all of it needs to be restriped at least once.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

They really should have extended the Monroe Expressway over past Wadesboro, actually to the Rockingham Bypass across the Pee Dee River.

[Third Strike]

9 hours ago, DCMetroRaleigh said:

They really should have extended the Monroe Expressway over past Wadesboro, actually to the Rockingham Bypass across the Pee Dee River.

Funding I-73 to literally nowhere is more important to the NCDOT than connecting the largest city in the Carolinas to the largest port in NC. Four Interstate routes and spurs have been announced in the past years in Eastern Carolina, but not a single one for US 74 or even an official proposal. It’s like the NCDOT barely even recognizes anything west of the Triad. It’s pretty sad. 

[Nick2]

21 minutes ago, Third Strike said:

Funding I-73 to literally nowhere is more important to the NCDOT than connecting the largest city in the Carolinas to the largest port in NC. Four Interstate routes and spurs have been announced in the past years in Eastern Carolina, but not a single one for US 74 or even an official proposal. It’s like the NCDOT barely even recognizes anything west of the Triad. It’s pretty sad. 

Connecting the triad, a metro of 1.7 million, to the coast is going nowhere? And clt traffic does benefit from i74 east of rockingham.

Edit: I do agree Charlotte is doesn't receive it's fair share of infrastructure funding from the state and federal  levels but that shouldn't mean hating that other parts of the state are getting new roads and improvements. There is obviously a need for them or the governments wouldn't be spending the billions on it.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Nick2

[southslider]

But if that gap of US-74 were ever finished, then Charlotteans would have to actually visit their own state's beaches.

Edited July 4, 2018 by southslider

[Third Strike]

1 hour ago, Nick2 said:

Connecting the triad, a metro of 1.7 million, to the coast is going nowhere? And clt traffic does benefit from i74 east of rockingham.

Edit: I do agree Charlotte is doesn't receive it's fair share of infrastructure funding from the state and federal  levels but that shouldn't mean hating that other parts of the state are getting new roads and improvements. There is obviously a need for them or the governments wouldn't be spending the billions on it.

I specifically mentioned I-73, not I-74. I-73 will terminate in Rockingham because South Carolina has no ambitions to complete I-73 out to Myrtle Beach. And the same is true for Virginia for the north end. And I-74 and I-73 have the most ridiculous routing in the Carolinas. Why do both need to terminate in Myrtle Beach? Why doesn’t I-74 just end in Wilmington, instead of needlessly turning the other way into South Carolina? Raleigh had no issue getting the delineation for upgrading their highways out to Norfolk, a city in another state, but apparently there isn’t even an official proposal to do the same between two major NC cities. That’s what I have an issue with. 

[Cadi40]

The triad almost has enough Freeways for each citizen.  

[NcSc74]

4 hours ago, Third Strike said:

I specifically mentioned I-73, not I-74. I-73 will terminate in Rockingham because South Carolina has no ambitions to complete I-73 out to Myrtle Beach. And the same is true for Virginia for the north end. And I-74 and I-73 have the most ridiculous routing in the Carolinas. Why do both need to terminate in Myrtle Beach? Why doesn’t I-74 just end in Wilmington, instead of needlessly turning the other way into South Carolina? Raleigh had no issue getting the delineation for upgrading their highways out to Norfolk, a city in another state, but apparently there isn’t even an official proposal to do the same between two major NC cities. That’s what I have an issue with. 

I have been screaming this for years.  Seems there is some lobbying going on or something.  My question why haven't the folks in WLM not raised the biggest fuss over 74.   I swear what folks say about NC is true.  Backwards and constantly cutting off the nose to spite the mouth.

[southslider]

The Triad has 40, 73, 74, and 85. The Triangle has 40, 85, and 87.  Charlotte has only 77 and 85.

Edited July 4, 2018 by southslider

[Cadi40]

If we count beltways we also have 485 and 277. Reguardless we still need more freeways. 

[Third Strike]

2 hours ago, Cadi40 said:

If we count beltways we also have 485 and 277. Reguardless we still need more freeways. 

Here’s a complete list, including spurs, beltways, business routes, and future Interstates.

Triad:

I-85, I-85 Business, I-285, I-785, I-40, I-40 Business, I-840, I-73, I-74, I-274, I-77

Triangle:

I-85, I-885, I-40, I-440, I-540, I-87, I-587, I-42, I-95

Charlotte:

I-85, I-485, I-77, I-277, I-40

[Hushpuppy321]

On 7/3/2018 at 10:12 AM, DCMetroRaleigh said:

They really should have extended the Monroe Expressway over past Wadesboro, actually to the Rockingham Bypass across the Pee Dee River.

Yes - you are so right!  Only reason they haven't I believe is because of the size of the Monroe Bypass Design-Build Project.  19.7 miles long, Nearly $800 Million and already the single largest NCDOT Project ever let (as one Project/contract) in the State.  Extending it to the Rockingham Bypass would be a very logical step but would have to be done as a separate future project.

[Cadi40]

2 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Here’s a complete list, including spurs, beltways, business routes, and future Interstates.

Triad:

I-85, I-85 Business, I-285, I-785, I-40, I-40 Business, I-840, I-73, I-74, I-274, I-77

Triangle:

I-85, I-885, I-40, I-440, I-540, I-87, I-587, I-42, I-95

Charlotte:

I-85, I-485, I-77, I-277, I-40

Funny how that list goes from least populated metro to most populated metro.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

21 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Connecting the triad, a metro of 1.7 million, to the coast is going nowhere? And clt traffic does benefit from i74 east of rockingham.

Edit: I do agree Charlotte is doesn't receive it's fair share of infrastructure funding from the state and federal  levels but that shouldn't mean hating that other parts of the state are getting new roads and improvements. There is obviously a need for them or the governments wouldn't be spending the billions on it.

There already IS an interstate from the Tirad to the coast. Its called I-40.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

 

On 7/3/2018 at 10:12 AM, DCMetroRaleigh said:

They really should have extended the Monroe Expressway over past Wadesboro, actually to the Rockingham Bypass across the Pee Dee River.

On 7/4/2018 at 2:50 PM, Hushpuppy321 said:

Yes - you are so right!  Only reason they haven't I believe is because of the size of the Monroe Bypass Design-Build Project.  19.7 miles long, Nearly $800 Million and already the single largest NCDOT Project ever let (as one Project/contract) in the State.  Extending it to the Rockingham Bypass would be a very logical step but would have to be done as a separate future project.

As a tolled or free facility? A tolled facility would never make enough money to cover the construction cost due to the low traffic volumes along that stretch (or build it and they will come?). I hate to even suggest it, but I wonder if split funding is feasible for future projects? I.e., keep tolls at a reasonable enough price that people will use the highway due to the convenience, and then make up the difference with traditional state funding. That way what was previously a $300 million project and didn't rank high enough is now a $200 million project, and tolls/bonds makes up the rest over the next 30 years. It would probably require new legislation, since I think it is currently set up that any tolled facilities have to be completely paid for with toll revenue and no other sources.

[Nick2]

Fair enough. I see your points. The triad does have an absurdly good interstate system for a metro its size. I73 is concurrent with 74 for most of its route. It ends in rockingham.  And splits from 74 north of asheboro. Then 73 follows the us 220 bypass into greensboro. The only major section that was built was from i85 to the airport.

You've got to keep in mind that the interstates are done on a federal level. They're more interested in connecting traffic from Ohio and western Pennsylvania to the coast for both pleasure and commercial without having to go through the DMV and similar situations. Us 74 absolutely SHOULD be an interstate. It's crazy that it isn't. It's not like they were picking between two interstates and they said "let's build i73 instead of specifically  giving Charlotte additional freeways."

23 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

There already IS an interstate from the Tirad to the coast. Its called I-40.

I40 is already having difficulty handling the volume from the triad through the triangle.

[Spartan]

We don't need any more interstates. I will agree we need a little more capacity on  the ones we have, but the larger issue is that we have rapidly developing parts of Mecklenburg and the surrounding counties, and we aren't adding to the non-interstate "grid" which then forces everyone a significant portion of the county to use the same two roads to get to work everyday. 

[cltbwimob]

12 hours ago, Spartan said:

We don't need any more interstates. I will agree we need a little more capacity on  the ones we have, but the larger issue is that we have rapidly developing parts of Mecklenburg and the surrounding counties, and we aren't adding to the non-interstate "grid" which then forces everyone a significant portion of the county to use the same two roads to get to work everyday. 

I agree on the fact that we need to build out our non interstate grid-what little bit of grid we have-to help alleviate traffic.  At a minimum it would be nice if most of the streets that have been fractured for various reasons like they have been in 4th Ward and some neighborhoods outside Uptown were reconnected.  In areas further out,  even if the roads aren't laid out in a grid per se,, they need to be connected so there are several ways in and out of a neighborhood/subdivision.  Few things irk me more in the realm of city planning than disconnected streets that create unecessarily long trips.  The other day I tried to cut through a neighborhood only to find that the road connecting it to an adjacent neighborhood had concrete blocks blocking the roadway.  I could have gotten out of my car, walked around the blocks and been in the next neighborhood and still only be a few feet from my car, but to drive to the same spot in that adjacent neighborhood would have been a 2.5-3 mile journey.

Having said that I disagree with the assertion that we don't need any more interstates.  We need an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington interstate.  It is unfathomable to me that the state's top port is not connected by interstate to its largest city and largest manufacturing/export region, especially since the port only has access to one Class1 railroad and is highly dependent upon trucks to move goods in and out.  Connecting Asheville to Wilmington and Charlotte I suspect would significantly bolster the intrastate tourism industry as well.  And while they're at it they need to turn US-74 between Uptown and 485 into a limited access freeway if for no other reason but safety.  The right in right out expressway design requiring traffic to  enter from a dead standstill into a road whose traffic is traveling at near interstate speeds can not be very safe.  What's more is that the expressway has sidewalks just a few feet away, and it's a road that carries somewhere in the neighborhood of 70k-80k cars per day (once again at near interstate speeds). I do not know how any pedestrian can feel safe in those conditions; however I've seen people not only utilize the sidewalks but actually jump off the sidewalk to cross the 8 lanes of expressway.    The independence expressway is a death trap in my opinion and needs to be turned into a full fledged freeway  so that ostensibly hazardous right in right out design goes away and to disencentivize people from going anywhere near the road on foot

Edited July 15, 2018 by cltbwimob

[jednc]

On 7/14/2018 at 11:29 PM, cltbwimob said:

I agree on the fact that we need to build out our non interstate grid-what little bit of grid we have-to help alleviate traffic.  At a minimum it would be nice if most of the streets that have been fractured for various reasons like they have been in 4th Ward and some neighborhoods outside Uptown were reconnected.  In areas further out,  even if the roads aren't laid out in a grid per se,, they need to be connected so there are several ways in and out of a neighborhood/subdivision.  Few things irk me more in the realm of city planning than disconnected streets that create unecessarily long trips.  The other day I tried to cut through a neighborhood only to find that the road connecting it to an adjacent neighborhood had concrete blocks blocking the roadway.  I could have gotten out of my car, walked around the blocks and been in the next neighborhood and still only be a few feet from my car, but to drive to the same spot in that adjacent neighborhood would have been a 2.5-3 mile journey.

Having said that I disagree with the assertion that we don't need any more interstates.  We need an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington interstate.  It is unfathomable to me that the state's top port is not connected by interstate to its largest city and largest manufacturing/export region, especially since the port only has access to one Class1 railroad and is highly dependent upon trucks to move goods in and out.  Connecting Asheville to Wilmington and Charlotte I suspect would significantly bolster the intrastate tourism industry as well.  And while they're at it they need to turn US-74 between Uptown and 485 into a limited access freeway if for no other reason but safety.  The right in right out expressway design requiring traffic to  enter from a dead standstill into a road whose traffic is traveling at near interstate speeds can not be very safe.  What's more is that the expressway has sidewalks just a few feet away, and it's a road that carries somewhere in the neighborhood of 70k-80k cars per day (once again at near interstate speeds). I do not know how any pedestrian can feel safe in those conditions; however I've seen people not only utilize the sidewalks but actually jump off the sidewalk to cross the 8 lanes of expressway.    The independence expressway is a death trap in my opinion and needs to be turned into a full fledged freeway  so that ostensibly hazardous right in right out design goes away and to disencentivize people from going anywhere near the road on foot

I couldn't agree more with your three main points.

Neighborhoods should be connected. In some cases neighborhoods have requested barricades be installed to prevent cut-through traffic and the city sometimes installs them. This shouldn't be allowed.

There absolutely should be an Interstate running from Asheville to Charlotte to Wilmington. The route already exists of course and much of it is already to Interstate standards. The rest of the route needs to be upgraded and officially routed. Someone, years ago, had the idea of this being an I-30 extension. Great idea I think.

I was surprised years ago when the work on Independence started to upgrade the road, but NOT to Interstate standards. I know we lament the damage to east side neighborhoods this road has caused, but that damage is done. The road itself should be upgraded to an Interstate out to I-485.

[KJHburg]

When the Shelby bypass is completed you will have a 4 lane freeway for the most part from Asheville to the other side of Wingate east of Monroe using US 74, I=85, I-485 to the soon to open Monroe Bypass toll road.    Wadesboro needs to be bypassed and the rest heading east to Wilmington is freeway or 4 laned .  I do think that I-73 or I-74 should end in Wilmington since SC has no interest in completing it.