Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Raintree21]

Can they just toll the section of 485 between 77 and 85 that's yet to be built? I thought I'd read that you can't toll a road that's already built so this would fit in perfectly with that idea. It's a route that would doubtless be heavily used, especially by truckers so I'm sure it would be a success as long as they don't charge huge prices for access. Can a toll road be temporary, say just until the cost of construction is paid? Or is it something that once you go, you can't come back. I figure that whoever collects the money won't want to get rid of that source of income.

[Spartan]

You can toll a road thats already built, but its not easy to do. They are considering tolling I-95 in South Carolina, and maybe North Carolina too. I don't know what the process is to do it though.

[grodney]

This isn't specific to Meck, but it impacts thousands of us that use Hwy 74 to get to the east side of the state. My apologies in advance for its non-Meckness.

The new Hwy 74 bypass from Maxton to I-95 is coming along well. This will replace the current 2-lane road for that 15ish mile stretch. Although the whole thing isn't scheduled to be done until Dec 2008, the Fayetteville Observer is reporting that part of it will open this month: http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=277348

Google recently updated the aerial image for this area, so you can see the new bypass under construction:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=15&om=1

Or, here is the new route shown in blue, made as an overlay to the aerial image:

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

grodney,

Thanks for the update on US 74 down east. I typically travel that road a few times a year going from Charlotte to the Wilmington area and back, so eliminating the 2-lane section through Robeson County is going to make the trip much easier. However, the worst part of the entire drive is still the nightmare known as Union County. If we can just get the Monroe Bypass built, the drive from Charlotte to Wilmington will be a breeze. Of course, I maintain that I won't drive on a completed bypass in Union County in my lifetime!

[grodney]

If you're in PlazaMidwood, don't you take the "Country Bypass" -- Hwy 218? Or is it not good? I've always had good luck with it.

I don't think it's a secret, but if it is, nevermind, I don't want to make it crowded!

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

If you're in PlazaMidwood, don't you take the "Country Bypass" -- Hwy 218? Or is it not good? I've always had good luck with it. I don't think it's a secret, but if it is, nevermind, I don't want to make it crowded!

As a native of Union County, I know several back roads that get me around the stretch from Indian Trail to Marshville without the agony of US 74. And you're right, I don't want to disclose them!! While I've taken Hwy. 218 numerous times, it seems to have been discovered by many Charlotte area drivers and isn't the secret it used to be, though it's still not a bad route. The trouble on that road comes when you get stuck behind a tractor or Maw-Maw doing 30 mph in her Buick LeSabre, with no passing lanes for miles at a time. I used to take Providence Road to Weddington and jump over to Monroe on Hwy. 84. But with the population explosion and the proliferation of cookie cutter McMansions in that area of Union County, it's no longer much of a "bypass."

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Is there a 74 bypass in Scotland County? Is the Wadesboro bypass still planned?

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

Is there a 74 bypass in Scotland County? Is the Wadesboro bypass still planned?

There is a bypass around Laurinburg and Maxton but the section in western Scotland between the Richmond County line and Laurinburg is still a regular highway. I don't know about the Wadesboro bypass - hopefully ChiefJoJo or someone else may have some info on that. While it would certainly be nice to have the entire length of US 74 from Charlotte to Wilmington as freeway, the only two really bad sections (at least to me) are the 2-lane part in Robeson County and the stretch from Charlotte through Monroe. The other small towns like Wingate, Marshville and Wadesboro are a piece of cake to get through, comparatively speaking.

[grodney]

I don't know about the Wadesboro bypass

I don't either, but I did find this site, which I have no idea what it is:

http://www.rockyriverrpo.org/p_profile.asp?proID=10

And from that R-2411 number, I found this funding table, on which R-2411 appears, but there isn't any info:

http://www.ncdot.org/planning/development/...s/pdf/div10.pdf

Similar document here from the RRRPO site:

http://rockyriverrpo.org/PDFs/RockyRiverRPO_TIP.pdf

In early googling, I remember reading some "town minutes" or something from Wadesboro where they (obviously) want to fight it as longs as they can.

My guess is that it all means that it reamins proposed - but unfunded.

[ChiefJoJo]

There is a bypass around Laurinburg and Maxton but the section in western Scotland between the Richmond County line and Laurinburg is still a regular highway. I don't know about the Wadesboro bypass - hopefully ChiefJoJo or someone else may have some info on that. While it would certainly be nice to have the entire length of US 74 from Charlotte to Wilmington as freeway, the only two really bad sections (at least to me) are the 2-lane part in Robeson County and the stretch from Charlotte through Monroe. The other small towns like Wingate, Marshville and Wadesboro are a piece of cake to get through, comparatively speaking.

I'd take a quick glance at the TIP. Anything that you see labeled "unfunded" is just that... it has no money, and is basically only a long term plan for the state. As bad as this sounds, and mainly because of lack of funding, the only parts that I have any confidence in whatsoever as far as meeting the schedule is the first couple of years of that document, or the "deliverable" projects.

Now, the Monroe Bypass is moving forward, hopefully soon. The Turnpike Authority is managing it, and they are trying to get a contract for construction to begin in 2 years. I know it's long overdue but they are moving as quick as they can, and hopefully, it will be open as a toll road by 2013 and will ease that bottleneck in Union Co.

[dubone]

I moved the transit idea to the 2030 thread:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/Charlott...-Sy-t43044.html

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

There was a report on News14 Carolina tonight that said the City of Charlotte is looking at legal options against the state due to the fact that they refuse to fix our burned-out interstate lights and signs. As has been discussed earlier in this thread, the NCDOT wants Charlotte to use money from our local road-building fund to repair the lights instead of the state addressing it as a maintenance issue. They showed a City Council meeting and a visibly ticked off Mayor McCrory saying he was unaware of any other city in the nation of this size that didn't have its highways and road signs lit, as well as mentioning the safety issues of our dark interstates. He lamented the lack of response on the part of the NCDOT central office in Raleigh where this ongoing problem is concerned.

Edited November 27, 2007 by PlazaMidwoodGuy

[ChiefJoJo]

This is worth a repost, given this morning's article on the city council meeting last night.

Here's the lighting situation:

• solar won't work--too costly (almost as much as total rebuild and would involve dbl or triple the poles)
  
• solar lighting performance might still be lower than std system + increased maint. headache with more poles
  
• DOT total maint. budget is $35M per year for all division (5 counties)--$20M for SRs, $15M for highways
  
• DOT has prev. tried to do small fixes at $250k ea, but won't work with old system (~40 yrs old, end of useful life)
  
• total rebuild probably costs $7M, maybe just for Brookshire Frwy (unclear at this point)
  
• rebuild of lighting system is outside scope and budget of avail. state maint funds (only minor repaving, potholes, guardrails, etc)
  
• $7M rebuild requires MPO/city to agree to prioritize federal interstate funds for new capital project
  
• if prioritized, could be underway by Mar/Apr 08.
  

The mayor's comments about 'if there were lights on the Raleigh outerbelt I bet they'd they'd be fixed' just feed the erroneous 'Raleigh-centric' funding paranoia. It is ironic too, since there are no lights on any Raleigh freeways, so as a matter of fact they're all dark, as are most other freeways in NC (there are standards that must be met for lights to be installed on a project). Of course, I understand that DOT plays the perfect political scapegoat and McCrory knows it.

Legal action by the city against the state would be a very bad move IMO. As it stands, there will be a plan to use local TIP funds to fix them presented in Jan. Local "capital maintenance" funds are required because the system needs a total rebuild... it's over 40 years old and has exceeded it's useful life expectancy. The state does this on major interstate repaving jobs as well, so this is really nothing new.

[Raintree21]

Speaking of lights, I noticed last night that one of the new test solar lights is already not working.

[Justadude]

I also feel that it's a bad political move to stir up trouble over this issue. It's annoying, yes; but it's hardly a vital infrastructure issue. Though unlit, the highways work fine without lights. If the city initiates legal action against the state, that will create an unnecessarily bitter environment in the future when more critical issues are being discussed.

Of course I'm glad to see the mayor pushing hard for a solution to such ridiculous neglect, but the long-term relationship between the state and city needs to be healthy at a time when we're making major changes to our transportation infrastructure.

[Miesian Corners]

Not sure if this is the place to put this, but doesn't the image speak volumes?

[Andyc545]

That's a picture that speaks with power. Thanks for posting that

[Spartan]

Hah, I love that one. A classic. It speaks volumes on traffic.

[ChiefJoJo]

BTW, on the lights... a pretty staggering stat straight from DOT's Division Engineer's mouth: Mecklenburg County has 1/3 of the entire state of NC's overhead freeway lighting. (1,500 of 4,500 total) So, once again, the mayor's comments ring hollow.

It's looking more likely that the major reconstruction of the Brookshire Freeway lights will commence this spring ($6.5M) and the other lights on I-85 & 77 will be repaired as well. Those need much less work, such as repairing isolated wiring and bulbs. Also, there are times when lights have gone out at certain locations not due to NCDOT equipment problems, but localized 'grid' issues with Duke Energy equipment.

[ChiefJoJo]

There's an article in the Observer today about a potential 1/4 cent sales tax increase for roads. It's a difficult situation because some would argue that the urban areas should fight to get more money from the state (equity formula), but that has proven to be a political on-starter in the past. A quarter penny sales tax isn't too much (raises ~$35M/yr), but it would target an already high sales tax when compared to other NC counties. Also, a 0.4% land transfer tax would likely raise more (~$45M), would avoid touching the sales tax, and many say targets growth in a more strategic way (land sales)... of course, developers and real estate agents don't want to hear that, which is probably why the Chamber is opposed to it at this point. IMO, any local tax should use the York Co model as an example... have a referendum on specific projects (scope, budget, timeline) and include a sunset date. The public is always more likely to support a tax when they know exactly how it will be spent.

Despite local efforts, most around the state are awaiting the results of the 21st Century Committee recomendations in May, but they will most likely be targeting toll road gap funding, ending the highway trust fund tranfer to the general fund (~$170M/yr), and perhaps local county options (local control?). The General Assembly will have to approve any new taxes or fees, which will be a tough sell in an election year for county commissioners, and state reps, and Governor.

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

So, once again, the mayor's comments ring hollow.

Actually, with all due respect, they don't. The state installed the lights that line I-277, I-77 and I-85 in Charlotte and Mecklenburg County. Therefore it is, and always has been, the state's responsibility to MAINTAIN them. I can't speak to why lights weren't incorporated into the design of some state-maintained highways in Raleigh or Durham or any other city in North Carolina, for that matter. But if you build it, then you have the responsibility of maintaining it.

The fact that NCDOT has neglected the highway lights in Charlotte and Mecklenburg County since the 1980's has only made the problem worse and caused the repairs to be more costly to taxpayers. Had they kept these lights and their circuitry in proper working order over the last 20 years, they wouldn't be faced with suddenly having to spend ridiculous amounts of money to repair them! Charlotte's freeways have been in the dark since WAY before there was a budget crisis in Raleigh. This is not a new issue, nor is it a complicated one. Or at least, it shouldn't be. And now the state says our particular highway division should spend money allocated for road building by the asinine "equity formula" (as dictated by the Down East-controlled legislature) for the repair and maintenance of lights?!

Meanwhile, we get to choose which controlled access freeways we want to drive between tobacco farms in eastern NC.

Edited December 17, 2007 by PlazaMidwoodGuy

[ChiefJoJo]

Actually, with all due respect, they don't. The state installed the lights that line I-277, I-77 and I-85 in Charlotte and Mecklenburg County. Therefore it is, and always has been, the state's responsibility to MAINTAIN them. I can't speak to why lights weren't incorporated into the design of some state-maintained highways in Raleigh or Durham or any other city in North Carolina, for that matter. But if you build it, then you have the responsibility of maintaining it.

The fact that NCDOT has neglected the highway lights in Charlotte and Mecklenburg County since the 1980's has only made the problem worse and caused the repairs to be more costly to taxpayers. Had they kept these lights and their circuitry in proper working order over the last 20 years, they wouldn't be faced with suddenly having to spend ridiculous amounts of money to repair them! Charlotte's freeways have been in the dark since WAY before there was a budget crisis in Raleigh. This is not a new issue, nor is it a complicated one. Or at least, it shouldn't be. And now the state says our particular highway division should spend money allocated for road building by the asinine "equity formula" (as dictated by the Down East-controlled legislature) for the repair and maintenance of lights?!

Meanwhile, we get to choose which controlled access freeways we want to drive between tobacco farms in eastern NC.

I never argued that it's not the state's responsibility--it is. I will agree with you that it has taken too long for this to be resolved, but hopefully the project will get underway in the late winter/early spring. Also, the bold statement is not true. At some point, infrastructure reaches it's useful life, and must be replaced (patchwork won't do). You might be able to patch your roof at home for for a few years, but eventually, you must pay for the replacement cost of the roof... that's what we're talking about here, and there have been other examples of so called "capital" dollars being spent on "maintenance" projects everywhere in the state, so it's not a new idea... just because it doesn't seem right to you doesn't mean you're getting screwed, and don't believe everything the mayor or media feeds you.

The whole down east legislative thing is another story altogether... we all know there isn't enough money to go around. I don't know what to tell you other than vote for state reps who will change the system and have the backbone to raise taxes.

[Sabaidee]

On Fox Charlotte tonight it reported that the opening of I-485 from NC 16 to I-77 will be delayed due to ROW and utilities relocation issues. However it didn't mention how long the delay will be. IMO this leg of I-485 is crucial because it will serve as a bypass for the heavily congested I-77.

[Spartan]

A bypass it may be, but will it actually save you time? Some how I doubt it.

[Sabaidee]

A bypass it may be, but will it actually save you time? Some how I doubt it.

It probably won't, but I'm hoping that it will eliminate some non-local and truck traffic away from I-77. I don't view the bypass as a mean to save travel time, but an avoidance of congestion. During races at Lowe's, the NCDOT encourage out-of-towners traveling from I-77 South to take the I-485 through Matthews and Mint Hill to avoid lengthly backs up on I-85 and congestion through the Uptown areas.