Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[coreyt]

A bypass it may be, but will it actually save you time? Some how I doubt it.

Have you ever driven on 77 at rush hour???? This will save a good half an hour to 45 minutes northbound!!

[grodney]

The I-77 route is about 17.8 miles. The 485 route will be about 21.7 miles. So right around 4 miles longer on 485. That's less than 4 minutes at top speeds, and since I expect to 485 to be nearly top speed, it will be a substantial shortcut.

I don't know if you'll be able to see this, but using the aerial image, I drew in the future road on google maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp...p;z=13&om=1

[Spartan]

Have you ever driven on 77 at rush hour???? This will save a good half an hour to 45 minutes northbound!!

Unfortunately, yes. gradney saw my point though, that it is a longer distance around the loop. If it really is an effective "pressure release valve" for 77, then it will eventually get just a clogged up, just like Atlanta's perimeter I personally don't think it will save that much time in the long run.

[monsoon]

^Whether of not it gets clogged up is highly dependent upon Charlotte restricting development at the exits like it says it will. They failed to do this around Pineville mall and we have the mess that we see today. They have been much better about it in NE Charlotte (between 85N and Independence) and that route is a substantial shortcut over going through town.

I suspect that when it opens, taking I-485 from Huntersville to S. Charlotte will be a much easier and quicker drive than attempting to travel down the overloaded and falling apart I-77.

[johnpro318]

^Whether of not it gets clogged up is highly dependent upon Charlotte restricting development at the exits like it says it will. They failed to do this around Pineville mall and we have the mess that we see today. They have been much better about it in NE Charlotte (between 85N and Independence) and that route is a substantial shortcut over going through town.

I suspect that when it opens, taking I-485 from Huntersville to S. Charlotte will be a much easier and quicker drive than attempting to travel down the overloaded and falling apart I-77.

Unfortunately, Charlotte will probably give in to development. It seems to every time.

[dubone]

No one is expecting that area around 485 in the west to stay rural forever. There is a city plan for much of that area, and we can expect that to be operated on. Charlotte promised to keep it rural when NCDOT was designing the southern leg, but that was just a mistake of foresight. There was no way that the city of Charlotte was going to be able to stay within their 1970s boundaries. The rest of 485 was designed with more reasonable expectations that it would get developed, but could not be developed with the intensity of the Southern section.

Charlotte has made plans for areas around the interchanges, and while not perfect by any means, there have been a number of cases both in the western and eastern sections where they have stuck to the plans despite an active proposal. So we need to expect that because this is a growing city, that 485 will also fill up and not be as empty as today, but that there is no way the city should allow the intensity along those interchanges unless they have made the proper street improvements. I believe the Prosperity Church Road interchange is one that they plan to allow more intensive uses to create a village there, because they redesigned the interchange to be more urban and grid-like. That type of planning is good. We don't want 485 to be only a bypass for the city, but we want rational planning so that it still moves forward and the design of the area can be of higher quality.

[ChiefJoJo]

The newly formed 21st Century Transportation Committee has it's next meeting on Jan 16 at the Charlotte Convention Center. Scheduled to speak are both now-retired CDOT Director, Jim Humphrey, and new CATS CEO, Keith Parker. The agenda and more info on that group's chage, are in the link provided.

For those more curious, here is an interview of the group's chair, Brad Wilson. Interestingly, he said the only project that the group is going to discuss is the Yadkin River Bridge over I-85. That project has been mentioned as a potential toll project, but given it's statewide significance, from a policy perspective, it makes more sense to try to find a way to pay for it in via some other method.

I have no illusions of grandeur for this commission, but I do see this as at least a step forward in the discussion, that the transportation is being discussed at the state level. I wouldn't expect a huge windfall of new cash for roads (that must be decided by the General Assembly anyway) but hopefully they'll make some recommendations for short term fixes this year (end hwy trust fund transfer, toll road funds, state bond?), and then more longer-term solutions to be considered by the next Governor in 2009.

[Raintree21]

The Providence Road widening south of 485 has been pushed back to a start date of March.

[NcSc74]

I read something that is worth throwing up a red flag. Seems a lot of states have completed or planning to install tolls and build new toll roads like NC is thinking of doing. Well it turns out these roads that are built and managed by private companies insert "noncompete" claus in the build contracts that literally makes the free arterials the worst option for commuters. Things such as lowering of the speed limit, installation of new stoplights and clauses that prevent the improvement of the free roads for years. Some of these places like Austin and southern California near Anaheim come to mind triggering protest from taxpayers and costing elected officials their jobs. I truly hope that before any toll road or expressway is signed off on in NC the contract is reviewed and these noncompete laws are not inserted. I might be a little late but I thought it was good info to pass along.

[New Name]

NCDOT has installed a radar speed display on the ramp leading from I85 North to I77North. Seems they got tired of replacing the guardrail every few weeks. I doubt it will make a huge difference, but who knows...

[Raintree21]

They've (there is one on 85S to 77S also) been there for about 2 months now. The O did an article on it 2 or 3 weeks ago and they think it's reduced the number of wrecks but can't be certain just yet.

[Andyc545]

They've (there is one on 85S to 77S also) been there for about 2 months now. The O did an article on it 2 or 3 weeks ago and they think it's reduced the number of wrecks but can't be certain just yet.

I saw it. I don't know how effective it can be on a multi-lane highway though. What I think would be more effective in getting riders to slow down around that curve is either flashing lights at 2 or 3 spots leading up to the curb above the exit, or what I dislike usually but is effective- road bumps that pretty much force you to slow down, like they installed at the end of 485 merging onto 85.

[dubone]

While I'm not sure it will help his bid for governor, the mayor is really pushing to make the road funding formula a big political topic.

http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/450123.html

I'm glad they are also mentioning the screwed up logic of having the transportation division for this area headquartered in Albemarle. It is symbolic of the whole problem of favoring smaller towns due to politics, rather than rationalization of need. Cities are used as funding agents for a rural network of roads, whereas if they would spend the money in the cities, there would result in a larger overall pool, since the investments in the cities are much more likely to reap economic rewards.

[Raintree21]

It definitely seems to be an issue this go round cause Beverly Perdue made that one of her platforms at the DOT conference as well.

[ChiefJoJo]

FYI, there's a workshop for the next Independence Blvd leg at being held at Eastland Mall on Feb 12. A link to the proposed design/layout is here (scroll down).

Citizens Informational Workshop

Tuesday, February 12

Eastland Mall Activity Room

5:00 PM - 8:00 PM

[orulz]

The design of those interchanges are pretty much the same as what was proposed in October 2005 during a study conducted for the southeast corridor transit line.

Check it out here.

From the drawing, it sort of seems like they may be keeping all three options open (LRT, BRT, BRT/HOV with bypass.)

[atlrvr]

Hmmmm....interesting.....I don't mind the Idelwild/Conference configurations, but the Sharon Amity interchange seems downright dreadful, especially from a land-use perspective.

[tozmervo]

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "Proposed Control Of Access," which they've marked at all of the curb cuts. Are they eliminating those curb cuts? What exactly is proposed at those points?

[ChiefJoJo]

The design of those interchanges are pretty much the same as what was proposed in October 2005 during a study conducted for the southeast corridor transit line.

Check it out here.

From the drawing, it sort of seems like they may be keeping all three options open (LRT, BRT, BRT/HOV with bypass.)

CATS was the lead on this project during the corridor study and basically handed it over to NCDOT after the SE corridor transit technology decision was delayed 5+ years by the MTC. DOT will now build the roadway, essentially extending the same cross section at Albemarle Rd further out to Idlewild, and preserving the option of BRT+HOV3+, BRT only, or LRT in the transitway. IIRC, CATS will chip in for some of the transit-related improvements.

Hmmmm....interesting.....I don't mind the Idelwild/Conference configurations, but the Sharon Amity interchange seems downright dreadful, especially from a land-use perspective.

Certainly, this could change, but IIRC, the two large interchange loops at Sharon Amity & Idlewild were planned to be park and ride lots. You can clearly see the vehicle access from Holbrook Dr (SA) and the ramp at Idlewild into those spaces.

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "Proposed Control Of Access," which they've marked at all of the curb cuts. Are they eliminating those curb cuts? What exactly is proposed at those points?

It will be partially controlled access, which basically means an expressway with some right turns, just like the section just west Albemerle Rd... businesses will have right-in-right-out access only, and left turns are not permitted except at major junctions. By law, the state must provide access to all properties, or it must buy them out completely (properties shaded green).

[Spartan]

the Sharon Amity interchange seems downright dreadful, especially from a land-use perspective.

You mean worse than the abandoned/derelict shopping centers? Seems like it might be a pretty even trade off to me.

[Raintree21]

A public hearing was held tonight by NCDOT on local projects with pne of the goals being public comment on delays on completing 485. Apparently no one showed up.

[atlrvr]

I guess I meant how poorly it disrupts the street connectivity....both for pedestrians trying to cross Independence, and locals who will now be living on cul-de-sacs.....this whole highway project is creating further divide between the communities, and my guess is the communities on the north side are going to suffer further socio-economic decline.

[nyxmike]

I am suprised nobody has mention this, but it looks like the lights on I-277, I-77, and I-85 will finally get fixed. If I remember correctly, the work should start in March. The city has to pay for the lights by using money designated for new roads since the state wouldn't pay to fix them.

Edited January 25, 2008 by nyxmike

[ChiefJoJo]

I am suprised nobody has mention this, but it looks like the lights on I-277, I-77, and I-85 will finally get fixed. If I remember correctly, the work should start in March. The city has to pay for the lights by using money designated for new roads since the state wouldn't pay to fix them.

Not quite. The MPO had to vote to appropriate the state funds as a TIP project. Essentially the MPO has to agree with the state on each project to get it funded. It's still state money. The difficult part to swallow is that it comes out of the same pool of funds designated for local capital projects (new roads, widenings, etc), not maintenance (potholes, guardrails, etc)... although one can argue where to draw the line on where maintenance ends and capital begins.

[Miesian Corners]

With the way those park and ride lots are done in those photos, does that mean the two large table-like areas at the Eastway/Independence interchange are destined for the same thing? When I asked the engineers for the project about them, I was told they were just places to put dirt. Anybody know the answer?