Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[GeauxCLT]

6 hours ago, RaleighHeelsfan said:

If you build tolls, make everyone pay...not just some!

This is the definition of socialism, right?

It is unfortunate that roads have historically appeared "free" when in actuality taxes pay for the road. Asking the people that actually use the road to pay for it doesn't sound so bad to me. It just needs to be implemented consistently going forward. This should include mass transit. 

[Skyybutter]

I live in SW Concord about a mile from Harrisburg and the 2 or 3 times I might go to the LKN are in a year I dont use 77. I use Poplar Tent up to 73 and to Exit 25. I don't know anything about the commute at all. What I do know is people love living there and more and more are. It's probably time for more Birkdale type development even if it's not near transit trains. Maybe Charlotte could offer more express trains during the commute times. I  think 4 or even 5 lanes each way is a no brainer and about 20 years too late. I think they should all be free and that the NCDOT should accept that it is their responsibility to build them regardless of the cost. I cringe when I think of how long it's going to be before the people between Charlotte and Mooresville Will have to wait for this to happen. If the tolls are voted down. I hope for the best for the area.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

I know it's happening but it is very gradual especially in many areas of the south where there really is no urban core to move to.

Which is why Southend got so crappy so quickly. Our lack of an urban core conflicted with the huge demand for urban living. Developers and financiers responded by slapping together some criminally uninspired multifamily.

[15895]

I prefer Lake Norman because it's a lot more Urban than most all of Charlotte. All the sidewalks, the housing developments, the shopping centers. It's 1000x more walkable than almost any part of Charlotte outside of Uptown & SouthEnd. I mean.... Even look at the overpass on Catawba in Cornelius... It's the most pedestrian friendly bridge design I've see . I've seen multiple bikers and pedestrians walking leisurely across. You could walk all over Cornelius with plenty of sidewalks & even to Birkdale. I could walk from downtown Davidson, through downtown Cornelius, go over 77, walk to the lake, walk to Birkdale village all on sidewalks to multiple destinations. And if you ever get bored of the same route, the neighborhoods all have sidewalks with parallel parking and multiple entrances and exits so they're nice to walk around. And in Huntersville, we're supposed to get a pedestrian underpass. For me.... It's just too much to give up to live in any other area excluding uptown and directly near uptown. Especially the fairly urban design standards we have. If Charlotte were more pedestrian friendly or Urban, I might be convinced to leave Lake Norman. Light Rail is not going to magically poof pedestrian infrastructure of the crap already built in places like University, North Lake, Ballantyne, etc

[southslider]

Ned Curran is now saying in the Observer that 77 Express Lanes will benefit transit. But unless the project is redesigned, that's not entirely true.

It is true that buses will travel the new express lanes, but they already travel the HOV lanes.  The design flaw then is where buses need to get in and out of the lanes, specifically in Lake Norman and Uptown.

In Uptown, I-85 will be sealed off from the new lanes, when today, buses can use the HOV lane between I-85 and Uptown. The new lanes will also connect directly to Brookshire, which has less direct access to employment than staying on I-77 or the Belk leg of I-277.

But even worse than Uptown is the missed opportunity in Lake Norman.  By not adding any free lanes, buses will still need to merge in/out of the most congested section to access Exits 23 and 25.  To overcome this constraint, CRTPO could have approved new direct ramps to/from Stumptown Rd, which is strategically between Exits 23 and 25. But alas, CRTPO let the City and each Town have final say. And Huntersville eyeing development, instead of transit, picked Hambright Rd.

Hopefully, Mayor Roberts and/or a Counci majority can demand key changes to the contract, including 1) direct ramps to/from I-85, 2) direct ramps to/from Stumptown Rd, and 3) a third free lane to Exit 23 at a minimum, or Exit 28 at a maximum, all while still building new toll lanes.

Edited January 8, 2016 by southslider

[allthingsplanes]

^ I am not sure of all of the facts, but I disagree with your assessment.  While the lack of connection from I-85 into the new express lanes will be a loss, to me that HOV lane doesn't tend to make that much difference.  And buses coming from I-85 who are planning to take 277 into Uptown currently have to change across 4-5 lanes of traffic now, so it's not like they can just ride easily in the HOV lane (which ends anyway).

As for the Lake Norman area, there are several things I think you're wrong about.  The worst part of the congestion is between exits 19 and 23.  As I see it, when the Gilead stop is open the buses will either exit at Hambright and go up 21 to the Park and Ride or will exit directly at Gilead, depending on traffic .  They don't currently then get back on 77 to go to exit 25 - they go along back roads.  Also, I've always found that, except on the worst days, the traffic flow between 23 and 25 isn't bad.  

Just my thoughts...

[Spartan]

3 hours ago, southslider said:

Ned Curran is now saying in the Observer that 77 Express Lanes will benefit transit. But unless the project is redesigned, that's not entirely true.

It is true that buses will travel the new express lanes, but they already travel the HOV lanes.  The design flaw then is where buses need to get in and out of the lanes, specifically in Lake Norman and Uptown.

In Uptown, I-85 will be sealed off from the new lanes, when today, buses can use the HOV lane between I-85 and Uptown. The new lanes will also connect directly to Brookshire, which has less direct access to employment than staying on I-77 or the Belk leg of I-277.

But even worse than Uptown is the missed opportunity in Lake Norman.  By not adding any free lanes, buses will still need to merge in/out of the most congested section to access Exits 23 and 25.  To overcome this constraint, CRTPO could have approved new direct ramps to/from Stumptown Rd, which is strategically between Exits 23 and 25. But alas, CRTPO let the City and each Town have final say. And Huntersville eyeing development, instead of transit, picked Hambright Rd.

Hopefully, Mayor Roberts and/or a Counci majority can demand key changes to the contract, including 1) direct ramps to/from I-85, 2) direct ramps to/from Stumptown Rd, and 3) a third free lane to Exit 23 at a minimum, or Exit 28 at a maximum, all while still building new toll lanes.

Wouldn't the variable pricing structure to regulate volume/speed along with the exclusive on/off ramps help guarantee travel times?

[Windsurfer]

I've never understood how the variable pricing will help. When I head home, the last thing I want to do is figure out what the rates are if I I use the toll lanes. All I'm thinking about is not hitting the car ahead of me, or having the trailer behind me run over me.

[dcharlotte]

2 hours ago, allthingsplanes said:

^ I am not sure of all of the facts, but I disagree with your assessment.  While the lack of connection from I-85 into the new express lanes will be a loss, to me that HOV lane doesn't tend to make that much difference.  And buses coming from I-85 who are planning to take 277 into Uptown currently have to change across 4-5 lanes of traffic now, so it's not like they can just ride easily in the HOV lane (which ends anyway).

The only thing I'll note here is that the new HOT lanes will have their own exit into Uptown on I-277, which may be a faster alternate to get a bus to roll down College Street to drop off passengers.

I would also echo the issues of the buses having to use the same limited in and our lanes for general traffic. A few additional bridges that connect roads that are not currently interchanges would significantly help the corridor and provide faster transportation for buses and those who travel by bus. 

[southslider]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Wouldn't the variable pricing structure to regulate volume/speed along with the exclusive on/off ramps help guarantee travel times?

The only exclusive ramps are at Brookshire, Lakeview, Hambright, and the Exit 28 transition from two to one toll lanes.  All other places, the slip lanes require merging to/from the free lanes, which are very often not moving between Exits 23 and 25. That's why Hambright Rd (between 485 and Gilead) doesn't help as much as Stumptown Rd would as an exclusive access point.

Edited January 8, 2016 by southslider

[dubone]

I see your point about not being as ideal for transit as it could be with more direct access points, but it is definitely an improvement over the current state for transit, as all of the buses to north Meck must join the congested roadway at the same point.  At least they could workaround the routes with the planned exits, but there is no working around the current choke point.   

 

 

[Spartan]

Last night Charlotte voted 7-4 in favor of the I-77 project. I think its a pragmatic move on their part. The MPO still has to vote on it later this month, and I'm betting that the project will stay. Essentially, the state has said that a vote to reject the I-77 project means a rejection of the 'managed lanes' concept and that other projects - namely Independence and 485 - would be cancelled. I think the towns in the SE metro area want to see Independence improved and enough will support Charlotte to keep the I-77 project.

[nyxmike]

I saw on the news that they were going to add more direct access points to address complaints, but I haven't seen an article in writing. 

I don't think the tolls would be such a big issue if NCDOT would also add a general purpose lane. It's really crazy that they cannot find money to add one general purpose from 485 to exit 28... that way it's 3 general purpose lanes and two managed lanes in each direction through the majority of north Mecklenburg. Even though this project will continue to move forward, I have a feeling opponents are going to continue to push for this.

[dubone]

it would double the cost or more because then it won't be within the right of way, and would need more bridge replacements and need to support trucks.  the whole point i that there is declining gas tax revenue nationally and statewide and NC is a donor state and Charlotte is a donor region in the state.

The 2 new lanes with varable tolls will be ample capacity for a while, plus less of a moral hazard of generating new inefficient use of the lanes.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

2 minutes ago, dubone said:

it would double the cost or more because then it won't be within the right of way, and would need more bridge replacements and need to support trucks.  the whole point i that there is declining gas tax revenue nationally and statewide and NC is a donor state and Charlotte is a donor region in the state.

The 2 new lanes with varable tolls will be ample capacity for a while, plus less of a moral hazard of generating new inefficient use of the lanes.

We shouldn't build things 'for a while.'

We should build for the future-you know, like we once did with UNC.

Of course, the GOP finds such thinking anathema.

[southslider]

9 hours ago, nyxmike said:

I saw on the news that they were going to add more direct access points to address complaints, but I haven't seen an article in writing.

The project map has been updated on i77express.com 

Still, the new access points require merging in/out of the regularly congested section between Exits 23 and 28. And the only exclusive access points outside of Uptown (Lakeview and Hambright) are still both south of Exit 23.

I-77 should be built and maintained by NCDOT like all other tolled facilities in the region.  And it should include 3 general purpose lanes like all other tolled segments planned for the region.

But worst of all, both Lake motorists and CATS customers will continue to be stuck trying to merge in/out the new lanes between Exits 23 and 25.  Likewise, University and Concord commuters will continue to be stuck trying to access I-77 from I-85.

Again, congestion pricing makes sense, just not full privatization or a design that turns away tons of customers, even transit.

[dcharlotte]

As a result of having a private company build the toll lanes this conversation cannot be had in the future in Charlotte:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2016/01/26/tap-miami-dade-expressway-authority-funds-rail/

"State Sen. Anitere Flores has backed a plan to strip 25% of Miami-Dade Expressway Authority revenues and some funds from auto tag renewals and redirect it all to public transportation. "

[15895]

24 minutes ago, dcharlotte said:

As a result of having a private company build the toll lanes this conversation cannot be had in the future in Charlotte:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2016/01/26/tap-miami-dade-expressway-authority-funds-rail/

"State Sen. Anitere Flores has backed a plan to strip 25% of Miami-Dade Expressway Authority revenues and some funds from auto tag renewals and redirect it all to public transportation. "

 

The 485 & the Independence bypass will be state tolls, right?

[southslider]

^And a poorly missed opportunity, given that the two rail corridors (Red Line and Silver Line) strong on political support but weak on funding, run directly parallel  to the region's only two radial express-lane corridors (77 North and 74 East) with near-future funding.

[tozmervo]

It sounds like the Garden Parkway is one step closer to dead. http://www.catawbariverkeeper.org/News/federal-government-drops-its-defense-of-garden-parkway

[HopHead]

So I was driving home last night from a show at the Music Factory... I've always in the past noticed how there are lots of highway lights that are out on 277 and 77. However, last night seemed even worse than normal. It's at the point where you can very easily miss your exit if you aren't familiar with our interstates or aren't paying attention very closely. Especially when getting on 277 from Church and the 77S exit from 277. Has this recently gotten worse? And why the heck hasn't NCDOT fixed that?

[kermit]

7 minutes ago, HopHead said:

So I was driving home last night from a show at the Music Factory... I've always in the past noticed how there are lots of highway lights that are out on 277 and 77. However, last night seemed even worse than normal. It's at the point where you can very easily miss your exit if you aren't familiar with our interstates or aren't paying attention very closely. Especially when getting on 277 from Church and the 77S exit from 277. Has this recently gotten worse? And why the heck hasn't NCDOT fixed that?

Its a mystery since the scrap price of copper is down -- thefts should also be down. Clearly NCDOT can't keep up with advances in the local [copper theft] tech scene.

 

[AuLukey]

I mean, I know upfront costs are much greater, but just switch to Solar LED and be done with it.  Takes load off the grid, takes costs off the table after-the-fact (think bonds,) eliminates theft, and lasts at least 50x longer.  Plus, long-term it is MUCH more eco friendly.  You have to have something like fifteen straight days without direct sunlight before they stop lighting the street below.  I'm wondering what kind of shift in politics would have to take place in order for these to be more commonplace in urban areas.

[AP3]

I think I read this roughly a year ago, but NCDOT announced that they were upgrading the lighting at key interchanges and along highways in Charlotte.  Sounds like it should be starting soon...  

[urbanlover568]

The end to the toll lane projects?

 

http://www.wcnc.com/traffic/mccrory-orders-review-of-i-77-toll-lane-project/65066115