Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[kermit]

7 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I'll take objective data over subjective experience.

me too, but that is no reason to suggest direct observation has no value.

No one ever said the city was using the data that Toz cited while he was answering your question so I don't really think its fair to say that the city or anyone else here is "playing games with data".

Edited August 16, 2017 by kermit

[Scribe]

4 minutes ago, kermit said:

me too, but that is no reason to dismiss direct observation entirely.

No one ever said the city was using the data that Toz cited while he was answering your question so I don't really think its fair to say that the city or anyone else here is "playing games with data".

Individual observations are one thing - but they are definitely not enough to drive policy, and they should not be.

I never accused the City or State for that matter, when I said "creative torture of data" I was referring to the authors of the report - whoever they are.

A wild guess would be (this is just my wild guess) - the report is used by consultants to present to city/state govt's and show them how bad everything is, and get money for whatever their solution to the problem is.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Scribe

[kermit]

1 minute ago, Scribe said:

A wild guess would be (this is just my wild guess) - the report is used by consultants to get money out of city/state govt's to show them how bad everything is, and get money for whatever their solution to the problem is.

so conducting analysis to reduce pedestrian, biker and driver deaths is a scam?

[Scribe]

Just now, kermit said:

so conducting analysis to reduce pedestrian, biker and driver deaths is a scam?

LOL, I guess people want to read what they want to read.

I am calling out the intentional misuse of data (when you have data for 10 years but only show 2 in your report).

And if that is how you use the data, then yes, I am going to be weary of your proposals for a "solution".

Oh, look at that, the report was presented by "Richard Retting & Sam Schwartz - Transportation Consultants" to the Governors Highway Safety Association

Now, consultants are great, I am one of them! 

But to do what they did in the report is a sign of corrupt thought process.

[kermit]

Just now, Scribe said:

LOL, I guess people want to read what they want to read.

I am calling out the intentional misuse of data (when you have data for 10 years but only show 2 in your report).

And if that is how you use the data, then yes, I am going to be weary of your proposals for a "solution".

dude, its not my data. I didn't link to the data, I have not looked at the report, I don't make policy.

I only posted because you appeared to make a connection between the report that was cited and the Vision Zero program -- and I wanted to be clear that the connection is inappropriate (mea culpa if that was not your intent). I am not an insider on the city's nascent  Vision Zero process but I know enough to know that is not the data that they are starting their process with (I believe they are using actual fatality data for streets within the city).

[Scribe]

5 minutes ago, kermit said:

dude, its not my data. I didn't link to the data, I have not looked at the report, I don't make policy.

I only posted because you appeared to make a connection between the report that was cited and the Vision Zero program -- and I wanted to be clear that the connection is inappropriate (mea culpa if that was not your intent). I am not an insider on the city's nascent  Vision Zero process but I know enough to know that is not the data that they are starting their process with (I believe they are using actual fatality data for streets within the city).

Never said it was your data. Nor did I ever try to tie it to Vision Zero.
All I did, was read the data, and give my analysis of that data. But, pointing out the flaws in the data got you all worked up for some reason.

 

As for our great city and Vision Zero:
I would love to have a peek at the data they are using. It is after all "public".

Edited August 16, 2017 by Scribe

[kermit]

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

mea culpa

 

[Spartan]

On 8/16/2017 at 10:00 AM, kermit said:

I have not heard any publicity about it (may have missed it) but data crunching efforts are underway at the city to initiate a Vision Zero program.

If anybody needs Vision Zero badly its us

The City included a Vision Zero policy as a part of its "Charlotte WALKS" pedestrian plan a few months ago. It wasn't widely publicized, but IMO was one of the more significant parts of the plan in terms of potential impact. The specific language is to "implement a Vision Zero strategy," which just means they will figure out the best way to implement it. Based on my sources, it's something that the City and CDOT take seriously, and they are working to develop a strategy to implement. It's going to be interesting to see how it happens, because I'm willing to bet parts of it will be somewhat controversial - especially when it comes to finding ways to reduce traffic speeds across the board. People love to talk about how we need to make it safer for bikes and pedestrians here, but they also don't understand that traffic speed is the largest culprit in pedestrian fatalities.

It's worth noting that one of the major challenges is actually CMPD. They currently do not do proactive traffic enforcement whatsoever in the City. Not to say you can't get a ticket, but they don't have a team dedicated to doing that like they used to before the previous police chief.

 

[elrodvt]

3 hours ago, Spartan said:

It's worth noting that one of the major challenges is actually CMPD. They currently do not do proactive traffic enforcement whatsoever in the City. Not to say you can't get a ticket, but they don't have a team dedicated to doing that like they used to before the previous police chief.

 

It's incredible to me how poor enforcement is. Downtown, where the most pedestrians are I assume, has 0 enforcement. I've lived here 4 years without seeing a car pulled over. I've rarely walked down Tryon without seeing someone run a red light or block the box.

[Nick2]

Bike cops would work well in uptown and possibly even south end.

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

Bike cops would work well in uptown and possibly even south end.

and they were regularly used from the time of the DNC until, I am not sure when. I have not seen them in a while.

I thought they were pretty effective in both areas. However there was the time that one told me not to ride my bike through the unused side of the CTC LRT station -- while he was on his bike.

Edited August 17, 2017 by kermit

[elrodvt]

^I see them occasionally but have never seen any traffic control or enforcement. I think they're just random patrols.

I like the idea of red light and speed cameras in the downtown area myself.

[pathb]

You can add my voice to those in support of speed cameras and red light cameras.  Automated enforcement is the only method that I think stands a chance of achieving the goals of better behavior by drivers.  Ultimately, I'd love to see the money generated from these programs fund multi-modal improvements like transit, bicycling, and pedestrian infrastructure, but I hav ea feeling the General Assembly wouldn't allow that to happen.

Of note, a NACTO statement on a study released by the National Transportation Safety Board confessing that speed plays far too large a role in the 40,000 annual auto fatalities in the US, and that we have done far too little to address the issue (links below): 

Quote

Cities across the U.S. lauded a report released today by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which concluded that excessive speed is one of the most significant causes of both crashes and fatalities on U.S. roadways. The report found that too little focus and attention has been paid to speed as a national traffic safety issue, given its outsize impact on the safety of city streets: over 10,000 people killed in speed-related collisions each year, on par with alcohol-related crashes.

The NTSB report recommends a sweeping overhaul of how speed is managed on U.S. streets, from the way speed limits are set, to how enforcement is carried out. 

NACTO - Federal Study Concludes U.S. Must Change Policies to Curb Epidemic of Deaths Caused by Excessive Motorist Speed

NTSB - Reducing Speeding-Related Crashes Involving Passenger Vehicles

Edited August 18, 2017 by pathb

[Spartan]

19 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Bike cops would work well in uptown and possibly even south end.

They have bike patrols in lots of neighborhoods, including uptown. I see them along with foot patrols in uptown all the time.

[Nick2]

@Spartan Do they enforce traffic laws often?

[Spartan]

@Nick2 Not that I'm aware of, though there are occasionally stings for people who violate crosswalk laws (peds and drivers). 

[KJHburg]

NC toll transponders are leading the country in compatibility now and are cheaper. Unfortunately there will lots of places soon to use them in the Charlotte area 77 north and Monroe Bypass. https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/08/22/new-turnpike-technology-dropping-prices-of-nc.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=scroll&ed=2017-08-22&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1503430212&j=78732221

[KJHburg]

First trip all the way to Matthews on Indpendence for I avoid it like the plague. I did like the fact I did not see a traffic light until Harris Blvd which is really nice. The nicest things along this route are the car dealers with the Porsche being the nicest.   PS Matthews needs another Chick-fil-A or two. 

[southslider]

^Sharon Forest will be new light before Harris.

[KJHburg]

^^ I did see some construction around the old CompUSA store in the median there. I will have to look into the plans for whats next on Independence south of Conference Drive. 

[videtur quam contuor]

I am curious as whether this board has consensus about I-77 toll lanes. Will the state stick to the contract and open the toll lanes as designed? Not saying that they may revert to free at some later period, just as to the opening will be as toll. What do you think. (Not putting a formal poll on this post)

[tozmervo]

4 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

I am curious as whether this board has consensus about I-77 toll lanes. Will the state stick to the contract and open the toll lanes as designed? Not saying that they may revert to free at some later period, just as to the opening will be as toll. What do you think. (Not putting a formal poll on this post)

I think they will always be toll lanes, but with Cintra's track record I think it's likely the state may end up controlling them at some point.

[KJHburg]

^^^Yes I believe also always will be toll maybe not Cintra involved but will be toll. They are going to do toll lanes on I-485 south next from 77 to 74. This is the future unfortunately for NC remember 3/4 of I-540 loop around Raleigh is or will be toll. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by KJHburg

[jednc]

I think we will lose one of the toll lanes and gain a free lane. Outside chance of no tolls at all. I do not think things stay as is.

[kermit]

IMO tolls are here to stay. If NCDOT abandons the I77 tolls they will have politically screwed themselves out of tolls on Independence and 485 (and anywhere else in the state). They have no other financial options since a gas tax increase is a non-starter in the current regime. Having said that, I would not be at all surprised if the cintra subsidiary goes bankrupt -- but creditors will still need to collect the revenue.

Edited August 27, 2017 by kermit