Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[AuLukey]

wait, they don't have the money? I coulda swore they had a surplus last year. I'm all for suing the state for rights to public safety funds. Rather than the counties having equal representation, shouldn't the voting process in state congress be based off of population, but then you get in the debate of House vs Senate and the Electoral college vs. Popular vote, so I guess this defunct way of thinking in our government (since it was founded) has always just been a plea for help from the minority.

[dubone]

The surplus was from one-time events.

Either way, there are still billions in the budget that can be shifted around based on priorities. I'm fine with the 'double taxation' if there was some honesty in the formula, and priorities weren't just shifted based on a pork process. For example, this state has state control of all the roads, which leads to high state tax total, but an overall average or low grand total of state plus local transportation taxes/spending. So it seems to me that if they were honest that the state tax was to redistribute wealth in the state, and then granted the wealthier localities to fund their own transportation programs to meet their growth, then that is fine. At least it is honest.

Instead, what we have is dishonesty and a general lack of fairness.

[Neo]

I read today where Orlando is getting a $1 million grant from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to put up 124 solar lights for a part of the city that was annexed back in 2001. They're putting them up at the requests of citizens. Any chance of getting a grant like this here? Apparently the biggest concern with Orlando doing this is for lighting to become independent should a hurricane kill the electricity.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/bro...la-news-broward

[Miesian Corners]

^Sounds like a great idea, Neo. Many islands in the South Pacific have had solar powered streetlights for years now for the very reason you mention.

I'm actually sort of glad now that they weren't repaired earlier. As I understand it, part of the problem with I-77 and I-277 was that many times the wiring was ripped out of the base by thieves who would then sell it as scrap copper. Now there'll be no copper to steal at the base of the fixture. Further, we are now ultimately doing something that will not only benefit drivers, but will also act somewhat responsibly in the realm of sustainability.

Now, about the lights that are only 10 years old on Independence Blvd that have been knocked down by traffic accidents--the state cannot use the same story on those that it did on Brookshire. There are (at last count on my daily drive), eight light poles that are missing (four of which have been lying in the grass for over a year).

Edited February 7, 2007 by Miesian Corners

[charlotte_uncc]

How old are the lights on I-85? Those seem to go out quite often and seem to take quite a while to repair.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

When is I-77 going to be widened in Huntersville-Cornelius-Mooresville? It's amazing that it's only two lanes each way!

[moving uptown]

When is I-77 going to be widened in Huntersville-Cornelius-Mooresville? It's amazing that it's only two lanes each way!

2020 i think

[monsoon]

There is no funding set aside for any widening above I-485 for the forseeable future.

[e2ksj3]

2020 i think

Wow, that's insane! especially with all the growth in the Lake Norman area. Do you think this could change and funding could be allocated much sooner?

[NcSc74]

Been down this road before...Had 485 not been built would there be so much angst about funding. Had Raleigh not started 540 would there be more money for lights. If 295 in Fayetteville not been proposed would 77 be a continuous 6-8 lanes. IF Greensboro didn't have the interstate web rivaling the Metroplex would there be a an actual alternative to Raleigh or even Wlmington. IMO a lot of this is not pork but poor planning by the DOT and the powers that be who have fell in love with loops and beltways. I know a lot of UPers don't like beltways because the do what...promote what most of us see as further suburbanizing NC. I have looked at a state map of VA and there are just as many 4-lane controlled access roads as NC. I have no problem with trying to make every region of NC viable for commerce. Connectivity is one factor when any industry looks to for relocation or startup. Every(honest) working person in the state pays taxes so the its who is at the top has to bare that burden of where the money goes...if not then everybody feels like they are being robbed.

[flith]

Been down this road before...Had 485 not been built would there be so much angst about funding. Had Raleigh not started 540 would there be more money for lights. If 295 in Fayetteville not been proposed would 77 be a continuous 6-8 lanes. IF Greensboro didn't have the interstate web rivaling the Metroplex would there be a an actual alternative to Raleigh or even Wlmington. IMO a lot of this is not pork but poor planning by the DOT and the powers that be who have fell in love with loops and beltways. I know a lot of UPers don't like beltways because the do what...promote what most of us see as further suburbanizing NC. I have looked at a state map of VA and there are just as many 4-lane controlled access roads as NC. I have no problem with trying to make every region of NC viable for commerce. Connectivity is one factor when any industry looks to for relocation or startup. Every(honest) working person in the state pays taxes so the its who is at the top has to bare that burden of where the money goes...if not then everybody feels like they are being robbed.

I thought NC has a separate dedicated fund for loop construction. I'm not sure how it works though, in relation to NCDOT budget and other projects.

Edited February 15, 2007 by flith

[ChiefJoJo]

I thought NC has a separate dedicated fund for loop construction. I'm not sure how it works though, in relation to NCDOT budget and other projects.

For your answer, there is a thorough ppt presentation linked in this post.

[nyxmike]

Looks like the NC Turnpike Authority is considering putting a toll on I-85 at the Yadkin River Bridge in order to pay for its expansion.

http://www.wbtv.com/home/5965776.html

[dubone]

While I'm glad that widening 85 in this stretch is back on the table, it is just ridiculous that is now having to be funded by tolls, when it was about to be funded by the local division with a design-build project before NCDOT pulled back the money to go back to the eastern divisions!

It is a perfect symbol of the waste of NC's formula. A major project serving a significant percentage of NC travelers can't get funds, and now must fund itself, while wasteful projects in the east get money bricks on silver platters.

[A2]

While I'm glad that widening 85 in this stretch is back on the table, it is just ridiculous that is now having to be funded by tolls, when it was about to be funded by the local division with a design-build project before NCDOT pulled back the money to go back to the eastern divisions!

It is a perfect symbol of the waste of NC's formula. A major project serving a significant percentage of NC travelers can't get funds, and now must fund itself, while wasteful projects in the east get money bricks on silver platters.

Tell me about it!

A2

[moving uptown]

Tell me about it!

A2

it would seem that a toll would slow the road down more than keeping the road at 2 lanes in each direction - this is truly a ludicious solution

[nyxmike]

it would seem that a toll would slow the road down more than keeping the road at 2 lanes in each direction - this is truly a ludicious solution

Agreed, and it's not really a bridge either (or atleast a bridge you think of to pay a toll for). NCDOT really needs to change their funding formula. The current formula is outdated.

[monsoon]

^It's not the NCDOT. It's the NC General Assembly that decides where the money goes.

[voyager12]

Another depressing but expected update regarding the much ballyhooed Transportation Action Plan (TAP) in today's O. Like everything else in Charlotte the presentation was full of promises and great PR but developers are completely ignoring reccomendations to build near transit corridors and no real progress has been made at all. Of course the city's response is to just throw up their arms and surrender. Good lord, why does the city even bother having a planning dept at all? The developers run the whole town and never have to answer for anything. What's the point of having a review when there is no enforcement?

[A2]

The developers run the whole town and never have to answer for anything.

Bingo!

A2

[dubone]

I wonder if that study was just a little premature. Think of how many major projects are going to come online next year and the year after along the rail line and downtown.

However, it is just a crying shame that people moving here are still buying standard suburban sprawl keeping those numbers so far tipped to that side! No wonder we can't afford to keep our roadway system up to date.

[Otto]

While I'm glad that widening 85 in this stretch is back on the table, it is just ridiculous that is now having to be funded by tolls, when it was about to be funded by the local division with a design-build project before NCDOT pulled back the money to go back to the eastern divisions!

It is a perfect symbol of the waste of NC's formula. A major project serving a significant percentage of NC travelers can't get funds, and now must fund itself, while wasteful projects in the east get money bricks on silver platters.

I notice there is a lot of reference to highway projects getting funded back east. Mayor Meeker of Raleigh also tends to reference highway $$$s going east as well.

Some quick facts:

(1) If all of the counties of NC east of I-95 was a state, it would be the poorest in the nation.

(2) I-95 between Wilson, Johnston and Harnett counties has a ridiculously high accident rate compared to other rural interstates.

(3) North Carolina

[dubone]

Let me start by saying thanks for joining us, even with your unpopular opinion .

Secondly, I'll say that I strongly support the intrastate program, designed to create a statewide network of multilane expressways or freeways. I support basic infrastructure to the rural counties, especially to the ports. If you note my support in various threads, you'll note that I support an interstate between Asheville, Charlotte, and Wilmington, which would improve access to the port. I support taking I-74 to Wilmington rather than wastefully through the swamp as a redundant interstate (actually slower than I-73) to Myrtle.

However, I don't agree that road money should be spent as charity in poor counties. A service level of F is actually not the same in a rural county as an urban county. Traffic delays in high income areas have a higher economic impact due to delay because those people are generating more economically with their 'hours', so lost hours take that productivity away from the economy of the whole state. Also, traffic delays in high population areas have a higher economic impact due to the fact that more people are delayed. It may be so that from the perspective of an individual driver, a low level of service is equal, but in aggregate, it has much more impact on a city.

You are pointing to GOOD projects in the east. However, there are very many wasteful projects in the east of the state. There is significant spending planned to support Global Transpark, which has been a roaring failure. Redundant freeways are planned all over the place around there under the intent of increasing jobs and wealth. However, I completely disapprove of the underlying tenet of increasing the population and jobs in areas prone to hurricane disaster and flooding. Why can't the eastern part of the state remain focused on agriculture? Are we repeating the mistakes of the Mississippi delta by trying to encourage this kind of development? If they are poor and can't survive there, then move to a city! That has been the basic approach for centuries. There is a reason that the vast wealth and immigration to the eastern towns and cities in the 18th and 19th century eventually moved west, and the original Virginia colony decided to move up to the Chesapeake instead of the Pamlico.

Lastly, when the resources are pooled into the resources of the entire state, you have to weigh one area over another. Is 485 more important than the Greenville bypass? Yes. Because Charlotte's outerbelt will serve more of the state's residents, and Charlotte provides significantly more to the state coffers than Greenville. You have to invest primarily in the places that bring that money in, or else your investments will not be maximized.

Roadway infrastructure is both an investment and a basic right. I say provide everyone with the basics, and then invest most in the places that will provide the largest return for the state, the cities.

[JerseyBoy]

Well there is a proposal to add tolls to 95 to widen it to 4 lanes each way, I'd rather see that then another strip of fresh asphalt going through the swamps.

[NcSc74]

Let me start by saying thanks for joining us, even with your unpopular opinion .

Secondly, I'll say that I strongly support the intrastate program, designed to create a statewide network of multilane expressways or freeways. I support basic infrastructure to the rural counties, especially to the ports. If you note my support in various threads, you'll note that I support an interstate between Asheville, Charlotte, and Wilmington, which would improve access to the port. I support taking I-74 to Wilmington rather than wastefully through the swamp as a redundant interstate (actually slower than I-73) to Myrtle.

However, I don't agree that road money should be spent as charity in poor counties. A service level of F is actually not the same in a rural county as an urban county. Traffic delays in high income areas have a higher economic impact due to delay because those people are generating more economically with their 'hours', so lost hours take that productivity away from the economy of the whole state. Also, traffic delays in high population areas have a higher economic impact due to the fact that more people are delayed. It may be so that from the perspective of an individual driver, a low level of service is equal, but in aggregate, it has much more impact on a city.

You are pointing to GOOD projects in the east. However, there are very many wasteful projects in the east of the state. There is significant spending planned to support Global Transpark, which has been a roaring failure. Redundant freeways are planned all over the place around there under the intent of increasing jobs and wealth. However, I completely disapprove of the underlying tenet of increasing the population and jobs in areas prone to hurricane disaster and flooding. Why can't the eastern part of the state remain focused on agriculture? Are we repeating the mistakes of the Mississippi delta by trying to encourage this kind of development? If they are poor and can't survive there, then move to a city! That has been the basic approach for centuries. There is a reason that the vast wealth and immigration to the eastern towns and cities in the 18th and 19th century eventually moved west, and the original Virginia colony decided to move up to the Chesapeake instead of the Pamlico.

Lastly, when the resources are pooled into the resources of the entire state, you have to weigh one area over another. Is 485 more important than the Greenville bypass? Yes. Because Charlotte's outerbelt will serve more of the state's residents, and Charlotte provides significantly more to the state coffers than Greenville. You have to invest primarily in the places that bring that money in, or else your investments will not be maximized.

Roadway infrastructure is both an investment and a basic right. I say provide everyone with the basics, and then invest most in the places that will provide the largest return for the state, the cities.

So the taxpayers back east should not see a return on their investments ever. Nothing but the basics does not cost a lot of money. So where does the rest go. Is it just to finish these Uber important projects. Or would it be an exxagerated scale all the time. We all know most metro areas can come with 100's of projects that can tie that money up forever. In both cases better planning needs to be highlighted instead of a blank check and build....