Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[QClifer]

Does anybody know if they are rebuilding/redesigning the 321/85 interchange?   I drove through there this weekend from clt and headed to the mountains on 321 and noticed before you cross over 321 on 85 on the right they cleared a large area of trees.  Appears it would be large enough to have vehicles come off 85 down a ramp and go directly N on 321 with no stoplight which would also take away a stoplight for vehicles looking to get on to 85 from 321.   The interchange is a disaster on the weekends. 

[tozmervo]

27 minutes ago, QClifer said:

Does anybody know if they are rebuilding/redesigning the 321/85 interchange?   I drove through there this weekend from clt and headed to the mountains on 321 and noticed before you cross over 321 on 85 on the right they cleared a large area of trees.  Appears it would be large enough to have vehicles come off 85 down a ramp and go directly N on 321 with no stoplight which would also take away a stoplight for vehicles looking to get on to 85 from 321.   The interchange is a disaster on the weekends. 

I believe NCDOT is budgeting to widen 85 to four lanes all the way to the 321 interchange, but not until 2021 or so. The NCDOT website doesn't have any other mention of upgrading that area that I can find. 

[QClifer]

Thanks.  I haven’t seen anything either.  Maybe you are correct. 

[teeg]

At first, I could not find anything on the NCDOT site either, but I did find this link on an eminent domain law firm referral website:

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I-5000-Alt3-Rendering-11x17.pdf

Pretty novel solution if that's what they are doing.  The timeline mentioned on the lawyer site, plus the fact that they are clearing land that would obviously be needed for the redesigned interchange, suggests that they might actually be doing this before the I-85 widening project.  Fingers crossed.  

 

[QClifer]

Great find.  That’s the same  size of the area they have cleared.  Thanks 

[dubone]

Yeah, that I-5000 project seems to be under construction. 

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I5000_Alt3_rdy_wkshp.pdf

I'm guessing the Alt3 shown above is the selected approach, but they did have a Alt2 that had a fly over bridge

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I5000_Alt2_rdy_wkshp.pdf

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I-5000-Alt2-Rendering-11x17.pdf

 

Regardless, it's a separate project from the 85 widening so it will be done prior.    It would have been  nice to see on there some plan to upgrade that remaining section, but it seems like that is not on the budget for the coming years. It is nice they are also upgrading a major section of NC16 and budgeting for the Shelby bypass which we've covered plenty in here.  So that route to WNC is getting more alternatives over time.  

 

Quote

Contract Number:	C203846	Route:	US-321
Division:	12	County:	Gaston
TIP Number:	I-5000
Length:	0.644 miles	Federal Aid Number:	IMF-085-1(113)17
NCDOT Contact:	Eric W. Conner	NCDOT Contact No:	(828)468-6260
Location Description:	GEOMETRIC SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS TO I-85/US-321 INTERCHANGE.
Contractor Name:	TRIANGLE GRADING & PAVING INC
Contract Amount:	$15,617,950.65	Cost Overrun/Underrun:	0%
Work Began:	08/10/2017	Letting Date:	04/18/2017
Original Completion Date:	04/29/2020	Revised Completion Date:
Latest Payment Thru:	12/22/2017	Scheduled Progress:	9.5%
Latest Payment Date:	01/04/2018	Actual Progress:	23.11%

 

 

[teeg]

Since the geometric safety improvements will not be done until 2020, just between us, NC 275/279 through Dallas to I-85 is a very reasonable alternative to that intersection if your returning to Charlotte.  I forget about this about half the time, and then invariably come close to giving someone a physics lesson when they pull that trick where they stay in the left hand "thru traffic" lane until the last possible second.  Bonus: the Ingles off 321 has a Starbucks, and downtown Dallas is just lovely.  

[cowboy_wilhelm]

8 hours ago, dubone said:

Yeah, that I-5000 project seems to be under construction. 

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I5000_Alt3_rdy_wkshp.pdf

I'm guessing the Alt3 shown above is the selected approach, but they did have a Alt2 that had a fly over bridge

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I5000_Alt2_rdy_wkshp.pdf

https://www.ncdot.gov/download/projects/publichearings/I-5000-Alt2-Rendering-11x17.pdf

 

Regardless, it's a separate project from the 85 widening so it will be done prior.    It would have been  nice to see on there some plan to upgrade that remaining section, but it seems like that is not on the budget for the coming years. It is nice they are also upgrading a major section of NC16 and budgeting for the Shelby bypass which we've covered plenty in here.  So that route to WNC is getting more alternatives over time.  

 

 

I-5000 Roadway Plans

This sheet from the signing plans gives a good overview with less detail.

[nyxmike]

Anybody know what's going on with the 485 and Independence Boulevard toll lane projects? They were supposed to start in 2017 but I guess are delayed because of the 77 toll lane debacle? Those are different though because 485 includes adding a general purpose lane in addition to the toll lanes from Rea Rd to Independence and the bus lanes on Independence are already restricted and would just be converted.

[Third Strike]

1 hour ago, nyxmike said:

Anybody know what's going on with the 485 and Independence Boulevard toll lane projects? They were supposed to start in 2017 but I guess are delayed because of the 77 toll lane debacle? Those are different though because 485 includes adding a general purpose lane in addition to the toll lanes from Rea Rd to Independence and the bus lanes on Independence are already restricted and would just be converted.

It got delayed until later this year. 

[KJHburg]

Couple photos today from the Monroe Bypass Toll road at the US 74 intersection right near I-485.   the last 2 photos are where the toll expressway turns under existing US 74 to go further north and parallel roughly Secrest Shortcut Rd.   This will be huge for Union County eliminating all the truck traffic through Monroe and the beach traffic away from the existing US 74. 

[KJHburg]

This is an intriguing idea that Georgia is proposing an interstate highway for trucks and commercial vehicles only.  Due to the huge port of Savannah and the fact I-75 south of ATL is the main corridor for distribution into Florida, this is a good idea I would think.  I have been on this stretch and the truck traffic is really heavy. NC has corridors where this would work too like I-85 through the Piedmont.

http://www.wtoc.com/story/37443204/gdot-looks-to-build-truck-only-interstate

[Matthew.Brendan]

An idea that is decades over due IMHO

[AuLukey]

That’s what they should have done with 77 honestly. So much of the N Meck traffic could be alleviated if commercial vehicles had a dedicated ROW in any form.

[Third Strike]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This is an intriguing idea that Georgia is proposing an interstate highway for trucks and commercial vehicles only.  Due to the huge port of Savannah and the fact I-75 south of ATL is the main corridor for distribution into Florida, this is a good idea I would think.  I have been on this stretch and the truck traffic is really heavy. NC has corridors where this would work too like I-85 through the Piedmont.

http://www.wtoc.com/story/37443204/gdot-looks-to-build-truck-only-interstate

This reminds me of the NJ Turnpike. Three lanes on one side is for cars only and the other three lanes are for trucks and cars. 

Perhaps a truck only interstate should be considered for NC 49/US 64. That would alleviate so much traffic from I-85 and I-40.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:04 PM, KJHburg said:

Couple photos today from the Monroe Bypass Toll road at the US 74 intersection right near I-485.   the last 2 photos are where the toll expressway turns under existing US 74 to go further north and parallel roughly Secrest Shortcut Rd.   This will be huge for Union County eliminating all the truck traffic through Monroe and the beach traffic away from the existing US 74. 

Anyone know if they're on schedule to finish this year? It doesn't really look like it, and I can't find the project on the NCDOT Construction Progress Report.

[KJHburg]

It says late 2018 but wouldn't bet my toll on it. https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/monroeconnector

[Nick2]

On 2/7/2018 at 4:03 PM, Third Strike said:

This reminds me of the NJ Turnpike. Three lanes on one side is for cars only and the other three lanes are for trucks and cars. 

Perhaps a truck only interstate should be considered for NC 49/US 64. That would alleviate so much traffic from I-85 and I-40.

They are making major improvements to 64 and 49 in and around the Asheboro area including an interstate quality bypass around the city. There is already extremely heavy thru-traffic with trucks.

49 is going to continue it's upgrades already in progress to become 4 lanes and somewhat limited access from CLT to Asheboro.

64 will also be getting various improvements from Asheboro to Apex/Cary to help the flow of traffic.

NC 24 and 27 will also be receiving upgrades and bypasses from Fayetteville to CLT. They're building bypasses around Troy and Carthage in the center of the state and want to make it more limited access from Albemarle to 485.

Basically, they are in the process of upgrading the road network statewide to better connect the metro areas even if it isn't actual interstate construction.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Nick2

[cowboy_wilhelm]

17 hours ago, Nick2 said:

They are making major improvements to 64 and 49 in and around the Asheboro area including an interstate quality bypass around the city. There is already extremely heavy thru-traffic with trucks.

49 is going to continue it's upgrades already in progress to become 4 lanes and somewhat limited access from CLT to Asheboro.

64 will also be getting various improvements from Asheboro to Apex/Cary to help the flow of traffic.

NC 24 and 27 will also be receiving upgrades and bypasses from Fayetteville to CLT. They're building bypasses around Troy and Carthage in the center of the state and want to make it more limited access from Albemarle to 485.

Basically, they are in the process of upgrading the road network statewide to better connect the metro areas even if it isn't actual interstate construction.

It's a shame they're making the Asheboro bypass in the shape of a horseshoe to get traffic as close as possible to the NC Zoo. Unless traffic is especially heavy in Asheboro, it's only going to shave a couple of minutes off the trip.

The only improvement coming for 64 between Asheboro and Apex is an "access management" (median) project through Siler City. There may be a few smaller intersection upgrades as well (a few have already become "superstreets" with the forced U-turn to make a left). A major upgrade is coming in a few years for the section between Apex and US 1, which is the worst part of the whole stretch.

NCDOT has no additional widening projects scheduled for NC 49 at this time. None of the projects scored high enough in the prioritization process to receive funding.

There are three widening projects scheduled for US 64 between Asheboro and I-85. I don't know if they think this is a better alternative than 49? Traffic volumes are slightly higher at 8,000-11,000 AADT versus 4,000-8,000 on NC 49, and it's less overall distance to upgrade and widen. It's estimated at $147 million for all three projects, and that's still leaving a gap in the middle. Enjoy your tolls on 77.

[southslider]

Just build a bypass around Wadesboro and a free-flow connection from I-74 to US-1, and there'd be a southern alternate  expressway to 85/40 between Charlotte and Raleigh, granted with tolled sections approaching each metro.

[KJHburg]

I-77 north and the toll lane construction.  In all my years I have never seen so many people working on a highway.    Photos 1/2/3  south of Exit 23 Huntersville  4/5  between exit 25-28 and photo 6 . north of exit 30 Davidson the Lake crossing south of exit 31.  

[go_vertical]

While I'm not all that happy about the future of toll roads here I will say that after a little while they just become a part of daily life you don't even think about. I'm from Orlando and they're everywhere there. Now, when I used them on a regular basis nearly ten years ago they really weren't all that expensive (most in the .50 to 1.00 range with a few up to 1.50) and did save A TON of time a vast majority of the time. I'm sure it's a bigger bite today.

What I'm more sad about here is the loss of the dense tree canopy along the edges of 77. It did an amazing job of hiding the size of the city with the exception of the immediate Uptown area. 77 north of Uptown and 77 south are night and day now. I know the trees were eventually going to go someday, but I'm going to miss the surprise skyline smack-to-the-face you got while driving through.

[jednc]

4 hours ago, go_vertical said:

While I'm not all that happy about the future of toll roads here I will say that after a little while they just become a part of daily life you don't even think about. I'm from Orlando and they're everywhere there. Now, when I used them on a regular basis nearly ten years ago they really weren't all that expensive (most in the .50 to 1.00 range with a few up to 1.50) and did save A TON of time a vast majority of the time. I'm sure it's a bigger bite today.

What I'm more sad about here is the loss of the dense tree canopy along the edges of 77. It did an amazing job of hiding the size of the city with the exception of the immediate Uptown area. 77 north of Uptown and 77 south are night and day now. I know the trees were eventually going to go someday, but I'm going to miss the surprise skyline smack-to-the-face you got while driving through.

I know this is very anti Urban of me, but I feel the opposite. Growing up in the south in the 70s and 80s, I loved going to cities where I knew 30 miles out that I was entering a big city. While the drive through North Meck was certainly more green and lush, even now I can envision what this new super wide interstate is going to look like and it's going to completely change the approach to Charlotte. I can't wait.

[videtur quam contuor]

Somewhere on this site KJH posted his photos from his youth on a drive on 77 through Charlotte. The trees and foliage were much younger than today and the views were thereby far larger for the roadside, nearby buildings and the (much smaller) skyline. He noted the differences in his post.

If KJH is reading this and can direct to those photos it would enlighten this discussion.

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Somewhere on this site KJH posted his photos from his youth on a drive on 77 through Charlotte. The trees and foliage were much younger than today and the views were thereby far larger for the roadside, nearby buildings and the (much smaller) skyline. He noted the differences in his post.

If KJH is reading this and can direct to those photos it would enlighten this discussion.

Yes that was closer to uptown and I took both of these photos many years ago and look out the gray Duke Energy bldg is prominent. 

^^^ in terms of I-77 north what I did not take photos of are the massive sound walls going up and there are a lot more of them than I thought. Basically wherever homes back up to the interstate.