Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[tozmervo 7877]

It's been discussed elsewhere, but because the ROW is so narrow for much of that stretch of 77, new lane capacity may have to be elevated. There have been some studies done, but I'm not sure where to find them now.

[easzman 41]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

It's been discussed elsewhere, but because the ROW is so narrow for much of that stretch of 77, new lane capacity may have to be elevated. There have been some studies done, but I'm not sure where to find them now.

That's what I thought. The stretch between Nations Ford Rd and 277 is very narrow in some sections with businesses close on each side. 

Would there be a benefit in limiting access to the road by closing off ramps at Nations Ford Rd, Clanton, Remount, and West Blvd? I know it sounds crazy to do this but can you imagine how bad this road will be in another 5 years as more folks choose to live in SC and work in Charlotte. Perhaps it just needs to become too painful of a choice to make and in the end it will be difficult for employers to hire people for jobs located in uptown if it's not suited for a young college grad willing to live in NoDa or SouthEnd.

[NcSc74 354]

10 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Yes. The road is going to be widened from six lanes to ten, four being toll lanes. Construction should start sometime in the 2020s. Unlike the widening project on I-77 in north Mecklenburg, the toll lanes will be owned by the state. 

Im going to open up an old wound but I gotta be me.

Instead of of funding and building 795, 840, 74, 73 or 84 I think that the interstate designation for that convluted interstate from RAL to Norfolk; the state should have addresssed the high growth areas first.  I summize the finding of these projects was a way to stick it to CLT for building light rail.  Which light rail has been a catalyst for growth and actually a reason CLT is a legit GDP, pop growth, job creation juggernaught.  If I'm wrong someone correct me.  

I actually could understand 74 if there was a numberesd spur to CLT, I-174, that ended in WILM or even dog-legged to the SC border.  But we all know that is not the reality nor how this is going to end.

[Nick2 5140]

8 hours ago, NcSc74 said:

Im going to open up an old wound but I gotta be me.

Instead of of funding and building 795, 840, 74, 73 or 84 I think that the interstate designation for that convluted interstate from RAL to Norfolk; the state should have addresssed the high growth areas first.  I summize the finding of these projects was a way to stick it to CLT for building light rail.  Which light rail has been a catalyst for growth and actually a reason CLT is a legit GDP, pop growth, job creation juggernaught.  If I'm wrong someone correct me.  

I actually could understand 74 if there was a numberesd spur to CLT, I-174, that ended in WILM or even dog-legged to the SC border.  But we all know that is not the reality nor how this is going to end.

I genuinely don't understand why they haven't already dedicated us74 as a future interstate to Rockingham where it can link up with i-74 and continue to the coast.

[jtmonk 988]

20 hours ago, easzman said:

That's what I thought. The stretch between Nations Ford Rd and 277 is very narrow in some sections with businesses close on each side. 

Would there be a benefit in limiting access to the road by closing off ramps at Nations Ford Rd, Clanton, Remount, and West Blvd? I know it sounds crazy to do this but can you imagine how bad this road will be in another 5 years as more folks choose to live in SC and work in Charlotte. Perhaps it just needs to become too painful of a choice to make and in the end it will be difficult for employers to hire people for jobs located in uptown if it's not suited for a young college grad willing to live in NoDa or SouthEnd.

I don't think shutting down those ramps is a good idea.  Yes, it may help alleviate some traffic but at the expense of those who live in NC, mainly off those exits and pay NC taxes to maintain and expand 77 all the while benefiting people in SC who do not pay these same taxes.   I believe that after 77 is widen as planed, along with a mix of express buses and the blue line, there should be plenty of options for those people who live in SC to make it to Uptown.  No, I do not believe it is not going to become too painful and employers are not going to find it difficult to hire people for all the jobs located in Uptown.  All major, fast growing cities have traffic issues, many worse than Charlotte, and employers continue to build and add jobs in those downtowns. 

 

[CLT> 1405]

On 7/4/2019 at 1:16 PM, easzman said:

That's what I thought. The stretch between Nations Ford Rd and 277 is very narrow in some sections with businesses close on each side. 

Would there be a benefit in limiting access to the road by closing off ramps at Nations Ford Rd, Clanton, Remount, and West Blvd? I know it sounds crazy to do this but can you imagine how bad this road will be in another 5 years as more folks choose to live in SC and work in Charlotte. Perhaps it just needs to become too painful of a choice to make and in the end it will be difficult for employers to hire people for jobs located in uptown if it's not suited for a young college grad willing to live in NoDa or SouthEnd.

Or, this stretch of highway should simply not be widened. If we widen it to 10 lanes that too will fill and people will be clamoring for 14 lanes. If

This will have the added benefit of making SC less desirable because of the congestion between the state line and Charlotte.

Put this kind of money into commuter rail to Rock Hill and pay back far more dividends than a massive highway widening.

The costs? Serious loss of parkland, something which the county can ill afford, loss of additional historic neighborhood fabric, and loss of over 140 businesses.

Feasability Study here: https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0810A_Report_2015.pdf

These are the Alternative plans in the fesability study (Note these are 2014 $, so it will likely be far higher when land aquisition would start)

• It is anticipated the 5-2-2-5 Alternative will require 122 residential relocations and 187 business relocations, with a total cost of $1,028,000,000, which includes $310,100,000 in right of way, $3,250,000 for Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS), $26,250,000 for potential toll equipment, $686,800,000 in construction costs, and $1,600,000 in utility costs.
• It is anticipated the 4-2-2-4 Alternative will require 110 residential relocations and 136 business relocations, with a total cost of $970,800,000, which includes $283,900,000 in right of way, $3,250,000 for ITS, $26,250,000 for potential toll equipment, $655,800,000 in construction costs, and $1,600,000 in utility costs.
• It is anticipated the 3-2-2-3 Alternative will require 107 residential relocations and 135 business relocations, with a total cost of $925,400,000, which includes $262,500,000 in right of way, $3,250,000 for ITS, $26,250,000 for potential toll equipment, $631,800,000 in construction costs, and $1,600,000 in utility costs.
• It is anticipated the 5-2-2-5 Elevated Alternative will require 112 residential relocations and 142 business relocations, with a total cost of $2,160,900,000, which includes $288,600,000 in right of way, $3,250,000 for ITS, $26,250,000 for potential toll equipment, $1,841,200,000 in construction costs, and $1,600,000 in utility costs. • It is anticipated the 3-2-2-3 C-D System Alternative will require 122 residential relocations and 187 business relocations, with a total cost of $1,130,600,000, which includes $357,700,000 in right of way, $3,250,000 for ITS, $26,250,000 for potential toll equipment, $741,800,000 in construction costs, and $1,600,000 in utility costs.

 

[southslider 1227]

^All alternatives have the same cost for toll equipment.  If the new lanes aren't free, they shouldn't fill up so quickly as with a normal expressway widening.

[KJHburg 60837]

Here is a Charlotte Agenda story about self driving cars and here in the Raleigh Cary area they are here.  I was driving up the NC 540 toll road from Apex Cary to the Angus Barn in NW Raleigh yesterday.  I was cruising about 75 or so (limit is 70 and there are no toll booths) and all of the sudden I come upon 2 delivery vans going 55 mph or so in the fast lane far left lane and they were about 3 feet of apart from each other tailing each other.  It all happened so quick no photos but it was a self driving vehicle test I believe.   I should have honked at these self driving vehicles as they should have been going at least the speed limit or in another lane LOL, 

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/171762/self-driving-cars-expected-to-dominate-charlotte-roads-by-2030-heres-how-well-get-there/

Photos from NC longest toll road NC 540 and it will get even longer soon once it completes the loop around the southside of Raleigh. 

 

[EllAyyDub 784]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/171762/self-driving-cars-expected-to-dominate-charlotte-roads-by-2030-heres-how-well-get-there/

Worst article I have read in a while.  Driverless cars are no silver bullet.  You will either still want to park your car near you during work, or there will be 2x as many trips (i.e. to office with you, home without you, to office without you, home with you).  Additionally, they will be EXPENSIVE - all these investors plowing money into the development will want to see a return on their investments...  There is and will always be a need for cheaper, reliable, fixed path/commute time options.  To think otherwise is ludicrous.  Absolute best case scenario we have around the same amount of traffic we have now (factoring in population growth; currently a positive traffic situation relative to our peers) and will still have a need for expanded public transportation.

To be fair, there are positives involved, but this comes in the form of a decrease in need to expand highway infrastructure that could be funneled to education, affordable housing, etc..  

To close, I hate this line:  "Instead of sinking money into an unchanging route, they might want to see money put behind support for autonomous vehicles."  Yes, lets publicly fund toys for the elite at the expense of transportation options for the masses... How delusional can you be...

[KJHburg 60837]

Speaking of toll roads and specifically toll lanes here in the Charlotte area here is what NC DOT has in store for the Charlotte area.   Subscriber article from the Business Journal.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/07/09/how-the-nc-turnpike-authoritys-2-2b-toll-lane-plan.html?iana=hpmvp_clt_news_headline

""The N.C. Turnpike Authority's $2.2 billion plan for interstate toll lanes here promises to dramatically reshape commuting into Charlotte from the south and eastern side of the region. The authority offers a glimpse of motoring in the Charlotte region in a video here.  The Turnpike Authority plans add toll lanes to interstates 77 and 485 to the south of uptown and to U.S. Highway 74 or Independence Boulevard for the eastern commuters.  The three projects — coupled with the I-77 toll lanes that are scheduled to open completely later this year — would create a continuous U-shape of express lanes around south Mecklenburg to north Meck and into Iredell County. A driver could turn onto a toll lane on Independence Boulevard just south of uptown and navigate all the way — 55 miles — to Mooresville without leaving an express lane. The cost of that drive — in terms of total tolls — hasn’t been determined yet but will vary according to congestion.  At the earliest, drivers could be motoring along all those toll lanes in the early 2030s, says Rodger Rochelle, chief engineer at the Turnpike Authority.""

some timing details

""The first of three planned Charlotte express-lane projects — toll lanes on I-485 for 17 miles between U.S. 74 and I-77 — begins later this summer. It will add one toll lane in each direction for the length of the project. That is the same plan for the other two toll-lane projects.  The I-485 project will cost $346 million — including the cost of a new interchange at Weddington Road and other improvements — and is targeted for late 2022 completion. The heavily congested expressway handles between 80,000 and 146,000 vehicles a day.   In September, Blythe Construction Inc. was awarded the construction contract and should start work in the next two months, .  The U.S. 74 project starts next. At a cost of $700 million, that project would begin construction in the next eight or nine years and be completed around 2030. The U.S. 74 toll-lane project replaces an earlier idea to convert center bus lanes along Independence into toll lanes that run west toward uptown for the morning commute and then reverse directions for the afternoon commute to flow east out of uptown.""

so if you don't have your NC Quick Pass sticker I would get one soon.  

Here is the video they speak of about the toll lanes in the region.

 

[Cadi40 1104]

I’m all for Toll Lanes but maybe let’s build an actual Turnpike that benefits the majority of daily commuters and not just those bypassing Monroe.

[easzman 41]

Toll lanes on 485 will not provide relief to the congestion getting to 485 due to all the commuters coming in from Union County & Lancaster County. The feeder roads (Johnston Rd / Rea Rd /  Providence Rd) are backed up every morning and evening.  

[Cadi40 1104]

Not to mention what happens when the toll lanes get backed up because there is only 1 lane, there are going to be unavoidable car accidents from merging to and from the lanes.

[grodney 2924]

Whoa the 485 lanes start this year?  Wow and ugh.  And am I reading that correctly that they're adding an exit at Weddington Rd in the same project?

[KJHburg 60837]

5 minutes ago, grodney said:

Whoa the 485 lanes start this year?  Wow and ugh.  And am I reading that correctly that they're adding an exit at Weddington Rd in the same project?

Yes they are starting within the month if not sooner.  and the long planned Weddington Rd exit is apart of this project. 

[CLT> 1405]

On 7/10/2019 at 11:39 AM, KJHburg said:

Yes they are starting within the month if not sooner.  and the long planned Weddington Rd exit is apart of this project. 

The Weddington Road exit will just further the congestion, would be great to see them not build the final 2 unbuilt interchanges and forbid any new ones in the future. 

[ertley 528]

The city is doing a pretty good job, I think, of planning for future street (re)connections, but there are tons of places I think should be given more careful attention. I realize road construction costs a ton of money, though, and those funds are finite. I've long thought, though, that a smart investment would be bridging Tremont across I 77, to terminate on Remount, instead of ignominiously as a dead end next to 77, and to feed onto both Remount as well as directly to the exit onto (only) south 77:

As far as major road projects go, it wouldn't be all that complex, and I think it would achieve several things: 

1. Tremont, which is becoming an increasingly vital part of the South End (who would've thought?), can have a real connection on its west end that actually leads somewhere, making it a true city street, an artery through the area. It effectively becomes Park Road on its east end, and of course then intersects with Scott and Kenilworth to then become The Park Road. So, with this relatively do-able project, you can travel-south to northwest, all the way from Carolina Place or Ballentyne, through Dilworth, South End and Wilmore, and cross 77 to take Remount, which is planned to connect to Camp Greene Street and thus take you across Freedom and all the way to Tuckaseegee.

2. I think this would, more importantly, reduce traffic congestion on South Tryon and even South Boulevard--during afternoon rush hour (it wouldn't change things in the morning, because of the nature of the 77 exit). There's no additional exchange with 77--neither egress nor entrance--just reducing the amount of time cars spend traversing South End and Wilmore. Instead of having to go an additional five or six blocks south on either--and in rush hour that's a fair amount of time--with added distance once on Remount, to get to 77, afternoon rush hour commuters just hang a right on Tremont.

3. Except for the few units at Brookhill (who's days are surely numbered) that back onto Tremont, it's not a residential street--at least now, before the new stuff being built and planned get finished--so it's not something that would disrupt a nice, quiet neighborhood street that also happens to dead end.   

4. By making Tremont a true artery, it will provide further impetus to develop it west of Tryon along TOD lines. It'll be a little extra walk to East/West or the planned Atherton station from there, but it's still within a reasonable walking distance. I know that sort of development is already happening there, but it could intensify the type of future projects planned.

Perhaps the future widening of 77 would obviate this, but it's just a bridge, so I don't see how it couldn't be achieved, if prioritized. 

[tarhoosier 4727]

A friend who lives on Tremont in South End told me his technique of navigating home from northbound 77. He exited at Remount, crossed straight on to Toomey and turned right on Tremont. If one catches the light at Tryon this is nearly seamless. This answers the northbound issue as your solution was for southbound.

I have also used two of the three businesses that are on the dead end part of Tremont where it turns to parallel 77. As forgotten an address as one could find. 

[A2. 921]

^ I say we nominate you to head up DOT.  I would agree with Everything you posted ertley! 

A2

Edited July 11, 2019 by A2.

[jjwilli 510]

28 minutes ago, ertley said:

 

Perhaps the future widening of 77 would obviate this, but it's just a bridge, so I don't see how it couldn't be achieved, if prioritized. 

I agree with this 120%. Tremont needs to be a funnel into and out of South End from 77. The feasibility plans (below) for 77 would kill your idea as presented, however they are just now actually designing the road way. It will have at least four fewer lanes than this monstrosity below.

Can we bury 77 through here? 

[JorgiPorgi 5484]

Random shot of passing underneath the new FLyovers for toll lanes at 77/277. 

[kermit 10577]

17 hours ago, ertley said:

1. Tremont, which is becoming an increasingly vital part of the South End (who would've thought?), can have a real connection on its west end that actually leads somewhere, making it a true city street, an artery through the area.

This cranky Dilworth resident gives this idea a hearty 'no thank you.'

While I recognize that my attitude is true NIMBYism, I would ask how would such a proposal (in any part of Charlotte) improve quality of life for Charlotte residents? It certainly doesn't help increase the supply of housing, nor does it do much to improve accessibility for people who live in the neighborhood. Any driving time improvements will be temporary (at best) and would come at the cost of significantly less walkability and more difficult Blue Line access.  How does Charlotte benefit from making it easier for suburbanites to drive fast through intown neighborhoods?

Having said all that, I will say the Tremont to Remount bridge is a pretty good idea. 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by kermit

[drumsy 129]

And so it begins: https://www.salisburypost.com/2019/07/11/i-85-rehab-project-in-rowan-begins-this-wweekend/

[Nolan 45]

11 hours ago, jjwilli said:

I agree with this 120%. Tremont needs to be a funnel into and out of South End from 77. The feasibility plans (below) for 77 would kill your idea as presented, however they are just now actually designing the road way. It will have at least four fewer lanes than this monstrosity below.

Can we bury 77 through here? 

Where did you find this map from?

[southslider 1227]

connect.ncdot.gov