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Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

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On 7/12/2019 at 8:53 PM, kermit said:

I really wish that states and cities would quit throwing money at this vaporware.

Part of the capitalist philosophy is that you put some money behind a NEW idea and you see where it goes... evaluate it some time later and go from there.

Not sure where Virgin Hyperloop is, but since 2015 there have been competitions held by SpaceX specifically in a ~1 mile vacuum* tube.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop_pod_competition

Just because you do not like an idea, does not automatically make it "vaporware".

You can follow the updates for the competition here (interestingly enough, the pod competition for this year starts today) https://mobile.twitter.com/Hyperloop

 

* Nearly vacuum, you do not need to bring the tube to a hard vacuum, the original white paper from 2013 addressed that [ https://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf ]:

image.thumb.png.1c829049c41319fc1a166460df1735a5.png

Edited by Scribe

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It is extremely frustrating to see that the planning organization and other layers of government did not use the political issue of 77 to find additional funding sources for the transportation network.  Now they are scraping the bottom of the barrel to fund the 77 rush hour shoulder lanes, canceling a host of greenway and mobility projects in the region, which already also receive a dearth of funding already. 

 https://www.crtpo.org/PDFs/Agenda_Minutes/2019/TCC_2019_06_Jul_Agenda.pdf

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I saw lighted signs near exit 9b on 77 with dates of a controlled burn. Any idea what they are burning?

Edited by SpiritOf76

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6 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

I'm not counting that as a win. All they did was raid other transportation projects for this completely misguided nonsense. It also just means years more construction on 77's free lanes for a fix that will be temporary at best.

Anything is Better than the toll roads right now. Some people can't afford $3k a year to go to 485 from Mooresville. I could understand all the tolls in Florida, but y'all pay state tax too. Talk about being taken behind the woodshed.

Edited by mpretori

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I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but in the article above it said they've "identified other funding that will allow all those projects to move forward". So is that implying none of the projects that were raided for this temp-fix are actually being killed by it?

(And that's not to say they wouldn't still be delayed by this re-funneling of fed $ , which in a lot of cases isn't much better.)

Edited by Eightane

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3 minutes ago, Eightane said:

I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but in the article above it said they've "identified other funding that will allow all those projects to move forward". So is that implying none of the projects that were raided for this temp-fix are actually being killed by it?

(And that's not to say they wouldn't still be delayed by this re-funneling of fed $ , which in a lot of cases isn't much better.)

Construction will begin when cintra is completed with 77 I read in another article.

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Cintra's contract includes maintaining all lanes of 77 (not just the tolled ones) north of Uptown to Mooresville.  Adding shoulder lanes could easily be challenged or even litigated as a breach of contract.

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1 hour ago, southslider said:

Cintra's contract includes maintaining all lanes of 77 (not just the tolled ones) north of Uptown to Mooresville.  Adding shoulder lanes could easily be challenged or even litigated as a breach of contract.

Attorney general and ncdot says it's not a breach. Cintra can scream all they want.

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4 minutes ago, JHart said:

Then don't take the toll roads. The people that can afford them will use them and not be on the main roads. If it's still that bad, find some people who live nearby and commute to Uptown (too many people in your opinion) and use them for free and get another 2 cars off the road. Also while Char-Meck taxes are much higher than the rest of NC, it is laughable to complain about paying state taxes here compared to other states. The reason they don't have sufficient highway funding is because of our low tax rates. Gutting our other budgets because the people who don't want to live in Charlotte then complain about their commutes is not the answer

Going to be much better with the additional lane :) and NC taxes are far from low. Why do people live in rock Hill and commute to Charlotte? Hmmm. NC taxes are high. People enjoy the lake and don't want to live in South Park. 

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1 hour ago, mpretori said:

Going to be much better with the additional lane :) and NC taxes are far from low. Why do people live in rock Hill and commute to Charlotte? Hmmm. NC taxes are high. People enjoy the lake and don't want to live in South Park. 

I still can't see this making anything much better. The lanes will only be open during peak periods. You are now going to have people merging from the toll lanes all the way over to the exit/ shoulder lanes causing slowdowns and traffic. Additionally, it'll create safety issues for first responders. 

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2 hours ago, dubone said:

 If we want stuff,  there must be a stream of revenue to pay for it, and if not from the general public, then from the user of that stuff.  It's a magical reality of economics in a free market society without slavery.      Federal and state gas tax revenues have been declining by many metrics, and since the revenues into the transportation trust funds are declining, the solution is fewer road expansions or tolls, unless they seek a revenue increase that is equivalent to what they used to take in.    Since the revenues are declining, it also means that drivers are paying less than they would have whether they realize it or not, and that leaves disposable income for paying tolls. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-02-15/gas-taxes-aren-t-paying-the-bills-for-roads-anymore

In the case of I-77, ten years ago the only planned widening on the waitlist for funding  was the HOV lanes to 485.  Period.  There was nothing on the list for anything north of 485.  I used to be surprised by that, but it was a fact back then, as there were far more higher priority needs.  Everyone that moved to LKN back then was moving to an area knowing the interstate was 2x2 and assuming the road would be expanded once they created hellish traffic from their uninformed life choices.    But the region already didn't even have money higher priority roads, and had to use bonds to do the 85 sections and a tiny portion of US74 and finishing 485.  Those bonds will be still needing to be paid for years, limiting the budget for new projects even more.   

Thus, the NCDOT toll lane plan for the whole region came about to be able to build the capacity for everyone, but to have some market pricing for tolls to help reduce wasteful use of the expensive capacity that we can no longer afford due to the declines in the trust fund. 

LKN got theirs first, and McCrory screwed it up by trying to use a private company to manage it, and suddenly North Meck became socialist and heavily opposed to market prices for the stuff they waste.    But while we are asking for free stuff for the sad sad people who can't afford a few dollars for their 40 mile commutes, perhaps the transit fares for those commuting to work minimum wage to clean the toilets uptown?  

I sure don't need 77 to be any more than 2 lanes, and it affects me not at all if the people that moved to LKN when there were no plans for a road expansion to wait in traffic with all the others that made similar life choices.     But I did grow up in a healthy home, so I am glad they got their road doubled in capacity for them a decade early! 

Who do you think you ask telling people they made uninformed life choices? Without the lake, Charlotte and the county would be more poor. Ever cross your mind why they removed that horrible fence along 77. I can come up with maps and stats of where the counties tax base is, but you seem to already made up your mind. Enjoy your high taxes in South Park! 

Edited by mpretori

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4 hours ago, JHart said:

Then don't take the toll roads. The people that can afford them will use them and not be on the main roads. If it's still that bad, find some people who live nearby and commute to Uptown (too many people in your opinion) and use them for free and get another 2 cars off the road. Also while Char-Meck taxes are much higher than the rest of NC, it is laughable to complain about paying state taxes here compared to other states. The reason they don't have sufficient highway funding is because of our low tax rates. Gutting our other budgets because the people who don't want to live in Charlotte then complain about their commutes is not the answer

I agree with the sentiment but not the facts. Our taxes are high because businesses don't pay their fair share. Denver taxes, especially property, were much lower and services far better. It's not like they're smarter (well not that much anyway) they just have other sources of revenue.

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47 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

The property tax difference on a $400k house between South Park and Cornelius (the lowest tax rate in north meck) is only $930 a year. People talk about escaping taxes like they're moving here from New Jersey. 

How about the difference between South Park and Troutman?

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