Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Hushpuppy321]

8 hours ago, tozmervo said:

Unfortunately I think you have that backwards. The pricing is intended to ensure 45mph+ in the toll lanes themselves. That is, if too many are entering those lanes they will increase the price to reduce usage. There's been so much mis-information on the project I can't be 100% certain, but I believe that's correct.

You are correct in that assessment.  The Toll Lanes pricing increases as congestion increases.  This is to keep the Toll Lanes moving at least 45 MPH while others languish in the General Purpose Lanes.

[urbanlover568]

12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Talked to one of my friends who lives in Midtown Charlotte commutes to Cornelius and she loves the new toll lanes as the traffic in those lanes much faster and lighter than the regular lanes.  I have noticed on my traffic apps how there is not as much RED during rush hours anymore.    As for the other toll road in the area the Monroe Expressway is getting busier with truck traffic I noticed and I can not tell  you how much time it saves me just getting to Indian Trail (well worth my 86 cents roundtrip with my NC QuickPass)

Nice and cheap now. Prices double in a few months and school back in session. Will be interesting to see what happens when those are in play.

[dubone]

The variable pricing is somewhat intended to keep tolls very low when traffic is light, but to intentionally set a higher rate (Supply and Demand) to have just the right amount of cars in the lane so that traffic keeps moving. 

 

It is a critical part of roadways that they stay moving to actually move traffic.  Once they get so clogged that traffic stops, they stop moving cars.   By leveraging market-based capitalist ideals to control the scarce resource, they are able to keep that resource from being wasted.     A stopped lane moves no cars or people or commuters, and they are trying to balance it so that they maximize the number of cars that keep going.     The "free" way to help with this were the red lights at on ramps to more easily integrate incoming traffic with the regular traffic flow, but people ignore those like they don't exist, without realizing they are contributing to the slowdown of the lane which hurts everyone.   Using tolls to do this is what makes the 2 toll lanes have a much higher capacity for moving cars than the 2 free lanes.  

We know from other socialist processes that free means that some people waste the resource.  The best way to distribute the resource in the most efficient way is market-variable pricing. 

 

But regardless, it's nice to know that people spend far less percentage of GDP/income on fuel taxes, so they can afford the tolls.  But the road could have been free if the revenues were like they used to be.   We just get the flow control as a side benefit to having to use tolls to pay for the road. 

 

 

[videtur quam contuor]

In last twelve years we have had Light Rail, Uber, Lyft, bike shares, scooters and still 20,000 new parking deck spots uptown (WAG).

[southslider]

^Not bad, if more than 20K jobs added in same period 

[KJHburg]

Photos 1 and 2  I-85 widening in southern Rowan County the missing link for 6-8 lane access on I-85 from Charlotte through Greensboro to the I-40/I-85 split in Orange County near Hillsborough. 

Last 2 photos Drove on the NC 147 toll road in RTP which merges on to NC 540 the outer beltway of Raleigh that is or will be toll 2/3 of the way around.  Tolls are here to stay in NC for sure.  But I do hope they follow Georgia and Virginia's model of removing them when the bonds are paid off.   However I dont think they will do that with the express lanes around Charlotte. 

[southslider]

^All Interstate lane capacity projects for the foreseeable future in Mecklenburg are express lanes with variable pricing (tolls).

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Tolls are here to stay in NC for sure.  But I do hope they follow Georgia and Virginia's model of removing them when the bonds are paid off.   However I dont think they will do that with the express lanes around Charlotte. 

The system for managing congestion around Charlotte isn't planned to go away, but rather, it is planned to expand.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:39 AM, tarhoosier said:

In last twelve years we have had Light Rail, Uber, Lyft, bike shares, scooters and still 20,000 new parking deck spots uptown (WAG).

Shared moped rentals are the next trend, a la Vietnam. They are debuting in DC right now.

[Matthew.Brendan]

1 hour ago, DCMetroRaleigh said:

Shared moped rentals are the next trend, a la Vietnam. They are debuting in DC right now.

 

Hopefully all electric like these!

[elrodvt]

Charlotte lacks the density I believe but the car2go program in denver was a favorite of mine.

[KJHburg]

where you can pick up your NC Quick Pass in Charlotte off I-485 and Harris Blvd near Northlake Mall. 

[Spartan]

On 7/30/2019 at 11:02 AM, Third Strike said:

Are there any plans of improving the Brookshire Freeway in Uptown? Maybe I’m wrong in thinking this, but wouldn’t the freeway improve in mobility and safety if a couple of the on and off ramps were removed?

Yes. Check the MTP on CRTPO's website. It's still a ways off, but essentially redesigning all of the most problematic interchanges on I-277 is planned (more or less Davidson to Kenilworth). The others would be tackled by the I-77 South project.

[urbanlover568]

On 8/5/2019 at 10:16 AM, dubone said:

The variable pricing is somewhat intended to keep tolls very low when traffic is light, but to intentionally set a higher rate (Supply and Demand) to have just the right amount of cars in the lane so that traffic keeps moving. 

 

It is a critical part of roadways that they stay moving to actually move traffic.  Once they get so clogged that traffic stops, they stop moving cars.   By leveraging market-based capitalist ideals to control the scarce resource, they are able to keep that resource from being wasted.     A stopped lane moves no cars or people or commuters, and they are trying to balance it so that they maximize the number of cars that keep going.     The "free" way to help with this were the red lights at on ramps to more easily integrate incoming traffic with the regular traffic flow, but people ignore those like they don't exist, without realizing they are contributing to the slowdown of the lane which hurts everyone.   Using tolls to do this is what makes the 2 toll lanes have a much higher capacity for moving cars than the 2 free lanes.  

We know from other socialist processes that free means that some people waste the resource.  The best way to distribute the resource in the most efficient way is market-variable pricing. 

 

But regardless, it's nice to know that people spend far less percentage of GDP/income on fuel taxes, so they can afford the tolls.  But the road could have been free if the revenues were like they used to be.   We just get the flow control as a side benefit to having to use tolls to pay for the road. 

 

 

I think that if you pay a state tax, that should cover the roads. I was fine with FL tolls because of the state tax being 0%. Here in seattle, the prices are lower than what they will be for I77 and there is not 1 toll road that has 2 open lanes and 1 toll lane only. Also here we have traffic management on the on-ramps. Traffic here is lighter than Charlotte believe it or not. 

[A2.]

Ok, just rolled through the QC and one MAJOR complaint I still have is that it is pitch dark on incredibly busy sections of Interstate. When will we ever get lights for this town!? I have had grievances that go back as long as I can recall and it would seem that after a massive widening of a major artery they would at least light the freggin’ thing! It’s actually embarrassing for a city the size of Charlotte with its tax base to be in the dark. I travel extensively for my job and go through cities all the time and never have I seen a city Charlotte’s size be so dark. Shameful! 

(Ok, rant over. In a totally unrelated note, the skyline coming down Independence was spectacular this evening ).

A2

[allthingsplanes]

^ I've said the same thing numerous times.  Never gotten a good answer as to why...

[A2.]

1 hour ago, allthingsplanes said:

^ I've said the same thing numerous times.  Never gotten a good answer as to why...

It’s the Bain of my existence! I truly loathe light poles without illumination. It’s a poor reflection of the city and it’s extremely dangerous. I literally almost died trying to merge onto 77N from 277. That was less to do with lights and more to do with those concrete barriers that give you literally a hundred feet to merge. It’s a total cluster.

But, as for the lights, someone needs to get with the program. And don’t give me they were wired wrong or bad bulb crap. It’s a beautiful city with a massive tax base and it should be fixed. Period. Not to mention every city I go through has lights. Both smaller and larger than Charlotte.  It’s ridiculous !

Edited August 16, 2019 by A2.

[Nolan]

NCDOT doesn't care for Charlotte like that, and NCDOT is still rural-centric in planning, also it doesn't help that the legislature is so focused on rural areas for transportation money.

[urbanlover568]

I hope charlotte covers the innerloop.  Seattle's covered interstates are beautiful! 

[A2.]

2 hours ago, mpretori said:

I hope charlotte covers the innerloop.  Seattle's covered interstates are beautiful! 

Definitely nice! Where there’s a will there’s a way. Sadly I’m not sure there’s a will. Even then, I am not sure about the funding. Still it would be truly Awesome! 

400 going under Buckhead gives me some hope that maybe one day Charlotte could do something similar. Any cap, can and should be developed. Plus that would also present a GOLDEN Opportunity for a connector park between neighboring enclaves. The easiest to envision would be a cap between Uptown and Southend. It would be TRANSFORMATIVE!

Edited August 18, 2019 by A2.

[Third Strike]

Federal program would help cities tear down highways

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/08/14/federal-program-would-help-cities-tear-down-highways/

[A2.]

1 hour ago, Third Strike said:

Federal program would help cities tear down highways

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/08/14/federal-program-would-help-cities-tear-down-highways/

Now that’s a program I could get behind! Thanks for sharing ThirdStrike!

 

A2

[Nick2]

I don't think most of Charlotte's interstates could justify capping right now but 277 on the south side of Uptown would make sense to better join uptown and southend. Perhaps between church st and south Blvd.

[A2.]

3 hours ago, Nick2 said:

I don't think most of Charlotte's interstates could justify capping right now but 277 on the south side of Uptown would make sense to better join uptown and southend. Perhaps between church st and south Blvd.

That area you highlighted is exactly where I would do it. It makes a ton of sense and would yield millions back in taxes from newly formed developable land. Throw in a connector park and I’m sold. 

As for capping any other major artery or interstate , I agree. Way Too much money and not worth the effort. Plus I would prefer all focus be on density of the Uptown core. Capping 277 and getting Levine to do SOMETHING (anything really) would be a game changer for Uptown. 

That said, one could make another equally attractive argument in transforming the QC, and take out 277 altogether. It would require some engineering and will power, but would truly make the urban fabric Uptown that much better over the years and decades to come. My thoughts are that it will never happen. But if this were a Sim City turn reality, it would be the first thing I would do. 

 

A2

Edited August 19, 2019 by A2.

[Nick2]

@A2. I don't think interstate caps usually have heavy development on them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). But I could see a low-rise entertainment/shopping district with maybe some high-end townhomes (like Camden grandeview) and a large park.

[A2.]

2 hours ago, Nick2 said:

@A2. I don't think interstate caps usually have heavy development on them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). But I could see a low-rise entertainment/shopping district with maybe some high-end townhomes (like Camden grandeview) and a large park.

Yes and no (depending on the type of Cap, also see my post above which shows The Atlanta Financial Center, which is actually built directly over 400 in Buckhead). 

By capping the area between 277, you can develop areas that are now deemed right of ways currently for the existing Highway. Plus there is engineering out there that would allow for certain “pads” to be further developed  (including high rise development). The truth is many projects across the country and the world over are burying & capping roadways that have severed communities from the Urban core. One that comes to mind is a mind blowing proposal in ATL to connect Midtown to Downtown called “The Stitch”.  I will throw in a couple of links below to give you some idea of what it would look like. First one is just a general article on the “why” (which we all can appreciate) and the second link to the actual proposal in Atlanta. (I will actually be shocked if even the ATL can pull off such an ambitious project). 

But even if a Cap was not engineered to support additional development, it would still be very much worth it, if for only to have a Center City Park that would link Southend to Uptown. Think of the synergy of this one project! But I digress, as it won’t happen in my lifetime, if ever. But a man can dream. 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2018/04/more-cities-are-banishing-highways-underground-and-building-parks-on-top%3famp=1

 

The Stitch:

https://www.atlantadowntown.com/initiatives/the-stitch

ps——or we could just do this, run 277 THROUGH new construction ....Gate Tower Building (Japan)

Edited August 19, 2019 by A2.