Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Nathan2]

30 minutes ago, michaelef said:

I'm in Plaza a lot and that intersection is busy, but what I've noticed is that sometimes all of the lights are red to allow pedestrian crossing for both sides of the street. No car traffic is allowed through. I think CDOT might be testing it because it doesn't always happen. 

 

That would be great if true. I cross the street there almost everyday and usually have to wait a good two or three minutes

[michaelef]

12 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

That would be great if true. I cross the street there almost everyday and usually have to wait a good two or three minutes

Yeah I have seen it happen two or three times over the last couple of months. So I'm not sure if it happens randomly, if anyone has a contact at CDOT maybe they can ask. Also, we will see how it changes now that they've added a bike light for the new bike lanes. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by michaelef

[nakers2]

3 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Oh yeah! Great example. Always a ton of foot traffic in that area. I wonder if it would also work at Central and Pecan or if would cause issues being so close together to the other.

I actually came here to discuss another Plaza related item, the new bike lanes and street diet, I have to say it’s now one of my favorite streets in the city. There was a little jam on my drive today but that was due to a truck blocking one of the side streets due to signal work. I like how they added a separate red light at Plaza and Central as well as a bike signal to give cyclists both more protection and accountability in terms of following road laws. I think it’s another way the city is trying to legitimize cycling as a viable form of commuting.

[Cassman]

58 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

I actually came here to discuss another Plaza related item, the new bike lanes and street diet, I have to say it’s now one of my favorite streets in the city. There was a little jam on my drive today but that was due to a truck blocking one of the side streets due to signal work. I like how they added a separate red light at Plaza and Central as well as a bike signal to give cyclists both more protection and accountability in terms of following road laws. I think it’s another way the city is trying to legitimize cycling as a viable form of commuting.

Everybody come out the bike parade tomorrow to show support for even more protected bike lanes.

Also, why is no one discussing the cyclist who was killed on Harrisburg Ave.?

[Nathan2]

1 hour ago, nakers2 said:

I actually came here to discuss another Plaza related item, the new bike lanes and street diet, I have to say it’s now one of my favorite streets in the city. There was a little jam on my drive today but that was due to a truck blocking one of the side streets due to signal work. I like how they added a separate red light at Plaza and Central as well as a bike signal to give cyclists both more protection and accountability in terms of following road laws. I think it’s another way the city is trying to legitimize cycling as a viable form of commuting.

Agreed! I just wish we could do it to main streets that actually get people places like central. That section of plaza is a great start,  just wish the city would be a little more bold!

[kermit]

Don't get me wrong, I am hugely pro bike infrastructure. But....

Plaza seems like a strange place to spend city $$$ on a bike lane, it just feels like there are a very long list of other streets where they would do way more for safety and connectivity.   Thomas is a pretty fantastic parallel bike route already and Central and 10th are both super dangerous for bikers in and out of PM (and no side streets are available as substitutes from uptown).  The Plaza lanes feel like performative bike infrastructure -- the city simply took the easiest option (knowing that drivers won't beotch too much about the loss of one of two lanes on Plaza) rather than create infrastructure which would help connect our  neighborhoods. 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by kermit

[Legendoflink]

I can't believe more people have not talked about this subject but Charlotte will continue to look like a small city until commercial buildings start going up on I77 and I85. The Uptown Charlotte skyline will rival some of our most iconic cities but when you drive into town "Hey Mayberry". I'm surprised the city leaders don't do something about this. Or at least encourage growth. The commercial building on I77 South towards Carowinds with the waterfall is the type of development we should have up and down the corridors if I77 and I85.

[#1Son]

@Legendoflink Not sure how having 20 miles of eight lane interstate and 20 miles of six to ten lane interstate within 2 or 3 miles of "Downtown Mayberry" looks and feels like the area Barney Fife use to patrol.  

[DCMetroRaleigh]

4 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I can't believe more people have not talked about this subject but Charlotte will continue to look like a small city until commercial buildings start going up on I77 and I85. The Uptown Charlotte skyline will rival some of our most iconic cities but when you drive into town "Hey Mayberry". I'm surprised the city leaders don't do something about this. Or at least encourage growth. The commercial building on I77 South towards Carowinds with the waterfall is the type of development we should have up and down the corridors if I77 and I85.

Should city leader’s care about such raw superficialities?

[KJHburg]

the impression I get from many first time visitors to Charlotte is how big our city looks as you can see the skyline coming from I-85 south around Little Rock or from 77 south right at Westinghouse or from I-85 north around Mallard Creek Road not to mention some of the best views just driving by uptown on 77 or coming in from US 74 up Independence one of my favorite angles.   Charlotte surprises and while some think Charlotte is about the size of Greensboro for instance when they see our skyline they know they are  in a much bigger place.  Not to mention the view of the skyline from the airport.   There is there here for sure.  I think Charlotte surprises many people thinking they are coming to a much smaller city.  

[Crucial_Infra]

6 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I can't believe more people have not talked about this subject but Charlotte will continue to look like a small city until commercial buildings start going up on I77 and I85. The Uptown Charlotte skyline will rival some of our most iconic cities but when you drive into town "Hey Mayberry". I'm surprised the city leaders don't do something about this. Or at least encourage growth. The commercial building on I77 South towards Carowinds with the waterfall is the type of development we should have up and down the corridors if I77 and I85.

I’ll defend @legendoflink here: While I think it would be ridiculous for city leaders to get involved in this and the Mayberry comment isn’t fair, I too have always wished that more cool developments were adjacent to I- 85 and 77. That’s why I love the Refinery building at Morehead and 77 so much. Wish there was more of that stuff along 77. I-85 is already so industrial, it’s hard to see it becoming a place where office buildings dot the landscape anytime soon. 

[nakers2]

On 2/21/2020 at 3:49 PM, kermit said:

Don't get me wrong, I am hugely pro bike infrastructure. But....

Plaza seems like a strange place to spend city $$$ on a bike lane, it just feels like there are a very long list of other streets where they would do way more for safety and connectivity.   Thomas is a pretty fantastic parallel bike route already and Central and 10th are both super dangerous for bikers in and out of PM (and no side streets are available as substitutes from uptown).  The Plaza lanes feel like performative bike infrastructure -- the city simply took the easiest option (knowing that drivers won't beotch too much about the loss of one of two lanes on Plaza) rather than create infrastructure which would help connect our  neighborhoods. 

 

I’m jumping back a few comments to reply to this, as someone who lives in Plaza Midwood, and drives from University frequently, I can attest that I used to go probably about 50 down that section of the Plaza, I know it was speeding, but I wasn’t the only one, and it felt safe to do. Now it doesn’t, I haven’t broken 40. I think that’s the main thing to take away here, slowing down traffic, the bike lanes are an added touch, and are welcome IMO.

[allthingsplanes]

43 minutes ago, Crucial_Infra said:

I’ll defend @legendoflink here: While I think it would be ridiculous for city leaders to get involved in this and the Mayberry comment isn’t fair, I too have always wished that more cool developments were adjacent to I- 85 and 77. That’s why I love the Refinery building at Morehead and 77 so much. Wish there was more of that stuff along 77. I-85 is already so industrial, it’s hard to see it becoming a place where office buildings dot the landscape anytime soon. 

I will too.  I don't think 85 is the right highway for this point though as it feels very much "city" while driving down it.   Even the burbs - from Kannapolis to Concord and then down at Gastonia area - feel like what you expect in a city.  But I would agree with this assessment for 77 except for uptown and a little bit south to the state line.  And especially for 485 in many stretches (though that's probably a different consideration).  The nice tree coverage we have here masks a lot of the urban feel from the highway.  And I think that what the above post is referencing is much more about larger office buildings and/or residential complexes.  I know many on here like to argue this point, but I routinely drive through cities that are either the same size as Charlotte or even smaller and think that they feel so much more urban.  Nashville (poking that bear) is one of them.  So is Austin.  And while Atlanta is obviously so much bigger, they started somewhere and we feel behind them in this regard - anywhere you drive around Atlanta you'll see some 10-20 story buildings.  We really don't have that.

I also think that IF city leaders cared about this and wanted to do something, they would focus on building up the area by the airport on 85.  Most airports that are even smaller have a clearly marked interchange sending traffic to the airport without stopping at the underpass.  We barely have any signage, especially with airport information (terminals/concourses/airlines/etc.).

[tozmervo]

I don't want to see the city from the highways, because that means the city is looking back at (and hearing) highways. 

[kermit]

^ I agree. Lots of evidence is emerging that it is a public health hazard to have people spending time adjacent to high volume roads (both from 'traditional' emissions and from things like break and tire dust) -- we would be genuinely foolish to encourage development adjacent to our interstates now. Beyond the health issues, noise is a significant quality of life issue. I think we are lucky that our interstates don't cut through the center of town (like Atlanta).

There are some pretty sweet vistas of uptown from 77 from both directions, particularly at night.

Edited February 25, 2020 by kermit

[tozmervo]

On another topic: does anyone know how the new "Continuous Flow Intersection" at Brookshire & 485 has been performing? 

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

On another topic: does anyone know how the new "Continuous Flow Intersection" at Brookshire & 485 has been performing? 

I have been through it a couple of times since my first visit it does seem to move the traffic better and with all the signage I dont think there have been many problems with it.  

On the other question want to impress someone take them on a continuous loop of 277/77 starting at John Belk which I call "you ain't in Mayberry anymore view " and called it that for years then continue around then take Brookshire to 85 N then hop on the 77 express lanes and fly over 277/77 interchange.   As for Nashville since you are going average 25 mph through downtown easy to see every nook and cranny and I am only slightly exaggerating.  I saw a photo from 1970 and one from 2019 of I-24 and I=40 split and guess what the highway has not changed one bit!  

as for I-35 in Austin which goes right by downtown Austin north and south there is not many highrises outside of the downtown loop.  I would rather have a huge vertical central city than buildings spread out around the perimeter of the city.  Believe once you hit Rock Hill on 77 you know the you are approaching a big city the traffic increases exponentially.  

from working some at the airport I can tell you people are SURPRISED at the size of our airport too. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by KJHburg

[C85]

12 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I can't believe more people have not talked about this subject but Charlotte will continue to look like a small city until commercial buildings start going up on I77 and I85. The Uptown Charlotte skyline will rival some of our most iconic cities but when you drive into town "Hey Mayberry". I'm surprised the city leaders don't do something about this. Or at least encourage growth. The commercial building on I77 South towards Carowinds with the waterfall is the type of development we should have up and down the corridors if I77 and I85.

You seriously made an account just to bash Charlotte??

[allthingsplanes]

How in the world is that “bashing” Charlotte?  I have been reading this site for a long time and posting occasionally and I still shake my head at times.  Some people on here live in a liberal utopia (and I am liberal) and don’t realize that some of the thoughts put forward by the left regarding suburbia  and anyone who drives a car just drive more people over to the crazy Trump faction.  Why do you see this post as bashing Charlotte?  It was this person’s opinion as to what they would like to see in terms of development along the highways.  

[KJHburg]

San Antonio on its Loop 410 looks like a much larger city than Charlotte because of midrise 10-15 story office towers along it and I-10 west HOWEVER all that suburban growth had a cost:  San Antonio waited 30 years! for its first office tower downtown because of all that growth sucked office tenants out of the  central city.  Now the tide has turned there however Charlotte has always had a  much higher percentage of its total office market uptown.  So here in the southeast only Atlanta and Miami are our rivals in skylines and we have many more high rise office towers than Miami does as much of their highrises are residential or hotels.    Plus our  485 loop much later in our city's growth than most cities as the last stretch was completed only a few years ago.   I understand the posters point but I guess I would object to the word Mayberry being used to this city.  

[NCMike1990]

I can kind of see Legendoflink's point, but have to agree with KJ and others on the wording.

This is Mayberry?? C'mon! LOL

 

 

 

[nyxmike]

The darkness on highways/interchanges around Uptown is a bigger pet peeve for me vs. buildings lining the highway. 

[ertley]

Rather than Mayberry,  there's an analogy with better resonance, I think--from an article about Charlotte in the weeks leading up to the 2012 Democratic Convention (if I remember correctly)--comparing the city to "Oz," as a place that suddenly appears from  a verdant vista. 

I understand where @Legendoflink is coming from, that Charlotte may appear to casual observers, those just driving through, as not rivaling Atlanta, Chicago, yada yada, in terms of its mass and density. It's tricky, though, because so often--take a drive on any freeway in and around New York City to really understand what I'm talking about--that build up around interstates can end up being less than salubrious, which as @kermit pointed out, data support.

Since I 85 is a lost cause already, I say, "whatever." But I think not having massive build up along 77 is a good thing, principally because those of us of or from the city know it drives very nearby some really good, and those with potential to be so, neighborhoods.

Personally, I think Charlotte should re-invigorate an awareness campaign of its status as leading tree canopy and ratio-to-people city, so that folks just driving through understand that it's the reason the city appears like Oz out of limitless stretches of green (in the summer, at least).

Edited February 26, 2020 by ertley

[go_vertical]

I guess I'll jump in too. I also understand the point of view but think "Mayberry" was a little much. I-85 is fairly built up but I've seen similar types of density on I-95 in Florida in between metros where there was seemingly not much else around. Now I-77 is where I see their point. When passing through the south side of town (and the north side up until the toll lane construction) you wouldn't know you are in a city of nearly a million people. To be honest I think south 77 doesn't look too much different than driving through Winston Salem or Columbia. 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

On 1/25/2020 at 9:45 AM, cowboy_wilhelm said:

[...]

But speaking of incentives, highways are also incentives. North Carolina (and other states) hand out hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tax incentives to private companies to get them to locate here. And it’s a competition now. If you don’t offer incentives, the company goes elsewhere. It’s the same with highways. If there isn’t a highway (often times an Interstate highway), the company looks elsewhere, whether that’s in another state or within the same state. At least highways are an incentive that serves the entire population versus tax breaks for massive corporations.

Let's take U.S. 74 and Cleveland County for example. There is lots of new industrial development on the western end of the Shelby bypass that hasn’t even opened yet. The Walmart distribution center was built there in the mid-2000’s because of the promise of a bypass. Will these “save” the county’s economy? No. Would they have built there without the highway? Probably not. At least they're jobs.

Then again, it’s amazing that any company takes North Carolina or the NCDOT seriously when it takes nearly 50 years to go from concept to completion of an 18-mile highway bypass.

How Shelby bypass project could drive development in region - WSOC
Full article from Charlotte Business Journal with potential pay wall: How the Shelby bypass project could affect development in Cleveland County

Coincidence? Or is there a reporter amongst us...?
<.<
>.>