Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[NcSc74]

On 2/26/2020 at 8:42 AM, go_vertical said:

I guess I'll jump in too. I also understand the point of view but think "Mayberry" was a little much. I-85 is fairly built up but I've seen similar types of density on I-95 in Florida in between metros where there was seemingly not much else around. Now I-77 is where I see their point. When passing through the south side of town (and the north side up until the toll lane construction) you wouldn't know you are in a city of nearly a million people. To be honest I think south 77 doesn't look too much different than driving through Winston Salem or Columbia. 

Trees.....trees obscure the eye candy.  Look at Google Earth and you will see there are mid rises nestled within the foliage and I guess some NC building code or soemthing that most developmet must be hidden by a stand of trees and offset from the road.  Not saying its true its just my observation.  Just like RTP, there numerous mid rise buildings tucked away in the pines that a driver or passenger can't see.  Yeah, when I'm bored at work I cruise around google earth comparing cities, ports, rivers all kinds of things.  Been a passion of mine since I was a kid.  My family made the holiday trek to Orange, New Jersey every Christmas and NC has always lagged when it came to any kind of urban infrastructure.  I blame the three metro areas of similar size at the time that competed for dollars.

[Cassman]

Maybe I'm missing the trees for the forest here, but why do we care about whether a city "looks" big to highway traffic?  Shouldn't the development patterns of a city respond to the needs and desires of the actual people who use those developments, as opposed to the people who drive by them?  I think the Refinery is where it is because the land price was right for being "in" Wesley Heights while also very accessible to uptown and the highway -- not because of how it looks to traffic on the highway.  I haven't personally been up there, but if anything I would think it's location next to a highway is actually a detriment that renders the rooftop space less pleasant and usable than it otherwise would be if the building were located another block or two to the west.

[Nolan]

I’m glad 77 South isn’t built up and surrounded by industrial buildings, or midrises, otherwise the price tag of the 2029 widening will probably doubled, its already at a $1B 

[DCMetroRaleigh]

8 hours ago, Cassman said:

Maybe I'm missing the trees for the forest here, but why do we care about whether a city "looks" big to highway traffic?  Shouldn't the development patterns of a city respond to the needs and desires of the actual people who use those developments, as opposed to the people who drive by them?  I think the Refinery is where it is because the land price was right for being "in" Wesley Heights while also very accessible to uptown and the highway -- not because of how it looks to traffic on the highway.  I haven't personally been up there, but if anything I would think it's location next to a highway is actually a detriment that renders the rooftop space less pleasant and usable than it otherwise would be if the building were located another block or two to the west.

Amen

[NcSc74]

13 hours ago, Cassman said:

Maybe I'm missing the trees for the forest here, but why do we care about whether a city "looks" big to highway traffic?  Shouldn't the development patterns of a city respond to the needs and desires of the actual people who use those developments, as opposed to the people who drive by them?  I think the Refinery is where it is because the land price was right for being "in" Wesley Heights while also very accessible to uptown and the highway -- not because of how it looks to traffic on the highway.  I haven't personally been up there, but if anything I would think it's location next to a highway is actually a detriment that renders the rooftop space less pleasant and usable than it otherwise would be if the building were located another block or two to the west.

I agree, just giving my opinion on why one person commented on the 'Mayberry" vibe around the metro area.  IMO, trees give Charlotte a unique factor that other places would like.  I just don't agree with NCDOT and its ancient way of building urban infrastructure.  Now it seems cities are looking to not build large road projects in favor of mass transit alts..   In that case CLT was ahead od her time.

[Legendoflink]

Whoa, maybe I came off a little brash with the "Mayberry" comment. I am Mr. Charlotte. I luv the city and the growth. I moved to Charlotte from Raleigh in "95" because of the Panthers. I remember driving the Brookshire looking at the massive crater before anything was erected.  In my opinion coming up north 85 from the Gaston County line makes Charlotte look like a small town. If you look at Orlando, Dallas, Atl they have plenty of development along the interstate corridors and it looks pleasing to the eye. I think 85 and 77 corridors are prime real estate for either high rise condos or class A office space. I'm living in Toronto now but I still keep tabs on my city! I am new to Urban Planet. I thought I would be receiving emails if I got any comments but I guess I'll just keep checking back.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Legendoflink

[Scribe]

I don't want Charlotte to be anything like Atlanta... I like the current pace of development in the QC.  We  don't have to fit some mold of development that was used elsewhere.

I feel like Charlotte might finally be getting out of the funk of trying to compare itself to Atlanta for EVERY single point of discussion (a la late '90s into '00s)

[Legendoflink]

8 hours ago, Scribe said:

I don't want Charlotte to be anything like Atlanta... I like the current pace of development in the QC.  We  don't have to fit some mold of development that was used elsewhere.

I feel like Charlotte might finally be getting out of the funk of trying to compare itself to Atlanta for EVERY single point of discussion (a la late '90s into '00s)

The pic is of Toronto which incorporates very smart growth policies and there are plenty of hotels, condos, class A office space aligned near highways and byways. I also think Charlotte is unique or rather still can be unique regarding the amount of trees if they would still incorporate more development along the interstate corridors. IMHO Charlotte looks unbalanced without this type of development.  "Mayberry" maybe was a little to harsh but to me development along the interstate corridors just makes sense. When people drive into Charlotte and they see development along the interstate corridors to me it gives more of a city feel rather than a small city or town feel.

[KJHburg]

FYI post.  It took 5 weeks for my FTE Florida Turnpike Enterprise tolls to post on my NC QuickPass account.  This was from the Bee Line toll highway near Orlando.   My NC tolls post usually within a day.   I was also charged as a motorcycle one time on I-77 not sure how that happened and that was a free ride. Like any bill I read it too make sure I am not wrongly charged.  They do break down so many segments on 77 and on the Monroe Expressway it is 30 cents here 40 cents there for example. 

[15895]

On 3/3/2020 at 9:14 PM, Legendoflink said:

The pic is of Toronto which incorporates very smart growth policies and there are plenty of hotels, condos, class A office space aligned near highways and byways. I also think Charlotte is unique or rather still can be unique regarding the amount of trees if they would still incorporate more development along the interstate corridors. IMHO Charlotte looks unbalanced without this type of development.  "Mayberry" maybe was a little to harsh but to me development along the interstate corridors just makes sense. When people drive into Charlotte and they see development along the interstate corridors to me it gives more of a city feel rather than a small city or town feel.

DC is the same. I wouldn’t call it Mayberry. Leave the city limits and it feels like you’re in the middle of nowhere sometimes. GW Parkway, BW Parkway. 66 doesn’t show you much of Arlington at all, 495 is trees and at best and a good view of Tyson’s in one area.  295 in DC is lined with trees.   
 
etc. etc. 

 

[Legendoflink]

I think one day it might click for the ones that can't see the forest for the trees (pun intended). If you don't get the feeling that Charlotte  feels like a small town rather than a mid-large city because of the lack of development along the highway corridors maybe you haven't been out of Charlotte. But uptown is looking good. Now get those corridors developed ASAP! We want condos, hotels, class A office space. Let's get it together Charlotte. Time to grow up!

Edited March 10, 2020 by Legendoflink

[Norm2]

7 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I think one day it might click for the ones that can't see the forest for the trees (pun intended). If you don't get the feeling that Charlotte  feels like a small town rather than a mid-large city because of the lack of development along the highway corridors maybe you haven't been out of Charlotte. But uptown is looking good. Now get those corridors developed ASAP! We want condos, hotels, class A office space. Let's get it together Charlotte. Time to grow up!

Charlotte has development along the interstates, especially on 77.  77 through has trees between the interstate and development, giving the appearance of driving through a forest. I for one, would rather not lose this.

[jthomas]

7 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I think one day it might click for the ones that can't see the forest for the trees (pun intended). If you don't get the feeling that Charlotte  feels like a small town rather than a mid-large city because of the lack of development along the highway corridors maybe you haven't been out of Charlotte. But uptown is looking good. Now get those corridors developed ASAP! We want condos, hotels, class A office space. Let's get it together Charlotte. Time to grow up!

With any luck, "highway visibility" will get consigned to the dustbin of history as a relic of 20th century thinking. The best parts of any city are away from the highway, and are best experienced on foot rather than through a windshield.

[JorgiPorgi]

22 hours ago, Legendoflink said:

I think one day it might click for the ones that can't see the forest for the trees (pun intended). If you don't get the feeling that Charlotte  feels like a small town rather than a mid-large city because of the lack of development along the highway corridors maybe you haven't been out of Charlotte. But uptown is looking good. Now get those corridors developed ASAP! We want condos, hotels, class A office space. Let's get it together Charlotte. Time to grow up!

Bahaha, your posts are comical. Charlotte is one of the fastest growing cities in the US, and has had rather smart growth in it's urban center-much more than comparable cities of the same size, and you are begging for Atlanta/Houston-esque interstate/sprawl development? Nah, you can keep that. It's not smart, it's not "urban". It doesn't help with the aesthetics of the city. Charlotte is doing great with it's inner core, and hopefully it doesn't become your idea of what a big city 'should' be. You're in the minority there, and I can guarantee you that most of the members of this website have been to many Large cities around the globe. 

[southslider]

The area along 85 near Sugar Creek could use some trees to hide its built environment. 

[Skyybutter]

On 3/3/2020 at 3:57 AM, Legendoflink said:

Whoa, maybe I came off a little brash with the "Mayberry" comment. I am Mr. Charlotte. I luv the city and the growth. I moved to Charlotte from Raleigh in "95" because of the Panthers. I remember driving the Brookshire looking at the massive crater before anything was erected.  In my opinion coming up north 85 from the Gaston County line makes Charlotte look like a small town. If you look at Orlando, Dallas, Atl they have plenty of development along the interstate corridors and it looks pleasing to the eye. I think 85 and 77 corridors are prime real estate for either high rise condos or class A office space. I'm living in Toronto now but I still keep tabs on my city! I am new to Urban Planet. I thought I would be receiving emails if I got any comments but I guess I'll just keep checking back.

I agree 100%. Personally I enjoy seeing the mid rise buildings while driving 85 and 285 in Atlanta.  It sorta builds excitement because you know Buckhead, Midtown and Downtown are just ahead. My .02

[JacksonH]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:28 AM, Legendoflink said:

I think one day it might click for the ones that can't see the forest for the trees (pun intended). If you don't get the feeling that Charlotte  feels like a small town rather than a mid-large city because of the lack of development along the highway corridors maybe you haven't been out of Charlotte. But uptown is looking good. Now get those corridors developed ASAP! We want condos, hotels, class A office space. Let's get it together Charlotte. Time to grow up!

Sorry.  I sincerely hope Charlotte declines to take your advice.  And I'm speaking as someone who has spent most of my life living outside of Charlotte.  I've lived in the NE and SW, and I've visited most major U.S. cities and many international cities.   What you're describing is the 1960s to 1980s suburban sprawl that has turned the large "cities" in the South into traffic nightmares and diminished the quality of life in those places, and weakened the potential of their urban cores.  It's called bad planning.  Bring all that development into Uptown, not along the highways.

On 3/13/2020 at 12:32 AM, Skyybutter said:

I agree 100%. Personally I enjoy seeing the mid rise buildings while driving 85 and 285 in Atlanta.  It sorta builds excitement because you know Buckhead, Midtown and Downtown are just ahead. My .02

Ugh.  Please, enough about Atlanta.  That car-dependent mess only seems to impress people in the South.  Do better, Charlotte.

Edited March 16, 2020 by JacksonH

[JacksonH]

On 3/11/2020 at 1:30 AM, southslider said:

The area along 85 near Sugar Creek could use some trees to hide its built environment. 

Haha, yes!  That's the ugliest part of 85.  Cover it, cover it.

[KJHburg]

Whilst in the area picking up a dozen of America's finest sweetest doughnuts I  noticed the flyover construction at Concord Mills is in full swing.  Pilings  for the flyover bridge rising.  Very light traffic on Concord Mills Blvd but on the interstates traffic seems very normal but I am hearing from ATL that traffic is way down this week.  Check out these photos:

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/3/16/21182668/coronavirus-atlanta-traffic-covid-19-travel-restrictions

Edited March 18, 2020 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

as I was travelling down the non tolled lanes of I-77 that are still in need of the final pavement I wish they could do it this week when the traffic is such much lighter.   The temperatures should be fine if the rain holds off.  

Photos from today of the Concord Mills entrance flyover ramp construction.  

[Skyybutter]

On 3/15/2020 at 11:50 PM, JacksonH said:

Sorry.  I sincerely hope Charlotte declines to take your advice.  And I'm speaking as someone who has spent most of my life living outside of Charlotte.  I've lived in the NE and SW, and I've visited most major U.S. cities and many international cities.   What you're describing is the 1960s to 1980s suburban sprawl that has turned the large "cities" in the South into traffic nightmares and diminished the quality of life in those places, and weakened the potential of their urban cores.  It's called bad planning.  Bring all that development into Uptown, not along the highways.

Ugh.  Please, enough about Atlanta.  That car-dependent mess only seems to impress people in the South.  Do better, Charlotte.

I've lived in Philly, DC, Pittsburgh  and visited every "major" city in the US as well... London, Rio, and Munich.

Anywho,  the NE cities have sprawl like the S. Of course the PT is much better up N.

LA is a complete design failure imo.

 SF, PDF, and SEA are most pleasant.

 Regarding Southern sprawl... It's like bragging rights almost to see who has the most congestion.  Not sure why...But it is what it is.

  Having said that..Charlotte is leaning more towards Portland OR then Atlanta as far as development imo. I think it will land in the middle of the two. 

On 3/18/2020 at 11:50 AM, KJHburg said:

Whilst in the area picking up a dozen of America's finest sweetest doughnuts I  noticed the flyover construction at Concord Mills is in full swing.  Pilings  for the flyover bridge rising.  Very light traffic on Concord Mills Blvd but on the interstates traffic seems very normal but I am hearing from ATL that traffic is way down this week.  Check out these photos:

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2020/3/16/21182668/coronavirus-atlanta-traffic-covid-19-travel-restrictions

Drove into Charlotte around 2 pm yesterday and the I's were pretty busy I thought. Was surprised actually.  Independence was busy as well. No break tapping,  but busy.

[kermit]

Cintra toll lane bankruptcy filing in 3,2,1...

[tozmervo]

9 minutes ago, kermit said:

Cintra toll lane bankruptcy filing in 3,2,1...

I've wondered about that. Presumably they're still being fined by ncdot, on top of toll revenue evaporating

[kermit]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

I've wondered about that. Presumably they're still being fined by ncdot, on top of toll revenue evaporating

Interwebs scuttlebutt is they just hired a new lobbyist to push for a chunk of the next bailout.

Northmeck taxpayers may get to pay for the lanes twice...

Edited March 28, 2020 by kermit

[#1Son]

Is this filing really a surprise?  WidenI-77.net, started documenting the corruption of Cintra in 2012 IIRC. Just follow the money from Spain, to Austin, TX to Charlotte, NC. Same pattern create a shell company, take out hundreds of millions in government backed loans. Partially construct the designed highway, file for bankruptcy. Rinse, wash repeat. This should have been canceled in 2012 but it wasn't and now we have a beautiful highway that benefits 5 to 10% of the people who use the highway at most. Yea NCDOT!!!