Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[KJHburg]

Just saying

[CLT>]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:50 PM, JRNYP2C said:

So when does it become a necessary thing for them to mow grass or clean up debris?  Is there a definition by NCDOT that would require them to do so - like a blockage of line of sight for driving purposes, or an impediment for right of way driving?  Not sure if i'm making a sane point here.  I mean what is the high water mark for them to mow the grass?  Does it have to be 3 feet high?

Contact them. If there are enough complaints they will come cut it. They did it along certain portions of the Brookshire Exit lanes a couple weeks ago, but only cut about 2' off the curb and only after many complaints.

https://www.ncdot.gov/contact/Pages/default.aspx

If you see someone littering use this:

https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-policies/environmental/litter-management/Pages/swat-a-litterbug-report.aspx

If there is high grass on private property in the City of Charlotte:

https://servicerequest.charlottenc.gov/service/MISCCOMM

or download the CLT+ App

[nicholas]

I hope that the crisis NCDOT is dealing with will help it realize that it needs to stop building new roads and interstates every freaking where.  Yes, there are still a couple of regions that should have seamless interstate connectivity - Asheville to Charlotte, and Charlotte to Wilmington - but beyond that, we're approaching seriously diminished returns.  I mean do we really need a loop around Fayetteville or Winston-Salem, or need to rebuild part of a loop around Asheville???

A roughly 11 mile stretch of I-40 was recently completely rebuilt on the south side of Raleigh at a cost of roughly $200M, and now a roughly 5 mile stretch of I-440 on the west side of Raleigh is being rebuilt at a cost of about $475M.  It's going to be more of the same in the coming decades, but we can at least stop making it worse by not building new roads everywhere that only perpetuate these problems.

[davidclt]

New Phase II survey up for Beyond 77. 

https://publicinput.com/beyond77

[KJHburg]

I stand by my prediction that the 485 express lanes will be finished before 77 express lanes are officially complete. 

Yesterday and today along 485 south near Providence Rd and Matthews exit. 

 

[kermit]

A nice story on the shortcomings of Travel Demand Models (the four step traffic forecasting process used to justify road construction). It also provides some background on why TDMs are so bad at forecasting transit demand (the models were calibrated in 1950s Detroit!)

 

 

[sakami]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

A nice story on the shortcomings of Travel Demand Models (the four step traffic forecasting process used to justify road construction). It also provides some background on why TDMs are so bad at forecasting transit demand (the models were calibrated in 1950s Detroit!)

 

 

This was a great read. Thank you for sharing it. 

[elrodvt]

Great story. 485=induced demand. Build it and they'll come. Then build it bigger. Rinse repeat. No learning.

[Skyybutter]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:01 PM, elrodvt said:

Great story. 485=induced demand. Build it and they'll come. Then build it bigger. Rinse repeat. No learning.

The exact same thing happened on 85. From say Ikea Blvd up to Lane Street in Kannapolis.  Having been complete for just a handful of years...like you said..build it and they will come....and they are still coming!

[KJHburg]

interesting NCDOT won a few industry awards for use of drones,  and some bridge replacements including the new Oregon Inlet bridge which I went over last Dec and it was beautiful but with fog right at the inlet I did not see anything but the road ahead!

NC is in the southern region.  and check out the roundabouts in Montana of all places that won an award nice interchange rebuild. 

https://americastransportationawards.org/

[Third Strike]

Random question: how far away have some of you seen Charlotte show up on interstate/highway signage? The furthest I’ve seen a reference to Charlotte was on I-81 in Virginia near the I-77 interchange. 
 

I’m also reminded how Atlanta was a control city on signage in Petersburg VA., near where I-85 begins, seven hours away from the actual city. 

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, Third Strike said:

Random question: how far away have some of you seen Charlotte show up on interstate/highway signage? The furthest I’ve seen a reference to Charlotte was on I-81 in Virginia near the I-77 interchange. 
 

I’m also reminded how Atlanta was a control city on signage in Petersburg VA., near where I-85 begins, seven hours away from the actual city. 

Seen the I-85 Atlanta sign in Petersburg no reference to any NC city but for Charlotte seen it in Columbia on I-26 at entrance to 77.  But not sure what is further.  Have seen the Wilmington NC sign in Barstow CA at the start or end of I-40. 

[DCMetroRaleigh]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Seen the I-85 Atlanta sign in Petersburg no reference to any NC city but for Charlotte seen it in Columbia on I-26 at entrance to 77.  But not sure what is further.  Have seen the Wilmington NC sign in Barstow CA at the start or end of I-40. 

Yeah that Atlanta sign in Petersburg is an insult to North Carolina

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Does said I-85 sign pre-date Google Street View imagery? In 2007, the I-85 sign included Durham and Atlanta, and the I-95 sign included Rocky Mount and Miami. They were updated in 2014 or 2015 to only reference Rocky Mount and Durham. Or am I looking at the wrong sign?

Miami is a bit of a stretch, but I think VDOT was intentionally trying to emphasize two similarly numbered highways going two very different directions. Everyone knows Miami and Atlanta. Durham and Rocky Mount aren't going to mean anything to snow birds traveling from New York to Florida.

I think North Carolina uses too many small, unknown towns as control "cities" on their signs. I was just checking U.S. 74 from Wilmington and west for any reference to Charlotte, and everything is Leland, Whiteville, Lumberton, Rockingham, and Wadesboro. I got turned around once in Greenville at the 264 interchange because the exit says it's for Wilson. Where is Wilson?! I'm trying to get to Raleigh. In my defense, I came out 64 and was going back on 264, so I really had no idea where Wilson was.

Edited August 30, 2020 by cowboy_wilhelm

[DownEast]

The signs are exactly the same.  They've been that way at least since the mid-90's.  The mention of Atlanta and Miami are as extreme as control cities get on the east coast for distance. Always love seeing Durham on there without Raleigh though. And for small NC control cities, the winner is Benson. To be fair, that dates back to when it was the terminus of I-40.

Edited August 30, 2020 by DownEast

[DCMetroRaleigh]

6 hours ago, cowboy_wilhelm said:

Does said I-85 sign pre-date Google Street View imagery? In 2007, the I-85 sign included Durham and Atlanta, and the I-95 sign included Rocky Mount and Miami. They were updated in 2014 or 2015 to only reference Rocky Mount and Durham. Or am I looking at the wrong sign?

Miami is a bit of a stretch, but I think VDOT was intentionally trying to emphasize two similarly numbered highways going two very different directions. Everyone knows Miami and Atlanta. Durham and Rocky Mount aren't going to mean anything to snow birds traveling from New York to Florida.

I think North Carolina uses too many small, unknown towns as control "cities" on their signs. I was just checking U.S. 74 from Wilmington and west for any reference to Charlotte, and everything is Leland, Whiteville, Lumberton, Rockingham, and Wadesboro. I got turned around once in Greenville at the 264 interchange because the exit says it's for Wilson. Where is Wilson?! I'm trying to get to Raleigh. In my defense, I came out 64 and was going back on 264, so I really had no idea where Wilson was.

Uh Wilson is a major city and destination in the region in which that sign is located.

[KJHburg]

I am telling you I-485 expansion and express lanes are moving along fast.  Between Providence Rd and Independence Blvd US 74. 

[tozmervo]

It might be done before the I-77 express project, where they are still doing final surfacing.

[nyxmike]

35 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

It might be done before the I-77 express project, where they are still doing final surfacing.

So much for public/private partnerships right? 

[kickazzz2000]

On 8/29/2020 at 10:57 AM, Third Strike said:

Random question: how far away have some of you seen Charlotte show up on interstate/highway signage? The furthest I’ve seen a reference to Charlotte was on I-81 in Virginia near the I-77 interchange. 
 

I’m also reminded how Atlanta was a control city on signage in Petersburg VA., near where I-85 begins, seven hours away from the actual city. 

North Carolina's control cities were always a pet peeve of mine.  Some examples:   

85 south to 485:  Rock Hill

85 North to 485:  Says Huntersville/Matthews, then once you take the exit, it says Columbia/Statesville.  Totally confusing.

74E to 485:  Greensboro/Columbia (makes sense, Atlanta style) but then switches to Pineville/Huntersville once you take the exit and encounter the split.

Meanwhile, in the Midwest, St. Louis has control cities hundreds of miles away (Tulsa, Kansas City, Chicago, Memphis).  In Chicago, 57 south is labeled as Memphis.

While this may be extreme, I think the middle ground of 285 in Atlanta is the best practice.  Any exit onto 285 is labeled as the next two interstates control cities in any given direction:  85S to 285 on the north side (spaghetti junction) is Augusta/Macon and Chattanooga/Birmingham.  Hitting it from I-20W you get Greenville/Chattanooga, and Macon/Montgomery.  For travelers unfamiliar with the area, it at least gives some sense of direction.  A whole lot more than if it said Alpharetta/Stone Mountain or some NCish nonsense like that.  As if anyone cares where Rock Hill and Statesville are

On 8/30/2020 at 10:12 AM, cowboy_wilhelm said:

 

I think North Carolina uses too many small, unknown towns as control "cities" on their signs. I was just checking U.S. 74 from Wilmington and west for any reference to Charlotte, and everything is Leland, Whiteville, Lumberton, Rockingham, and Wadesboro. 

Super annoying.  Meanwhile all references to I-40 in the Wilmington area are Raleigh Raleigh Raleigh Raleigh (as they should be)

[KJHburg]

[rancenc]

On 8/29/2020 at 10:57 AM, Third Strike said:

Random question: how far away have some of you seen Charlotte show up on interstate/highway signage? The furthest I’ve seen a reference to Charlotte was on I-81 in Virginia near the I-77 interchange. 
 

I’m also reminded how Atlanta was a control city on signage in Petersburg VA., near where I-85 begins, seven hours away from the actual city. 

To be honest, drivers don't even pay attention to the road signs directing them to their exits (based on the sudden lane changes I see all the time), much less paying attention to how many miles the next major city will be!

 

[KJHburg]

I-485 widening and express lanes construction yesterday.   Lots of work at the Matthew exit 52 interchange.  From Friday.

Here is the DOT maps of the segments.

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-485-express-lanes/Pages/2019-preconstruction-open-house-maps.aspx

 

[rancenc]

Thanks for the road construction pictures KJHburg.....I can save gas money with your up to date info on road projects throughout the metro!

[kermit]

More auto dependence leads to crappier restaurants: https://cityobservatory.org/how-driving-ruins-local-flavor/

(at least we are doing better than Nashville!)