Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Havemercy]

27 minutes ago, cowboy_wilhelm said:

or is the NCDOT obsolete ??? 

They are incompetent.   Especially when it comes to addressing the needs of the state's large urban centers.  

[rancenc]

Recent episode of "Carolina Impact" on WTVI.

 

[Reverie39]

Bit of a side question. I had always just, without really thinking, operated under the assumption that most of the Northeast and all the really big cities of the US had tons and tons of express lanes (and/or high-occupancy toll lanes). Probably because there are so many in DC, which is a city I frequent - just figured that anything north of it as well as all big cities would have them. And that Charlotte was just emulating that.

But seems like that's not actually the case? I thought about visits to Boston and New York City in the past, didn't really see any. The Wikipedia article for these types of lanes doesn't cite too many examples; aside from the DC area, and some in California/Texas (Charlotte is actually listed as one of the examples too). 

So is Charlotte actually a bit of a "pioneer" or unique in this regard? 

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, Reverie39 said:

Bit of a side question. I had always just, without really thinking, operated under the assumption that most of the Northeast and all the really big cities of the US had tons and tons of express lanes (and/or high-occupancy toll lanes). Probably because there are so many in DC, which is a city I frequent - just figured that anything north of it as well as all big cities would have them. And that Charlotte was just emulating that.

But seems like that's not actually the case? I thought about visits to Boston and New York City in the past, didn't really see any. The Wikipedia article for these types of lanes doesn't cite too many examples; aside from the DC area, and some in California/Texas (Charlotte is actually listed as one of the examples too). 

So is Charlotte actually a bit of a "pioneer" or unique in this regard? 

No not really as you mentioned Texas has them everywhere and so does Southern California.  Miami has long had them as well and they popping up elsewhere all over Florida.  First time I ever saw some was the 91 Freeway from Riverside County into Orange County CA.  The first time I ever heard dynamic pricing for lanes and this is where they came from in this country pretty sure Southern California.    Atlanta has had them before Charlotte too.   There is no room for them in NYC Boston corridor.  But they have toll highways everywhere look at the NJ Turnpike paralleling I-95 in northern NJ.    But the king of toll roads is northeast for sure.   With northeast residents moving south and need for new highways in the southeast tolls have followed.  

I think NC saw them being implemented all over Atlanta and Texas and thought it would be a good idea.  I am going to Miami soon and will be using their toll express lanes for sure even on Saturday as I-95 southbound is so congested even on Saturday into Miami Dade. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by KJHburg

[TheMightyBK]

No not really as you mentioned Texas has them everywhere and so does Southern California.  Miami has long had them as well and they popping up elsewhere all over Florida.  First time I ever saw some was the 91 Freeway from Riverside County into Orange County CA.  The first time I ever heard dynamic pricing for lanes and this is where they came from in this country pretty sure Southern California.    Atlanta has had them before Charlotte too.   There is no room for them in NYC Boston corridor.  But they have toll highways everywhere look at the NJ Turnpike paralleling I-95 in northern NJ.    But the king of toll roads is northeast for sure.   With northeast residents moving south and need for new highways in the southeast tolls have followed.  
I think NC saw them being implemented all over Atlanta and Texas and thought it would be a good idea.  I am going to Miami soon and will be using their toll express lanes for sure even on Saturday as I-95 southbound is so congested even on Saturday into Miami Dade. 

I remember it being pretty controversial when the idea to “privatize” 77 started being tossed around- but I think it’s working out well? I haven’t read of much dissatisfaction with the *is it Spanish?* company who I think built it out north of 85. I am not local any longer so I don’t have any insight- are you folks happy with the arrangement of a private company maintaining that stretch of interstate, the quality of work they did and are continuing to do, dynamic tolling and so on? Just curious


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[KJHburg]

People still have concerns about Cintra the Spanish company that developed the 77 express lanes but these partnerships are coming more common around the US.   Some of the stipulations in the contract about not being able to add free lanes etc was the sticking points and the overall presence of toll lanes.  However NC DOT has made it clear any expansion south of uptown will be tolled express lanes the question will the state totally build them or will they partner with a company like Cintra again to build them quicker.   The city of Charlotte with their votes on the MPO supported the toll express lanes which the northern Meck towns vigorously opposed and this animosity along with the Red Line is why the northern part of Meck is so suspicious of anything Charlotte pushes like the new transit plans.     But usage of these toll lanes has gone way up since the end of the pandemic and lot of people passing through from states with lots of toll road hop on them I have noticed.  I personally pop on and off depending on the traffic and how quick I need to be somewhere.  There are certain places where it clogs up then frees up both north bound and southbound.   

But tolled express lanes are here to stay in the big metro areas of NC.  

[videtur quam contuor]

The I-85 South to 77 South transition has long been a wicked and unsafe feeling interchange and I always use the toll portion of that because of the sense that the merging lanes and lost lanes and high speeds are a fright along with the trucks. And general incompetent drivers which, in my experience, tend to avoid toll lanes.

[kermit]

53 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

The I-85 South to 77 South transition has long been a wicked and unsafe feeling interchange and I always use the toll portion of that because of the sense that the merging lanes and lost lanes and high speeds are a fright along with the trucks. And general incompetent drivers which, in my experience, tend to avoid toll lanes.

I really feel like this ramp has gotten much more dangerous since the toll lanes were built. Its rare that I don’t see a backup (and stopped cars on the blind curve) when merging onto 77 South these days. Backups onto 85 South from ramp slowness also seem increasingly common.

Edited January 5, 2023 by kermit

[ArchiCLT]

55 minutes ago, kermit said:

I really feel like this ramp has gotten much more dangerous since the toll lanes were built. Its rare that I don’t see a backup (and stopped cars on the blind curve) when merging onto 77. Backups onto 85 South from ramp slowness also seem increasingly common.

It's a shame that I-85 S to I-77 S still merges down to just ONE lane, after all of the toll redesign. It never addressed the actual problem. A tractor trailer overturned just yesterday:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/crash-involving-overturned-vehicle-closes-ramp-at-i-77s-to-i-85s-exit-38-medic/275-972712fd-ab87-4ca3-98b7-751662b2bdee

[Reverie39]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

But tolled express lanes are here to stay in the big metro areas of NC.  

Are they being implemented anywhere in NC outside of Charlotte?

[Third Strike]

41 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

Are they being implemented anywhere in NC outside of Charlotte?

I believe I saw a submission for express lanes in the Triangle area. Might have been for I-40, I-440 or I-540. 

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Are they being implemented anywhere in NC outside of Charlotte?

Not yet but talked about on I-40 between Raleigh and RTP.   They have many more miles of toll roads than we do with NC 147 and NC 540 beltway. 

[urbanlover568]

Quick PSA

[Windsurfer]

4 hours ago, urbanlover568 said:

Quick PSA

Unless you're on I-77 and want to go NW out of uptown.

[Reverie39]

5 hours ago, urbanlover568 said:

Quick PSA

However bad you think it is in Charlotte/NC, I promise you it's worse in Virginia. I don't know who taught Virginians how to drive, but half of them want to sit in the left lane of rural 2-lane freeways going 5 below the limit.

[TheMightyBK]

However bad you think it is in Charlotte/NC, I promise you it's worse in Virginia. I don't know who taught Virginians how to drive, but half of them want to sit in the left lane of rural 2-lane freeways going 5 below the limit.

Got my DL in VA in the 80s- we were taught in Drivers Ed that the left lane was the passing lane. Moved to Charlotte after college and had to test for DL in NC. Question on test- which lane is the passing lane, was multiple choice. Naturally answered left. WRONG!! In NC, there is no designated passing lane. Not a VA driver issue, it’s a migration issue. People from other states move and bring their rules with them, and chaos reigns. [emoji1308]


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[seththom]

Any zipper merge in a high-traffic area is prone to disaster, not to mention tons of traffic scrambling to cross all of I-77 before the John Belk exit.

It baffles me that they didn't split the ramp into two lanes: one purely for the express lanes, and one for the general lanes. The zipper at the end only allows capacity for one lane of traffic anyway.

The other alternative imo would be to make the I-77 S to I-85 N ramp an exit-only lane, taking I-77 to two general purpose lanes, and then continuing both lanes from the on-ramp from I-85 S on to I-77 S. I feel like that wouldn't have required that much more space but I could be wrong.

[KJHburg]

Charlotte is middle of the pack in the cities with most time lost in rush hour traffic. #40 out of 80.  But one city in NC is the winner or at bottom of the list.  Greensboro loses the least hours in rush hour traffic in the 80 biggest cities.

https://infogram.com/1pwxmkwrynd237cvnn79v99yn5u95679dn5?live

https://www.copilotsearch.com/posts/cities-that-lose-the-most-time-in-rush-hour-traffic/

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Population stats aside, Greensboro also has one of the nicest and widest stretches of i 40 imo too (little before gboro if coming from Winston).  Near the colonial pipeline. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[rancenc]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Charlotte is middle of the pack in the cities with most time lost in rush hour traffic. #40 out of 80.  But one city in NC is the winner or at bottom of the list.  Greensboro loses the least hours in rush hour traffic in the 80 biggest cities.

https://infogram.com/1pwxmkwrynd237cvnn79v99yn5u95679dn5?live

https://www.copilotsearch.com/posts/cities-that-lose-the-most-time-in-rush-hour-traffic/

Interesting stats! Some metros were much lower then expected and some way higher.,....Dallas at 31 as opposed to Charleston SC which was in the top 15....interesting!

[elrodvt]

The "percentage using private transport" numbers are really discouraging!

Pretty strange to see Boise in the list.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Any survey that doesn’t have metro DC in the top 4 of bad traffic and commutes is prima facie sus.

[abttown]

Going to take a moment to kvetch a bit. Has anyone else driven on the 277 Brookshire Blvd overpasses lately? I think NCDOT? did some bridge work/resurfacing and wow, the transitions from the road to bridge surfaces are awful. It almost seems as if they installed speed bumps on the road, which in retrospect may encourage folks to slow down, but holy moly is it a bumpy ride! Are they finished with the road work or is this just a temporary fix?

Edited January 23, 2023 by abttown

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:20 PM, TheMightyBK said:

Got my DL in VA in the 80s- we were taught in Drivers Ed that the left lane was the passing lane. Moved to Charlotte after college and had to test for DL in NC. Question on test- which lane is the passing lane, was multiple choice. Naturally answered left. WRONG!! In NC, there is no designated passing lane. Not a VA driver issue, it’s a migration issue. People from other states move and bring their rules with them, and chaos reigns.


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The issue with Virginia and SC to some extent is such low speed limits with OVER ENFORCEMENT of  "speeding" in those states. It drives me nuts that smaller cars and 18 wheelers have the same speed limit. I think we should have different speed limits per lane and different access to each lane based on the vehicle size (like most countries in the world).

[KJHburg]

Not sure where to put this but I will here.

Ledger today had a big story on how scooter use is down in Charlotte.

Is Charlotte about to face a scooter apocalypse?
Scooters face an uncertain future
TONY MECIA
JAN 26

""When electric scooters first hit the streets of Charlotte in 2018, they were touted as a handy way to get around without a car — faster than walking, cheaper and more fun than Uber.

Today, though, the future of scooter rentals is in doubt. The three scooter companies operating in Charlotte — Bird, Lime and Helbiz — are burning through investors’ cash, pulling out of cities and laying off workers in an attempt to find a profitable business model.

Meanwhile, city figures show that ridership last year fell slightly from 2021. And ridership in each of the last two years was down more than 30% from the first full year of scooters in Charlotte in 2019.

Something has to give, because the struggling scooter companies can’t keep losing money indefinitely.""

>>I have noticed myself you don't see as many people riding scooters as much.  Is this because of less time in the office, the cost rising for the rides or a combination of both or something else? Or has it just not recovered post Covid?  the best year was 2019 and maybe the novelty has worn off.