Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[ChiefJoJo]

Guess what? Our law makers in Raleigh took more money out of the Highway Trust Fund this year to fund their pet projects.

I used to think the same thing but, like most things, its way more complicated than that. The transfer was put into place way back in 1989 with the Highway Trust Fund Law to replace a portion of tax revenue (gas or veh fees--not sure which) that was diverted by that law to road construction, so it was agreed that the lost general revenue funds were replaced to the general fund each year as a "hold harmless" agreement. It was basically an accounting fix, but some have used it quite skillfully as a point of contention that we don't have enough highway funding.

It's similar to the politicial games played by the likes of Bob Graham, who argue that we should cap the gas tax (it is, unfortunately--even though the rate is set by the market price of refined oil) because the tax is so high compared to other states... what they don't tell you is NC has no county rds and has the 2nd highest state roadway system in the nation (to TX). You aren't getting the complete story.

[voyager12]

Recently I have heard a lot about the road maintenance inequities in Charlotte. I went to a party in East Charlotte this weekend and there was a lot of resentment from area residents regarding how trashy the streets and bus stops are compared to South Charlotte. They have to stand in trash piles or practically on the road while on the other side of Wendover there stone overhangs and nice benches with flowers and trash cans. I was listening to the Open Phones segment on Charlotte Talks yesterday and a caller contrasted West and East Boulevards. According to the city all roads and sidewalks are maintained equally. But as the westside resident pointed out anyone can see how untrue this is. She said West is a disgusting mess to walk along but as soon as you cross South onto East it's kept so immaculate you could eat off the ground. As is the case in most cities the wealthiest areas seem to have the most clout and West Blvd will improve once it gentrifies more and current residents dealing with the neglect are pushed out.

Edited August 8, 2007 by voyager12

[Mobuchu]

I wonder how much of that is because of the residents though? Having worked in ever corner of this city Iv'e witnessed people with total disregard for littering and dumping trash. One of the guests on the "Average Joe" shows a couple weeks ago commented on the difference between the trash on East and West Blvds. I'm not saying there is no fault by the city, but I just dont see residents and people jogging through Dilworth throwing their beer bottles on the sidewalk. This I have seen happen on West Blvd.

The same guest also commented on the streetscape improvements only happening in South Charlotte like East Blvd. I guess he hasn't seen Tuckaseegee Rd. lately. Runs right through a poor neighborhood and got the same streetscape upgrade as East did. This has actually happened in many sections of the city, Pence Rd. in West Charlotte also comes to mind.

[Miesian Corners]

Well here it is. Brookshire and I-77s new solar streetlighting. Glad to know its coming from Rock Hill, glad to know its actually going forward, glad to know its green technology, but I have to be honest, SC Solar should hire some industrial product designers for the actual physical aesthetic design. Let's just say they don't have a "European" look to them. They look like a science project built in the garage. You be the judge, and remember, there will be lots more of these poles than the poles in place currently. SC Solar Lighting

I'm really not complaining here. I had just hoped for something that looked a little more "cool". I just have to keep reminding myself that we live in North Carolina and that will never happen when public money is in play.

[monsoon]

...... I just have to keep reminding myself that we live in North Carolina and that will never happen when public money is in play.

Unless it is taxmoney for professional sports.

[Justadude]

^ I agree that it's probably got more to do with residents than with city services. There was recently an abandoned couch on the side of the street in the middle of 4th Ward for almost a month because someone just left it there without calling for a pickup (or they called and the pickup never occurred). This is less than a block from some of the city's most expensive and historic homes, and you've got a rotting couch being slept on by vagrants on the side of the street.

I used to work with a former real estate agent, and he once mentioned that his company would send agents out to drive by properties before agreeing to represent them. The first thing they would look for would be trash on the streets, as an indicator of whether the neighborhood was in ascent or decline. So if West Blvd. wants to get the same kind of investment as East Blvd., a good first step would be for some group to "adopt" the street and get rid of the litter that obviously makes a strong public impression.

[Miesian Corners]

Unless it is taxmoney for professional sports.

Touche.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Well chief it is time for them to get honest and tell us just how they are funding our roads. If the trust fund is a pork barrel then say so.

[ChiefJoJo]

Well chief it is time for them to get honest and tell us just how they are funding our roads. If the trust fund is a pork barrel then say so.

We'll never see an end to politics with roads, but hopefully the crys from the rapidly growing urban areas of the state (primarily Charlotte, Triangle, Triad) are beginning to be heard. I was encouraged by two developments in the legislature this session. One, that they passed the transfer tax for counties, when the massive real estate lobby was putting on the full court press to stop it. Two, that many legislators have called for a special session on just transportation this fall. The fact that it's being identified for the first time in a while as a major issue is a very good sign. I would expect some sort of bill related to toll gap funding and/or perhaps a permanent end to the general fund transfer. If they do reconvene, the leadership won't let them leave without getting something accomplished.

[Spartan]

I wonder how much of that is because of the residents though? Having worked in ever corner of this city Iv'e witnessed people with total disregard for littering and dumping trash. One of the guests on the "Average Joe" shows a couple weeks ago commented on the difference between the trash on East and West Blvds. I'm not saying there is no fault by the city, but I just dont see residents and people jogging through Dilworth throwing their beer bottles on the sidewalk. This I have seen happen on West Blvd.

The same guest also commented on the streetscape improvements only happening in South Charlotte like East Blvd. I guess he hasn't seen Tuckaseegee Rd. lately. Runs right through a poor neighborhood and got the same streetscape upgrade as East did. This has actually happened in many sections of the city, Pence Rd. in West Charlotte also comes to mind.

Residents on the Westside also don't know that they can call the City and ask for it to be fixed. Wealthier residents are more willing to figure out how to do that.

[nyxmike]

I thought this was interesting... NCDOT is looking at using the shoulder as a 3rd lane for 485 in southern Mecklenburg. If I read the article correctly, it looks like they will only add the lane on the inner loop part (people driving from Matthews to Pineville)? Why wouldn't they add it to both sides?

http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/242145.html

[dubone]

They ARE doing a third lane on both sides, but that won't happen until the official project is funded in 2013. The shoulder lane idea is something they may be able to do as a cheap project something in the next year or two, so they'll only do it where it is most needed, on the 'inner' loop.

If you want something fast, you can't expect everything to be done with it.

[nyxmike]

They ARE doing a third lane on both sides, but that won't happen until the official project is funded in 2013. The shoulder lane idea is something they may be able to do as a cheap project something in the next year or two, so they'll only do it where it is most needed, on the 'inner' loop.

If you want something fast, you can't expect everything to be done with it.

I realize they are adding a lane to both sides in 2013. I was commenting on how they plan to re-stripe and add a lane on only one side. If you travel that stretch during rush hour you will see it is needed on both sides, even if it is a quick fix. In the morning, the outer loop also backs up just like it does in the afternoon.

Edited August 19, 2007 by nyxmike

[Raintree21]

The article actually says the biggest problem is the outer loop, not the inner. Personally, I think most people if given a choice would take the inner loop being widened so they can get to work faster. While it sucks to be stuck in traffic on the way home, you don't necessarily have a set time that you have to get there like you do for your work place in the morning.

[RiverwoodCLT]

By the time the NCDOT widens I485 in 2012, it is going to cost double what it will cost today. That is the reason the NVDOT is behind the 8 ball all the time. A 30 million dollar job to day and spend more that 60 million dollars in 2012 is no way the state will ever get caught up.

The way the NCDOT funds and builds road should be change so we are not falling always fall behind. We know that nothing will happen as long as the political power in Raleigh is from eastern NC.

I am not anti eastern NC, I was born and rised in southern NC were the roads were not the good when I moved out in 1965.

Edited August 20, 2007 by RiverwoodCLT

[Spartan]

By the time the NCDOT widens I485 in 2012, it is going to cost double what it will cost today. That is the reason the NVDOT is behind the 8 ball all the time. A 30 million dollar job to day and spend more that 60 million dollars in 2012 is no way the state will ever get caught up.

And yet nobody will be pissed off about this for any reason other than it taking longer than expected. I don't feel bad for anyone that lives out there. There are plently of other places to live that don't require taking 485.

[dubone]

Putting band aid on the outer loop in this section would not help, as you have all of those cars squeezing down into two lanes. Adding an extra land just moves the bottleneck slightly. Adding a lane to the inner loop helps because there are lanes for those cars to go. Plus, it helps many of those cars to get to the LRT line faster, cutting out some of the overall roadway demand for part of the commute.

Really, I go all ways on this, so I don't have a consistent stance. I think that no money should be spent on 485, as there is no way to truly solve the problem (people commuting out there get what's coming to them, as the more you build, the more that other neighborhoods will be added), I think that putting a band aid is fine because it helps them to relieve some of the near term congestion (which helps all of our air, even if it isn't us making the bad choices), and I believe in doing all the transportation projects in the city (as I believe that infrastructure needs to be built in the cities where they're needed most, rather than redundant rural roads). But it is what it is.

[monsoon]

By the time the NCDOT widens I485 in 2012, it is going to cost double what it will cost today. That is the reason the NVDOT is behind the 8 ball all the time. A 30 million dollar job to day and spend more that 60 million dollars in 2012 is no way the state will ever get caught up.

The way the NCDOT funds and builds road should be change so we are not falling always fall behind. We know that nothing will happen as long as the political power in Raleigh is from eastern NC.

I am not anti eastern NC, I was born and rised in southern NC were the roads are not the good when I moved out in 1965.

The debacle of 485 has nothing to do with the NCDOT and eastern NC. First, this project was always presented as a 30 year project. I remember this from when we voted locally here for it in the 1980s. Second, the section of 485 you are referring to was designed with a capacity to handle traffic based on growth figures provided by Mecklenburg County and the City of Charlotte. When they presented these figures, they said they would not allow development on this road as it was supposed to be nothing but a transit corridor, not a development corridor.

Did the local government follow this promise. NO they didn't. Even before the first ground breaking for the road starts, they approved the Pineville Mall, and multitudes of developments along that road so that it was hopelessly over capacity before it even opened. So the NCDOT and the rest of the state have a legitimate argument this is Charlotte's fault and not theirs and they don't see the need to provide hundreds of millions more to fix a problem that was basically caused by a failure of local government to say no to developers such as the Bissell company (developed SouthPart and Ballentyne).

If you want to see what development is supposed to be on 485 drive down that section and look for the developments with sound barrior walls. Those are the only ones that are supposed to be there and there are very few of them. The rest were approved AFTER the road was announced. And often missed by people in CLT, the remaining parts of the highway were re-designed for 3-4 lanes even though the original design did not call for this based on Mecklenburg/Charlotte growth figures.

[28202]

I believe that on that board at that time was a member of the Harris company... it may even have been Peter Pappas. Anyone remember this accurately?

[grodney]

I hate half-reporting. The Observer story is fine, but WHY can't the outer be re-striped in the same way? I'm sure there's a reason -- Moose et al are smart people, smarter than me. I just want to know what that reason is.

[ChiefJoJo]

I think that putting a band aid is fine because it helps them to relieve some of the near term congestion (which helps all of our air, even if it isn't us making the bad choices)...

Improving 485 probably would help in the near term, but as an FYI on air quality in general, auto emissions are not automatically better at higher speeds... the lowest emissions occur at moderate speeds, about 30-35mph on avg. So, building new freeway lanes doesn't necessarily correlate to cleaner air. Managing congestion by getting cars off the road (reducing the numbers of single-occupant vehicles and increasing transit ridership) is probably the best way to go. This is why I believe the transit vote is critical to dealing with Charlotte's AQ problem.

I believe that on that board at that time was a member of the Harris company... it may even have been Peter Pappas. Anyone remember this accurately?

Pappas was, at one time (can't recall when), the local board member for NCDOT. I'm not saying Pappas did anything wrong per se, but unfortunately, a lot of these folks have a lot to gain finanically by being placed in these powerful state positions. Frankly, there are a number of state legislators that do the same thing; instead of looking out for their consituents interests, they look after their own.

[Raintree21]

WCNC has an article about a new exit on I-485 and Weddington Road. Construction is slated to begin in 2010 and it will be a cloverleaf interchange.

[grodney]

If this matters to you, you probably already know, but just in case for those who might be interested outside the area:

Two small projects on Johnston/521 are nearing completion.

1. On southbound Johnston/521 in the heart of Ballantyne, it appears the single left-turn lane onto Ballantyne Commons has been widened to a double left-turn lane, at the expense of the wide median.

2. Further south at the intersection of Marvin and Johnston/521, the intersection is having a directional median installed, such that traffic from Marvin can no longer cross Johnston/521. In other words, if you're on Marvin coming to Johnston/521 from either direction, you *must* turn right onto Johnston/521. Traffic on Johnston/521 (from either direction) will still be allowed to turn left onto Marvin.

[Justadude]

IIRC, it was Johnny Harris that sat on the board at that time.

[Neo]

I just read that the project to widen Hwy. 73 in Huntersville has by far exceeded what Huntersville thought they were going to have to cough up for the project. Instead of 8 or 9 million it is now between 16 and 25 million which is more than double what was expected. Interesting considering how CATS is held under a flame for cost overruns. I doubt much of an ordeal will be made about this road project though.