Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[Reverie39]

On 4/23/2023 at 12:25 PM, nicholas said:

I've driven Raleigh to Charlotte and vice versa via 49/64 probably at least a hundred times.  Going through Asheville was the worst part of the trip by miles.  There are soooo many traffic lights and everyone there drives so damn slowly, and there's traffic literally 24/7.  Always dreaded driving through there so was glad they finally built a bypass.  Building the bypass to the north of the city would have been shorter for US 64, but considering the zoo is on the south side and so much through traffic follows NC 49 to/from Charlotte, it made a lot more sense to build on the south side.

That said, I mainly stick to 85/40 when going between Raleigh and Charlotte now since the construction through Concord and Kannapolis has been completed.  Although the stretch of 40 between the 85 split and Chapel Hill sucks and it looks like they're doing preliminary construction to finally widen that section.

That stretch of 40 near Chapel Hill is horrific. I can't believe it has survived as two lanes for this long. Widening needed to happen decades ago. It is surreal to drive towards the Triangle, a sizable metro area, and watch the freeway you are on narrow right as you enter lol.

[kayman]

On 4/24/2023 at 2:39 PM, KJHburg said:

NC needs good rural roads as we are a major agricultural state 9th biggest according to USDA,  Plus our resort destinations are beach and mountain rural communities.  

It is true we don't have county roads only state or city roads.  I guess we can cut the state DOT budget and increase property taxes across the state in each 100 counties to make up for it.  ( I am joking on that) 

I dont think NC is any way of increasing auto dependency compared to any other state that is as rural as our state still is.  

https://www.osbm.nc.gov/blog/2020/11/19/north-carolina-rural-or-urban#:~:text=Considered a rural state for,Carolina has become increasingly urban.

Per NC OMB, the description of what is rural versus urban is very bizarre.  As they classified what is urban by municipal population.  The new 2020 US Census designation of urban versus rural is bit more clear although it's confusing and screwed with because of GOP political meddling. 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/12/29/2022-28286/2020-census-qualifying-urban-areas-and-final-criteria-clarifications#:~:text=As a result of the,7 in the Island Areas.

North Carolina is an urban state as over 50+٪ of the state population are in 2020 US Census designated urban areas.  That's the future of our state is the enlarging urban areas. We shouldn't be ignoring nor neglecting our largest urban area like Charlotte to build more rural roads.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by kayman

[kayman]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:04 PM, Take2 said:

Driving to Siler City a few days a week now.... From my home in Roberta Mill (Cabarrus Co), mapquest sends me up 49 to 64... Another option is 85N to Hwy 64 at Exit 94ish... 

The 64 Bypass at Asheboro is 14.4 miles and not sure what the point is of that hwy. Virtually NOONE seems to use it! There are some decorative interchanges with Animal themes due to the NC Zoo being there... otherwise it's wide open. 

The entire way via 49 /64 is very heavy with NC State Troopers as well as Sherrifs in the counties you travel through. 

But coming back to Concord last evening was a nightmare due to a pickup truck that did not exceed 40mph from Denton all the way to Cabarrus County. Thought I was going to lose my mind and had to 50 cars behind him. Luckily only one SUV was between me and the truck and was finally able to pass just past Richfield...

Honestly I think I'll take 64 to 85S from now on. I don't have the patience... 

 

But NCDOT sure does like to build bypasses everywhere. Seems tax payer money would have been better spent focusing on Independence..  

Absolutely no reason 74 shouldn't be an Interstate clear to Wilmington. It's a shame how state government has held Charlotte captive by keeping 74 the mess it is. 

This is very true. I've spent a lot of time recently along US 74 (Independence) inside of I-485. One thing I've noticed is the pedestrian experience of sidewalks along that bizarre hybrid expressway-boulevard segment between Briar Creek Road interchange and I-485 is absurd,  ADA non-compliant, and extremely dangerous. NCDOT needs to just close all access points, remove curb cut driveways, remove the sidewalks and only allow interchange ramps as the limited access points. It's a federal lawsuit waiting to happen. This is why I feel like it's imperative to fix this stretch for the safety point alone.

Edited April 27, 2023 by kayman

[KJHburg]

This is good news for the 77 express lanes though I have seen the highest tolls recently.   I dash in and out depending on traffic. 

From an advertisement in the Biz Journal:

""On March 31, 2023, the Average Daily Traffic (ADT) rate of cars and trucks on the corridor reached its highest level ever of about 123,000 – an increase of 13,000 from the same time the previous year.  Those improvements have decreased travel times for all drivers – not just those who choose to use the express lanes. For example, prior to the start of construction in 2015, drivers needed about 45 minutes during the morning or evening rush hour to travel from Charlotte to Mooresville. In the free general-purpose lanes, the same trip now takes about 30 minutes.  What’s impressive is the dramatic improvement in safety throughout the corridor. Despite the increase in vehicles, the accident rate has fallen from 196 accidents per 100,000,000 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) in 2015 prior to the start of construction to 103 accidents per 100,000,000 VMT in 2022. That’s a more than 90% drop""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/04/28/i-77-express-reaches-another-milestone-in.html?ana=e_ae_native&j=31318913&senddate=2023-04-28

sounds like Cintra is making its case for 77 south express lanes just saying.  

[JHart]

"Despite the increase in vehicles, the accident rate has fallen from 196 accidents per 100,000,000 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) in 2015 prior to the start of construction to 103 accidents per 100,000,000 VMT in 2022. That’s a more than 90% drop"

I don't trust their self-reported numbers to begin with in their advertisement, but after seeing their math I'm now convinced every number is completely made up. 

[thenewkage95]

12 hours ago, JHart said:

"Despite the increase in vehicles, the accident rate has fallen from 196 accidents per 100,000,000 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) in 2015 prior to the start of construction to 103 accidents per 100,000,000 VMT in 2022. That’s a more than 90% drop"

I don't trust their self-reported numbers to begin with in their advertisement, but after seeing their math I'm now convinced every number is completely made up. 

I was just about to say…that math ain’t mathin’…

[KJHburg]

FYI 

[Take2]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:45 AM, Windsurfer said:

Look at any road map of the state.  We've paved literally every driveway.  Compare to, say Missouri.   The maintenance on all these roads is expensive.  Where I'm living now, in Oregon,  most of the roads in rural areas are gravel. Granted it has about 1/4 the population but, gravel roads serve well enough and are used frequently in the populous areas.

I lived on a dirt rd in Rowan County until it was paved around 1990ish along with most other off rds in the county. My guess is that it wqs the late late 80s and eaely 90s until most rural roads in NC were paved. Even then it wasnt the best pavement.

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, Take2 said:

I lived on a dirt rd in Rowan County until it was paved around 1990ish along with most other off rds in the county. My guess is that it wqs the late late 80s and eaely 90s until most rural roads in NC were paved. Even then it wasnt the best pavement.

Okay, perhaps I shouldn't have said "literally".   Still, pull out an old road map from the 70s or 80s and compare it to another state. It's the biggest pile of spaghetti of paved roads imaginable. 

[KJHburg]

""The N.C. Department of Transportation said this week it will spend the summer analyzing a private proposal made last year to build a $2 billion toll lane expansion of Interstate 77 between uptown and the S.C. state line, with a decision to follow on whether to keep the proposal as an option for the Charlotte Regional Transportation Planning Organization.  

CRTPO and the state transportation department will continue to examine both private and traditional, taxpayer-funded options no matter the verdict on the proposal from I-77 Mobility Partners.  

Trying to solve traffic congestion for commuters traveling between South Carolina suburbs and uptown Charlotte dates to 2007, when the regional governing body began studying the issue. In 2014, CRTPO decided that, if it expands I-77 along the southern corridor, it would do so using toll lanes to manage traffic flow and guarantee more efficient travel times through demand-based pricing.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/05/19/crtpo-i-77-mobility-partners-toll-express-lanes.html

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Project plans have been posted for the final sections of the U.S. 74 Shelby Bypass, a decade after construction began on the first section. The contract will be let 7/18/2023 and construction can begin 8/28/2023. Completion is slated for 4/30/2029, with majority completion by 11/1/2028. A separate design-build project to construct an interchange at Lattimore Rd. in Mooresboro west of Shelby will also be let in July. Once both projects are completed, U.S. 74 will be a continuous freeway between I-26 and I-85.

[KJHburg]

New bridge over I-85 in the University long planned has its funding now.

https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/city-approves-north-charlotte-road-improvements-new-bridge-over-i-85/

[rancenc]

Interesting! Did not know until after reading this article, that the governor signed a bill diverting 2% of state sales tax to help fund transportation needs in North Carolina.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/lake-norman/article275733101.html#

[nicholas]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:58 PM, cowboy_wilhelm said:

Project plans have been posted for the final sections of the U.S. 74 Shelby Bypass, a decade after construction began on the first section. The contract will be let 7/18/2023 and construction can begin 8/28/2023. Completion is slated for 4/30/2029, with majority completion by 11/1/2028. A separate design-build project to construct an interchange at Lattimore Rd. in Mooresboro west of Shelby will also be let in July. Once both projects are completed, U.S. 74 will be a continuous freeway between I-26 and I-85.

Is there any rational explanation for why this project has taken so long just to get to this point?  I mean the Monroe bypass is about the same length and was completed in three years.  Shelby has been a noticeable bottleneck for Asheville-Charlotte traffic for ages and construction on the bypass started TEN years ago, yet somehow we are still a looooooong ways away from completion.  Looking at some of the active and proposed projects out there, I just have a hard time believing that building a loop around Winston-Salem, widening US 221 between West Jefferson and US 421, widening US 321 to six lanes from Hickory to Lenoir, building bypasses around numerous small towns and cities along US 70 between Raleigh and Morehead City, etc, is more important than finally finishing the Shelby bypass that currently essentially serves as an expensive highway to nowhere (and really shouldn't have been necessary in the first place if the original Shelby bypass had been built as a limited-access highway). 

I get wanting to prioritize projects fairly in consideration of traffic volumes and population levels throughout of the state, but I feel like connecting our biggest cities should be the highest priority especially since there is not a lot that still needs to be done at this point.  We basically just need an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington interstate connection. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by nicholas

[southslider]

^Building a bypass around a bypass should be a lower priority.

[nicholas]

3 hours ago, southslider said:

^Building a bypass around a bypass should be a lower priority.

With all of the businesses and intersections that were allowed to be constructed along 74 in Shelby, it's no more of a bypass than US 74/Andrew Jackson Hwy was through Monroe (bypassing Franklin St and Charlotte Ave) before the Monroe Expressway was built.  I don't disagree with your point in general but if you are going to start a relatively straightforward road project, don't drag it out for close to two decades.

Edited May 27, 2023 by nicholas

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Don't forget Goldsboro, Monroe, Asheboro, Selma, Greenville, Kinston (eventually), and others. This is not unique to Shelby.

There are a few reasons I've heard for the delays. There was the budget crunch from the Map Act settlements, hurricane recovery, and then COVID that affected all projects. That delayed construction from 2019 to 2021 and then to 2023.

Another reason is the claim that the Division couldn't fund construction on all sections at once and have funding for other projects in the Division, so it's split into "manageable" sections. That hasn't stopped other bypass projects across the state (Asheboro and Goldsboro are good examples) from being constructed all at once. Remember that Monroe is tolled and uses a different funding mechanism.

Another interesting claim for the delay over the years was the doomed Garden Parkway. The crooked politicians that were looking to profit off the land development around the interchanges kept the project funding earmarked for years, even though it was tied up in lawsuits and not going anywhere. That prevented other projects in the Division/MPO like the Shelby Bypass from moving forward since there wasn't enough money left in the funding pot. Had it not been for the Garden Parkway, the Shelby Bypass would likely have been fully built early last decade. The Record of Decision was published in October 2008.

And finally, as those in Charlotte are already aware, Raleigh doesn't care about western North Carolina unless it's Asheville or Boone. No one from Raleigh drives through Shelby. It is not on their radar and not on their way to the beach or mountains. It took nearly two decades to build 74 between I-26 and U.S. 221. It was such a slow project they literally had to go in and clear newly grown scrub trees and re-grade before paving. Slow projects are nothing new here.

Exit 163 in 1976.

Exit 167 in 1989.

[southslider]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:20 AM, cowboy_wilhelm said:

Remember that Monroe is tolled and uses a different funding mechanism.

The extra cost of building a fully controlled-access facility on completely new right-of-way makes for a good turnpike candidate, especially if wanting to build such high-cost corridor all at once.

[rancenc]

New transportation link coming to the University City area.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/travel/charlotte-interstate-85-university-new-bridge/275-b5d32bf3-46f5-4640-a7e8-18a64dda4785

[nicholas]

7 hours ago, rancenc said:

New transportation link coming to the University City area.

https://www.wcnc.com/article/travel/charlotte-interstate-85-university-new-bridge/275-b5d32bf3-46f5-4640-a7e8-18a64dda4785

Nice separated bike lanes, too bad they couldn't  have continued them onto Research and David Taylor (at least through the sections that will be widened).

[Take2]

On 5/26/2023 at 12:11 AM, nicholas said:

Is there any rational explanation for why this project has taken so long just to get to this point?  I mean the Monroe bypass is about the same length and was completed in three years.  Shelby has been a noticeable bottleneck for Asheville-Charlotte traffic for ages and construction on the bypass started TEN years ago, yet somehow we are still a looooooong ways away from completion.  Looking at some of the active and proposed projects out there, I just have a hard time believing that building a loop around Winston-Salem, widening US 221 between West Jefferson and US 421, widening US 321 to six lanes from Hickory to Lenoir, building bypasses around numerous small towns and cities along US 70 between Raleigh and Morehead City, etc, is more important than finally finishing the Shelby bypass that currently essentially serves as an expensive highway to nowhere (and really shouldn't have been necessary in the first place if the original Shelby bypass had been built as a limited-access highway). 

I get wanting to prioritize projects fairly in consideration of traffic volumes and population levels throughout of the state, but I feel like connecting our biggest cities should be the highest priority especially since there is not a lot that still needs to be done at this point.  We basically just need an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington interstate connection. 

Applause Applause!! 

[KJHburg]

Update on road projects in Charlotte Mecklenburg and many of these are way behind in my opinion.

https://www.wfae.org/charlotte-area/2023-06-08/ncdot-is-looking-into-widening-providence-road

[KJHburg]

Glad to see parts of the I-85 widening from Spartanburg to the NC SC state line is complete and rest is nearing completion.  Now NC needs to widen its short stretch from the state line to US 74 in Kings Mountain.  This is a super important corridor to Charlotte from the upstate of SC to Charlotte and now NC will have the most narrowest link.  

 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

40 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Glad to see parts of the I-85 widening from Spartanburg to the NC SC state line is complete and rest is nearing completion.  Now NC needs to widen its short stretch from the state line to US 74 in Kings Mountain.  This is a super important corridor to Charlotte from the upstate of SC to Charlotte and now NC will have the most narrowest link.  

 

 

 

Interestingly SC's most southern 19 miles are also only 2 lanes, while Georgia constructs and additional lane to the SC border. So the only 2 lane stretch of 85 between Atlanta and Charlotte will be the first 19 miles of SC and the first 10 miles of NC. 

[tozmervo]

19 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Interestingly SC's most southern 19 miles are also only 2 lanes, while Georgia constructs and additional lane to the SC border. So the only 2 lane stretch of 85 between Atlanta and Charlotte will be the first 19 miles of SC and the first 10 miles of NC. 

I only know of GA plans widening to Commerce, which leaves them about 30 miles short of the state line.