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Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction


monsoon

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In the Dr. Traffic column this morning, the statement was made by NCDOT that they believe the airport signage on Charlotte's major highways is adequate.

Scary.

I guess before they pulled down the airport signs on I-77 and replaced them with Billy Graham Library signs, they thought it was exceptional. These are the same people that opened southern 485 under-capacity, can't keep lights working and needed a computer model to figure out that six lanes of 485 traffic north of town dumping into two lanes of 77 north would cause backups.

They need to get out of their cubes once in awile.

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I think NCDOT cares nothing about Charlotte roads, so why does this surprise you?

Doesn't necessarily surprise me, but it can still make me mad! :angry:

Oh, and I forgot TWO YEARS late on completion of NW leg of 485. They used to say the delays were because of rain. . . . .

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Do you remember when we complain about CATS construction on the south line? CATS can not hold a candle to NCDOT.

NCDOT has been late and over budget on about all of I-485.

To be more precise, I would actually say the contractors have been late and over budget on every segment of 485 and NCDOT has not done anything about it. Whatever happened to enforcing contracts and the fines associated with being overdue on finish deadlines?

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  • 3 weeks later...

What the heck is with all the water main breaks lately. The O is reporting that another one has closed an outbound lane of South Blvd in front of La Paz. Is there something about the weather right now causing it?

I know when one breaks, it puts pressure on all the other ones in the area so maybe it's a domino effect. Add to that the fact that the majority of them are decades old, it's just a matter of time before they all bust.

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What the heck is with all the water main breaks lately. The O is reporting that another one has closed an outbound lane of South Blvd in front of La Paz. Is there something about the weather right now causing it?

I had heard that the number of breaks we're seeing isn't unusual, just that they're happening in high traffic areas so they get more media coverage. Thanks again to the media in Charlotte for making a mountain out of a molehill. ^_^

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  • 3 weeks later...

Even though it is still years away, does anyone know if the flyover ramp is still planned with the widening of 485 to Johnston Road? I was thinking it would probably give a great skyline view from that angle.

From what I've seen on the MUMPO documents, it's still included and currently has a 2015 date. Not sure if that's completion or start of construction though.

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Does anyone have any recent info about the lighting situation? I noticed they fixed most of the lights on 77 between the Belk and Brookshire. I haven't noticed any other changes. They are suppose to go all the way up and down 77 eventually and 85 as well, no?

Edited by nyxmike
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Does anyone have any recent info about the lighting situation? I noticed they fixed most of the lights on 77 between the Belk and Brookshire. I haven't noticed any other changes. They are suppose to go all the way up and down 77 eventually and 85 as well, no?

The lights were still burnt out north on 77 between 277 and 85.

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^I swear they were all on between LaSalle and Brookshire last week.

Driving home Thurs night all but a few were out, particularly on the big bend about a mile south of I-85, all the way up to 85. Don't remember anything past 85 or anything in the I-77/Uptown immediate area but I think those were on.

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Is it just me or have they slacked off with mowing the grass around the interstates? 77 south is pretty bad and so are the interchanges of 277. I don't care if they never widen 77 south but they do need to turn all the lights back on and keep the grass maintained. It is the least NCDOT could do for us...

Edited by nyxmike
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I noticed the O did a pretty extensive story on how loop funding is handled in NC, and how Charlotte is seen as being shortchanged when compared to other areas. Basically, there is no formula to how the money is spread out... but it's best if you can get the planning work done first, as it clears a lot of the hurdles.

I know that everyone seems to be dead set on finishing the legacy loop program, but now that it's clear that energy prices are going to by sky high for the forseeable future, if it must be spent on roads I would much rather take this money and focus it on other areas of need... making sure we have money to maintain the roads and bridges we have first, fixing key interstate bottlenecks (Yadkin River), and other selective projects. It ought to be done in a strategic way, and not willy nilly (aka in the backyard of the most powerful politician).

It will be interesting to see what McCrory does if he is elected Governor. He has said publicly that he would appoint professional planners and engineers to the DOT board, instead of political donors/insiders/developers. I think that would be a great step in the right direction in setting new priorities, although the legislature still has tremendous power.

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My question is why does NC still have a loop program? First of all, loop roads have been proven to do nothing to relieve congestion in the long run. Second why do random small towns like Gastonia need a loop? I would like to see what NCDOT's criteria are for funding loop projects, especially for places like Fayetteville, when there are so many other ACTUAL needs that go unmet in this state like Chief mentioned (eg: bridge replacement).

Its one thing to propose a new road to meet future demand, its another thing entirely to fund roads that are not needed. It seems to me that using the Fayetteville example from that article, NCDOT could build a road to better connect to 95 while not needing to circumnavigate the entire city.

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First of all, loop roads have been proven to do nothing to relieve congestion in the long run.

Actually this is not true. Loop roads do relieve congestion if the local municipality enforces zoning to prevent development around these roads. Charlotte was notoriously bad about this when the first section of I-485 opened and it is horribly congested now. They have been better about it on some of the later sections and in those cases, that part of the loop road does provide an alternative to a lot of through traffic.

In the same token, while I-277 (also considered a loop road) was considered an urban planning mistake of the worst kind. It does manage to handle a good bit of traffic downtown and prevent gridlock that would otherwise occur if it wasn't there. You should have seen Hwy 74 as it passed through downtown in the days before I-277.

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I-277 is a different scenario because its a retrofitted loop. 277 does serve its purpose to move traffic very well most of the time, and from a traffic perspective, you'll never find a better alternative than an interstate. Its pure capacity-based planning at its finest.

Actually this is not true. Loop roads do relieve congestion if the local municipality enforces zoning to prevent development around these roads.

Can you name a city where that has happened?

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I-277 is a different scenario because its a retrofitted loop. ...
It's a loop road. Built and funded with the same idea as all loop roads. Before it was officially designated it was called the "Charlotte Inner Loop". (485 was known as the outer loop) and is often referred to even today in these terms. I don't think you have proved your generalization that loop roads don't relieve congestion.
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Can you name a city where that has happened?

Arguably, Chapel Hill/Carrboro (NC54 Bypass), but admittedly, that's imperfect and not the normal case.

Typically, highway planners throw the asphalt down over the invisible bureacratic wall with a wink and a nod to the local govt, each claiming the other is responsible for the ensuing mess. I think there is some rational basis for highway bypasses in certain locations of strategic importance, but probably not under our current system of state/local governance, nor in 2008 with $4+ gas.

I can say, as someone who knows the process well, it will take a hurculean effort to change the way we plan our transportation infrastructure and associated development practices. It is embedded into our entire economy... from banks who rubber-stamp sprawling suburban developments to the federal govt's 80% subsidy of almost any highway without regard to cost or benefits. Anyway, I'm straying a bit from the topic, but it will be interesting to see what the happens with transportation policy in this country and NC over the coming years.

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