Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[tozmervo]

General question of interest - have right turn red arrows ever been enforced in this city? I constantly see people turning through these lights, even though it is clearly illegal.

[ellifyno]

General question of interest - have right turn red arrows ever been enforced in this city? I constantly see people turning through these lights, even though it is clearly illegal.

I saw your post about this in the Off-Topic thread in the Coffee House a few months ago and wondered then if this was true. I grew up in NC and had never heard that turning right on a red arrow was illegal. I set out for Google after seeing your original post and found that in many states, it is indeed illegal. In NC, it seemed to be unclear. A few weeks ago, however, I was in the Triangle and saw a sign that said "right on red arrow after stop." That seemed to indicate to me that it is, in fact, legal to turn right on a red arrow unless signed otherwise. Sure enough, more searching yields this link on the DOT's site:

Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn on red, vehicular traffic facing a steady CIRCULAR RED or RED ARROW signal indication may enter the intersection to turn right after stopping.

Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

[tozmervo]

Oh that just pisses me off. To me (and my TN-trained driver's mind), a red light is a red light is a red light. What's the point of even having red light right arrows?

Anyway, thanks for looking it up. I stand corrected.

[abttown]

Thanks for clearing that up ellifyno. I often wondered about these red arrows myself when I stopped at them and had the person behind me blow their horn. I'm not quite sure of the purpose of them either. Maybe they're there to let the driver know the lane only goes to the right? Once I saw cops go through them, I just kind of followed suit

[Sabaidee]

I've always seen people turning on red right circles/arrows after stopping and I have done it myself unless there is a sign that says No Turn On Red.

[grodney]

I don't recall seeing right red arrows. Maybe I've seen them and didn't notice. Weird.

I grew up with "right on red (circle)" being legal, but always assumed it could vary by state.

In some places, left on red (circle) is legal if you are going from one-way to one-way, as is the case in many uptown areas.

Excerpt from Wikipedia article for "Right turn on red":

"

As of 1992, right turn on red is governed federally by 42 U.S.C. § 6322© ("Each proposed State energy conservation plan to be eligible for Federal assistance under this part shall include: ...(5) a traffic law or regulation which, to the maximum extent practicable consistent with safety, permits the operator of a motor vehicle to turn such vehicle right at a red stop light after stopping, and to turn such vehicle left from a one-way street onto a one-way street at a red light after stopping.").

"

In reference to (presumably right) red arrows, it also says:

"

In some states, such as New York, a right turn on red is prohibited when a red arrow is present.

"

[southslider]

^Ideally, right red arrows would be limited to locations where right turns on red are indeed prohibited, so as to reduce signs. This ideal would be similar to how left flashing yellow arrows are now preferred over signs saying you can left turn yield on a green circle. In summary, the fewer signs there are, the better.

[orulz]

The right red arrow is generally used to indicate a right-turn-only lane. In NC, right turn on red right arrow is legal.

[tozmervo]

I don't recall seeing right red arrows. Maybe I've seen them and didn't notice. Weird.

I've mostly seen them in the vicinity of area malls. There are a bunch around Northlake along Harris and a few around South Park and Carolina Place.

[Skyybutter]

Yeah, there's something fishy here. I heard a story on the news the other night where they "announced" the widening of 85 from Concord Mills up to Hwy 73. I thought this was much further along than they indicated. I still haven't found much about the widening from 73 on to China Grove (other than the post here and I did find an article from a Salisbury Newspaper from the day the grant was announced. That story said the grant to widen was between 1 and 2 Million dollars. That won't widen much, so that can't be the whole story). I think my excitement was premature. =(

The sad part about this is that it is at least 10 years too late. Traffic mon-thurs leaving Charlotte backs up from concord mills to at least mallard creek at rush hour. Going into Charlotte it can back up at any of the exits due to traffic merging onto the highway anywhere from exit 58 which is the main concord/Kannapolis exit and again at exits, 55(the rowan cabarrus community college exit and also hwy 73 that goes to lake Norman)..exit 54 (the Afton Ridge Shopping center which includes Super Target and Best Buy and eating establishments) and then also at exit 52 which is Poplar Tent rd. Poplar Tent is a 20 yr outdated exit. From what I understand this exit will be re-disigned with the widening to be similar to the 77-Tyvola interchange.

Now let's talk about fridays. It is a disaster. I have been stop and go going in to Charlotte from Lane street, exit 60 all the way to Concord Mills, exit 49. Leaving Charlotte it has backed up from Ikea blvd to Concord Mills literally crawling and then stop and go 20-40mph from Concord Mills exit 49 until you pass exit 60. It's just a mess. I avoid it if at all possible.

And while we sit and complain about the traffic, developers continue to rip cabarrus county to shreds to throw up more houses. What was once a beautiful county is now strip malls and subdivisions. Wish I wasn't Debbie Downer about this , but I am.

[dubone]

Everything is a go for them to work on 85 widening from 485 to NC73. They only have funding now for the right of way and utilities for the rest of the way to the widened section in Rowan. The southern half is being accelerated with bonds, so it is possible that when that nears completion in a few years that they'll have gotten the other project on the books and then can look at bonds for that.

With the Yadkin bridge being redone now, and the southern half of Cabarrus county being widened shortly, the northern half of Cabarrus will be the last section needing widening to Durham.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

NCDOT has awarded a contract for Phase Two of the I-85 Corridor Improvement Project in Davidson County. This will widen I-85 to eight-lanes north of the current project replacing the Yadkin River bridges. It is scheduled for completion in May 2013.

Governor Perdue Announces Contract for I-85 Improvement Project - $55 Million Cheaper, Five Months Earlier Than Projected

And a cool visualization of the completed bridges:

[Sabaidee]

Finally! Now that one four-lanes section before Salisbury needs to be widen. I used to go to school in Winston-Salem and come home every week and I dreaded I-85 via US 52, too bad I wasn't fortunate enough to experience a widen 85.

[southslider]

^All that remains to be funded now is the section from Kannapolis to China Grove, then North Carolina will finally have a continuous 8-lane I-85 from Charlotte to Durham.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

^All that remains to be funded now is the section from Kannapolis to China Grove, then North Carolina will finally have a continuous 8-lane I-85 from Charlotte to Durham.

Well, it is six-lanes from south of Lexington to south of Greensboro, but six is better than four.

I wonder what the next Mobility Fund project will be. With Phase Two coming in $55 million below the estimate, that money will be directed to the next project(s). In my opinion, they need to keep this ball rolling while construction costs are so low.

Maybe widening the last section of I-85 between Concord and China Grove, or widening I-77 north of Charlotte? I doubt it, since completing I-485 and widening I-85 to Concord have already been fast-tracked. Not that these projects are unwarranted, but I imagine they’ll want to sprinkle money around the state for political reasons and fairness. Then again, who knows?

[southslider]

^If based on NCDOT's own recent analysis, the second highest ranked statewide need, after the Yadkin River Bridge, was actually widening Independence Bouelvard out to I-485. I question, though, how much the rest of the State could stomach the Mobility Fund being tapped regularly for projects in or near Charlotte.

[orulz]

Well, it is six-lanes from south of Lexington to south of Greensboro, but six is better than four.

Plus, don't forget the parallel 4-lane I-85 business. Not as fast but still, almost a freeway. 10 lanes on 2 parallel routes is better than 10 lanes on 1 route, much less 8 lanes on 1 route.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Plus, don't forget the parallel 4-lane I-85 business. Not as fast but still, almost a freeway. 10 lanes on 2 parallel routes is better than 10 lanes on 1 route, much less 8 lanes on 1 route.

Very true. I always forget the business route.

Did some quick research, and found on NCDOT's Mobility Fund page that "In the spring of 2011, the Department expects to score and evaluate Mobility Fund candidate projects according to the final project criteria and selection process. Projects will be programmed as soon as funds are available."

Should be interesting to see what they come up with.

[go_vertical]

...or widening I-77 north of Charlotte?

Speaking of 77, are there any plans or even talks of widening it in the immediate south side of town? I'm talking about that whole stretch around Nations Ford, Tyvola, etc. I know that it is not absolutely horrible, but a mere six lanes going through the city seems a bit inadequate to me.

[Sabaidee]

Speaking of 77, are there any plans or even talks of widening it in the immediate south side of town? I'm talking about that whole stretch around Nations Ford, Tyvola, etc. I know that it is not absolutely horrible, but a mere six lanes going through the city seems a bit inadequate to me.

There are talks by NCDOT in the long range planning for it to be widen, 2030 and beyond however. The idea of double decking has been brought up due to severely limited right of way along I-77 South. Also NCDOT has been thinking of keeping I-77 South six lanes with a reversible elevated HOT/HOV lane in the middle of I-77.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Speaking of 77, are there any plans or even talks of widening it in the immediate south side of town? I'm talking about that whole stretch around Nations Ford, Tyvola, etc. I know that it is not absolutely horrible, but a mere six lanes going through the city seems a bit inadequate to me.

The Draft 2012-2018 STIP lists two feasibility studies that are in progress concerning I-77 south of Charlotte. They are described as FS-0810A: "I-77, South Carolina Line to 5th Street in Charlotte. Add additional lanes" (1.4 mile) and FS-0510A: "5th Street in Charlotte to I-85. Additional lanes and extension of HOV facility" (11.0 miles).

So yes, we're probably looking at 2020-2030 and beyond.

[cltbwimob]

Just a few quick notes:

The Monroe Bypass is set to begin construction in the coming months.

I-485 widening in south Charlotte may begin as early as next year.

Finally, a study indicating the Garden Parkway will add jobs in SC while costing jobs in NC and will cause a net loss in jobs overall, was just released this week. While I am not wholly against the idea of a bypass for Gastonia, I think the approximately $1 billion needed to build it would be better if used to build Gaston's commuter rail, the Red Line and widening 85 in Gaston County. All three would be a better use of money in my opinion and would almost certainly garner more support from citizens. Maybe in 20 years assuming the metro area continues to grow a bypass might be justified, but now the money has so many better uses.

[Sabaidee]

When will Independence and I-85 widening begin? Hmm, from a logistic point of view, all of Charlotte's major highways will be underconstruction when the DNC comes in town, doh.

[Spartan]

Just a few quick notes:

The Monroe Bypass is set to begin construction in the coming months.

I-485 widening in south Charlotte may begin as early as next year.

Finally, a study indicating the Garden Parkway will add jobs in SC while costing jobs in NC and will cause a net loss in jobs overall, was just released this week. While I am not wholly against the idea of a bypass for Gastonia, I think the approximately $1 billion needed to build it would be better if used to build Gaston's commuter rail, the Red Line and widening 85 in Gaston County. All three would be a better use of money in my opinion and would almost certainly garner more support from citizens. Maybe in 20 years assuming the metro area continues to grow a bypass might be justified, but now the money has so many better uses.

Adding jobs in South Carolina isn't necessarily a problem because it still benefits the Charlotte area as a whole. I think one of the larger problems of this region is that the North Carolina and South Carolina portions seem to operate as though the other doesn't exist. The jobs issue isn't the biggest concern. The real issue is that Gastonia doesn't need a bypass. They need another connection to Mecklenburg County though. I say take that money and build a new toll bridge over the Catawba and a surface road that connects to Gastonia.

[Sabaidee]

The DOT has made a few design changes and a few firsts interchange designs in the state to the I-85 widening and I-485 North East Leg. Mallard Creek and I-485 will be diverging diamond and I-85/I-485 will be a turbine design instead of a stack like I-77 South and I-485. Mallard Creek was supposed to be a SPUI interchange. More Info

I-485 and Mallard Creek. Popular Tent and I-85 will also use this design.

I-85/I-485 Interchange

I'm sad now, as a road junkie, I did want them to use the original design like in the DOT visualization. I like elaborate interchanges.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Shawn&Zae