Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[dcharlotte]

They are going to have two HOV lanes go into Uptown and then crunch them down to one lane to get onto I-277? Good luck with that merge.

[Midwoodian]

I think this is why the County Commission raised issues with the plans a few weeks ago...they want this looked into more.  My question is if the new lane designs (HOT flyover from 277 to 77 N) will alleviate the major backup that now occurs every afternoon with vehicles merging onto 77N from 277.  Also, with so much traffic merging onto 277 between the Independence W on ramp to the 277 N off-ramp, have traffic studies taken into account all of the lane changing and jockeying that will occur to get onto either the HOT lane flyover or the 77 N on ramp from 277?

 

 

They are going to have two HOV lanes go into Uptown and then crunch them down to one lane to get onto I-277? Good luck with that merge.

[Nolan]

It was the City Council that raised the issue, the County doesn't deal with transportation issues in Charlotte. Their main concern was about the merging where the flyover ramp ends right before the Graham Street underpass on Inner 277 and the potential HOT users trying to merge onto the 11th Street exit from the far left side crossing over 3 lanes of traffic. 

[dubone]

I'm sure they figure that many will go straight and stay on 77 and there is a plan to add HOV lanes on 77 south of 277, so presumably it would handle it.  Regardless, there will alway be a bottleneck somewhere.  That's the fundamental problem with freeways as commuting infrastructure in the first place.  

 

i was pleasantly surprised that they are adding the lanes to 277 itself all the way to Brevard.  I hadn't realized that was part of the plan, but will definitely also alleviate the congestion for getting on 77 from 277. 

[tozmervo]

Wasn't NCDOT conducting a study of all the exits on 277? I don't know that I ever heard any outcome from that. Kinda wanted to see a proposal that moves the Davidson St exits to Caldwell/Parkwood and make the latter 2-way. 

[dcharlotte]

I'm sure they figure that many will go straight and stay on 77 and there is a plan to add HOV lanes on 77 south of 277, so presumably it would handle it.  Regardless, there will alway be a bottleneck somewhere.  That's the fundamental problem with freeways as commuting infrastructure in the first place.  

 

i was pleasantly surprised that they are adding the lanes to 277 itself all the way to Brevard.  I hadn't realized that was part of the plan, but will definitely also alleviate the congestion for getting on 77 from 277. 

 

 

While a fundamental problem with freeways, the idea behind the HOT lanes is to be able to manage the amount of traffic.  Creating a bottleneck that will obviously cause backups will increase the price on the other sections of the road so that the prices are artificially high.

[southslider]

The private concessionaire would design their product to maximize profits. When you privatize infrastructure, shareholders have more say than taxpayers.

[Nolan]

Wasn't NCDOT conducting a study of all the exits on 277? I don't know that I ever heard any outcome from that. Kinda wanted to see a proposal that moves the Davidson St exits to Caldwell/Parkwood and make the latter 2-way. 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Transportation/PlansProjects/Pages/Uptown%20Loop%20Study.aspx

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/Transportation/PlansProjects/Documents/Brookshire%20Freeway%20Concepts%20-%20Graham%20to%20Davidson.pdf

 

The DavidsonStreet/Caldwell proposal. 

[tozmervo]

Oh. hey. look at that. I approve.

[dubone]

All the Loop Study did was show how NCDOT now understands that the point of 277 is avoid uptown Charlotte, so they now plan to design the freeway to eliminate access to the freeway from uptown, so that cars can successfully move past uptown Charlotte as quickly as possible to their happy lives far away from it.   They also plan to remove all those pesky old designs that require cars to drop to an ungodly 55mph.  

 - Brought to us by NCDOT engineers living in Albumuyrl.  

[southslider]

The point of 277 is to circulate and distribute Uptown traffic, not bypass it. Bypassing traffic would just stay on 77.

[dubone]

Not according to the designs NCDOT is pushing.   Why exactly does traffic being distributed around uptown need to to have exits removed so that speed limits can be raised?  Exits are being removed to increase safety at higher speeds.  This was a constant theme of the public meetings with NCDOT:  higher speeds, less access. 

[southslider]

Quality, not quantity. Better exit design could handle more traffic, if done right at fewer exits

[dcharlotte]

Not according to the designs NCDOT is pushing.   Why exactly does traffic being distributed around uptown need to to have exits removed so that speed limits can be raised?  Exits are being removed to increase safety at higher speeds.  This was a constant theme of the public meetings with NCDOT:  higher speeds, less access. 

You have to be able to move more cars from the booming suburban node of Mooresville and Monroe. They can't take 485!

[orulz]

Fewer exits takes up less land.

[ArtieP]

The City took some aerials of the turbine interchange.  Gettting close to completition!

 

[Nolan]

The turbine design looks amazing from the air, but going underneath it's so so, it just feel massive. 

[dubone]

In a way, it is smart to have the land reserved in case of future expansion and HOT and transit plus the obvious near-term cost savings from the shorter bridge spans.   

 

 

I do hope they can find some good use for the land other than just high-maintenance grass, such as for some solar farm or wind.

[Third Strike]

The opening of the last leg of I-485 has been delayed until Spring 2015:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/24/5264261/i-485-outer-loop-completion-in.html

[MilZ]

The opening of the last leg of I-485 has been delayed until Spring 2015:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/24/5264261/i-485-outer-loop-completion-in.html

Concrete can't set below 50 degrees? I guess that's why there's only one road in Canada.

 

[dubone]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/29/5275191/cornelius-based-anti-toll-lanes.html

 

If only the anti-(unlimited budgets for encouraging exurban sprawl) groups could join together.   

 

Anti-toll positions are easy for demagogues because everyone easily forgets that we pay for freeways too, yet we pay more for freeways because of the inefficient use of them.  

[jednc]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/10/29/5275191/cornelius-based-anti-toll-lanes.html

 

If only the anti-(unlimited budgets for encouraging exurban sprawl) groups could join together.   

 

Anti-toll positions are easy for demagogues because everyone easily forgets that we pay for freeways too, yet we pay more for freeways because of the inefficient use of them.  

I think the group fighting the tolls on 77 argues that we all pay for freeways to be built and the state has funneled that money to build freeways in less congested parts of the state. Now that it's finally 77's turn to be widened (for the first time along much of this route), they expect to not have to a toll to build a road which they think they've already contributed tax money for. It's a pretty logical argument.

[southslider]

I only resent that the toll strategy isn't evenly applied. I-85 has twice as many free lanes as I-77. If it's truly a good way to manage capacity, why still build or maintain so much free capacity on other freeways in our region and state?

[jednc]

I only resent that the toll strategy isn't evenly applied. I-85 has twice as many free lanes as I-77. If it's truly a good way to manage capacity, why still build or maintain so much free capacity on other freeways in our region and state?

I think this is also a major argument of the Widen I-77 group although I think bottom line is they would be against all tolls.

[RiverwoodCLT]

The RTP area has totals on I540 in western Wake County and southern Durham county.