Tallahassee Public Schools

[Florida]

Stupid in America

(From a 20/20 Special)

After watching tonight's issue of 20/20 I found myself wondering how the forum here feels about our Local Public School system.

Should we shut down schools that fail?

Is more money really the answer for better schools?

Are American homes fostering the education of the children?

Is the new "American Culture" to blame for failing students?

Would you support revoking 1/2 cent tax for schools?

[gatoremt]

Stupid in America

(From a 20/20 Special)

After watching tonight's issue of 20/20 I found myself wondering how the forum here feels about our Local Public School system.

Should we shut down schools that fail?

Is more money really the answer for better schools?

Are American homes fostering the education of the children?

Is the new "American Culture" to blame for failing students?

Would you support revoking 1/2 cent tax for schools?

I dont believe more money is the answer. I feel the New Americam culture is the BLAME. I believe the biggest problem is the home life. If the parents do care the kids usually fall behind. I say the 1/2 cent sales tax is ok, it has helped to do a lot for the schools which is good.

[BHCav]

My daughter started kindergarden this year at Gilchrist and we are not very happen with that school at all. It has some serious deficiencies and are to numerous to list. What ticks me off is that we moved to the Killearn area because of the perception that the schools are better north of I-10(which they probably are, but that itself is sad).

[jpl02]

I hate public schools. As a product of one, I know I'm not sending my kids to one.

The issue is not money........it's HOW the money is ALLOCATED. The problem with public schools, like many institutions in America, is that it's becomed so damnned politicized and overtaken by "the law". Education has gone down the drain, replaced with the wants and so-called needs of its faculty and staff. The money is there, but it's not spent wisely.

I've done a LOT of volunteer work at an elementary school near my home in Miami, and let me tell you from dealing and interacting with the teachers, most don't care anymore. They're doing the minimal to get by. Partly not their fault since they've somewhat screwed over by the political demands of higher ups (among other things), but partly because some are not just good teachers.

The bottom line is: public schools are too politicized and are wasters of money. Why does the Dade County Public Schools superintendent get paid more than President Bush? Why does it cost X amount of money per pupil to get Y results, when some places are spending less and doing better?

Here's my pessimistic view of the world. I have my own personal gripe with the Leon County school system, but that's off topic.

[gatoremt]

I went to a private school my whole life and I hated it. I do believe that public schools are to politicized. Politices have no business in schools. But that can be blamed on a lot of things, the union for one. They need to get back to teaching school the way they did 50 years ago. Also students are a big problem also. There is no Discipline. I am not saying that kids need to beat in school but there is no fear. Time Out just does not work IMO. Kids, Parents, and Teachers need to held accountable.

[EbonyGardens]

It falls on the parents. Today's youth have a lot more on their plate than ever before. Some of them come from single parent homes where their mom/dad works 3 jobs just to make ends meet, which leaves the oldest child to get his/her younger brothers/sisters dressed and ready, then he/she also has to do the same. All of that takes a toll on a child. I honestly feel that teachers are doing all they can to make a difference in children's lives but how can people expect teachers to do their jobs when 80% of the time, they're dealing with problem students? Teachers are too busy trying to restore order in their classroom, and the more time the teacher spends on problem students, the less instructional time they have. With all the pressures kids are facing, it's difficult for them to put all their focus on their studies. There are those students who are going through pure hell & still manage to pull a 3.5-4.0 in school, those are the students that are working with the cards life dealt them, those are few & far between. Today's parents just don't instill in their children the importance of a good education, they let their kids play X-Box when they should be asking their child if they have any homework, or the kid should be picking up a book to read. Parents need to drill it into their kids' heads that they are in school to learn, not to act like a damn fool. What these kids don't understand is that by refusing to do their work, they aren't hurting the teacher, they're hurting themselves. That teacher has his/her degree.

"Without education, you aren't going anywhere in this world"-Malcolm X

[TD]

I would never send my kid to a private school.... public schools are far better because you arent sheltering your kids from the real world. when they arent around rich white kids all the time, they wont know what to do.

[BHCav]

I would never send my kid to a private school.... public schools are far better because you arent sheltering your kids from the real world. when they arent around rich white kids all the time, they wont know what to do.

Weak arguement when you consider poor blacks go to NFC.

[TD]

that cannot be true, NFC is a very expensive school. so they must not be poor, and if they are wasting their money on school then thats dumb

[BHCav]

that cannot be true, NFC is a very expensive school. so they must not be poor, and if they are wasting their money on school then thats dumb

I'm not going to get into this but you're wrong again. There are ways to get into private schools for the poor, and it's not exactly rocket science either. I went there for a year and poor minorities attended.

One of these days I'll learn to ignore asinine posts.

[gatoremt]

I would never send my kid to a private school.... public schools are far better because you arent sheltering your kids from the real world. when they arent around rich white kids all the time, they wont know what to do.

I think I am doing pretty good in the real world and I went to a rich private school.

[Go Gators]

It falls on the parents. Today's youth have a lot more on their plate than ever before. Some of them come from single parent homes where their mom/dad works 3 jobs just to make ends meet, which leaves the oldest child to get his/her younger brothers/sisters dressed and ready, then he/she also has to do the same. All of that takes a toll on a child. I honestly feel that teachers are doing all they can to make a difference in children's lives but how can people expect teachers to do their jobs when 80% of the time, they're dealing with problem students? Teachers are too busy trying to restore order in their classroom, and the more time the teacher spends on problem students, the less instructional time they have. With all the pressures kids are facing, it's difficult for them to put all their focus on their studies. There are those students who are going through pure hell & still manage to pull a 3.5-4.0 in school, those are the students that are working with the cards life dealt them, those are few & far between. Today's parents just don't instill in their children the importance of a good education, they let their kids play X-Box when they should be asking their child if they have any homework, or the kid should be picking up a book to read. Parents need to drill it into their kids' heads that they are in school to learn, not to act like a damn fool. What these kids don't understand is that by refusing to do their work, they aren't hurting the teacher, they're hurting themselves. That teacher has his/her degree.

"Without education, you aren't going anywhere in this world"-Malcolm X

I was going to reply, but this pretty much would sum up my post. The solutions to 99% of society's problems can be found at home.

I would never send my kid to a private school.... public schools are far better because you arent sheltering your kids from the real world. when they arent around rich white kids all the time, they wont know what to do.

Again, TD, when you make a post like that, you have to expand on what you mean. Explain the "rich white kids" remark.

[Glenn]

I would never send my kid to a private school.... public schools are far better because you arent sheltering your kids from the real world. when they arent around rich white kids all the time, they wont know what to do.

TD, I've worked & volunteered in many schools (public & private) in many cities & all the private schools I'm aware of in multiple cities, including Tallahassee, encourage diversity. They all offered full and/or partial scholarships for all races and backgrounds. It's your choice on whether your children go to a public or private school & I won't condemn your choice either way but please don't show your ignorance by generalizing that all private schools cater to only "rich white kids". I will have to say, however, that the majority of kids in the private schools I volunteered at showed more respect towards adults & seemed to want to be there to learn.

[EbonyGardens]

the majority of kids in the private schools I volunteered at showed more respect towards adults & seemed to want to be there to learn.

Private school kids come from upper-class homes where the parents are educated & education is highly valued, in turn the kids become serious about their studies. Not too many low-income families value education.

[Florida]

^Oh Pardon me sir, but you do not speak for most low-income families. If they didn't value education, they wouldn't send their children to ANY type of school.

Truth is, many parents of low-income families spend more time working low wage jobs which keeps them from caring for their children the way the parents who earn a living wage care for theirs (no matter the race). Often these parents are so worried about how they're going to keep the lights on that they can't spend time going over homework assignments with their children, or keep up with school calenders to know when report cards are due.

Low-income families want most for their children to succeed in school so they can grow to make a better life for themselves than the parents were able to provide. I strongly disagree with the comment about poor families not caring about education.

[JBarber]

My daughter started kindergarden this year at Gilchrist and we are not very happen with that school at all. It has some serious deficiencies and are to numerous to list. What ticks me off is that we moved to the Killearn area because of the perception that the schools are better north of I-10(which they probably are, but that itself is sad).

BH - I'm curious to hear your beef with Gilchrist. We have a 1st grader there and could not be happier. It is easily the best elementary school in Leon and one of the best in the state. (Florida top 100). Most folks are surprised that the school outperforms DeSoto Trail and Hawks Rise, but it happens regularly.

I concede that the construction is making a mess of drop-off and pick-up, but it is temporary. I also questioned the need for an upgraded lunchroom (their big capital project) when they had to pull in three more portable classrooms this summer for a total of 9 (I think). But after a little consideration, it is the right move. They are feeding kids from 10:30 to 1:30, and each class has 22 minutes to eat and clear out. They need to narrow the lunch hour(s) for the kids' sake, and provide a few more minutes for eating and socializing. We are lucky that our 1st grader got a 10:55 lunch time (the last of the 1st grade classes) - 10:30 is just too early and disrupts the students prime learning time in the morning. And I can only imagine that 4th and 5th graders are famished at 1:00 when they have been at school since 7:45. As an adult, my stomach thinks my throat has been cut by noon and I have to eat.

A new classroom wing is on the drawing board, but IMO not as important as I first thought. As a kindergartner, my son was in a portable and did not bat an eye. The teacher enjoyed being separated from the rest of the school because of fewer distractions.

If you don't mind, who is your teacher? We had Ricardo and absolutely loved her. My wife volunteered in the class every week and I was there every other week. It is the best way to keep abreast of what is going on in the classroom and it is fun to work with the kids.

If there is something you need remedied contact the pricipal, Scotty Crowe. He is easy to talk to and accepts constructive criticism - and most importantly, he acts on it. We had a meeting with the first Thursday of school. School is just starting, don't let the first couple of weeks ruin you and your kid's experience.

[Florida]

Thanks for posting that list of schools. I'd expected to see more Leon County schools on the list, but was surprised at the great number of Brevard County schools in the top 10.

[BHCav]

BH - I'm curious to hear your beef with Gilchrist. We have a 1st grader there and could not be happier. It is easily the best elementary school in Leon and one of the best in the state. (Florida top 100). Most folks are surprised that the school outperforms DeSoto Trail and Hawks Rise, but it happens regularly.

I concede that the construction is making a mess of drop-off and pick-up, but it is temporary. I also questioned the need for an upgraded lunchroom (their big capital project) when they had to pull in three more portable classrooms this summer for a total of 9 (I think). But after a little consideration, it is the right move. They are feeding kids from 10:30 to 1:30, and each class has 22 minutes to eat and clear out. They need to narrow the lunch hour(s) for the kids' sake, and provide a few more minutes for eating and socializing. We are lucky that our 1st grader got a 10:55 lunch time (the last of the 1st grade classes) - 10:30 is just too early and disrupts the students prime learning time in the morning. And I can only imagine that 4th and 5th graders are famished at 1:00 when they have been at school since 7:45. As an adult, my stomach thinks my throat has been cut by noon and I have to eat.

A new classroom wing is on the drawing board, but IMO not as important as I first thought. As a kindergartner, my son was in a portable and did not bat an eye. The teacher enjoyed being separated from the rest of the school because of fewer distractions.

If you don't mind, who is your teacher? We had Ricardo and absolutely loved her. My wife volunteered in the class every week and I was there every other week. It is the best way to keep abreast of what is going on in the classroom and it is fun to work with the kids.

If there is something you need remedied contact the pricipal, Scotty Crowe. He is easy to talk to and accepts constructive criticism - and most importantly, he acts on it. We had a meeting with the first Thursday of school. School is just starting, don't let the first couple of weeks ruin you and your kid's experience.

I don't want to say the name but it wasn't Ricardo. We've already talked to the school and have another meeting already scheduled. I believe it is too late though, since we will probably move her to a different school now. We have less than two years until I am done with school here, so it's not that big of a deal.

As for Gilchrist's deficiencies, well, there are literally to many to list.

[ghostOFtheSuwanee]

^Oh Pardon me sir, but you do not speak for most low-income families. If they didn't value education, they wouldn't send their children to ANY type of school.

Truth is, many parents of low-income families spend more time working low wage jobs which keeps them from caring for their children the way the parents who earn a living wage care for theirs (no matter the race). Often these parents are so worried about how they're going to keep the lights on that they can't spend time going over homework assignments with their children, or keep up with school calenders to know when report cards are due.

Low-income families want most for their children to succeed in school so they can grow to make a better life for themselves than the parents were able to provide. I strongly disagree with the comment about poor families not caring about education.

You're spot on. Momma's from the less affluent side of the tracks are just as anxious for their kids to succeed.

My beef with the education system is with the testing that determines whether a school is A, B, C or D or X or Y or Z. I know that the current bunch running things at the capital love to count stuff and make reports and hold people accountable and all (I just had this vision of Jeb in a Count Von Count outfit), but from what I can tell, those tests don't really mean much. All they really test is the ability to take tests which once you get out of the education system, doesn't mean anything. Teachers I know say that since the funky lit and other state required tests came into being, that they spend way too much time getting students ready for the tests and way too little time teaching the important stuff. Of course, they spend the other half of their time filling out forms and writing reports for those same big government bean counters.

The same guy? You decide.

Count Von Count:

Jeb:

[poonther]

I don't want to say the name but it wasn't Ricardo. We've already talked to the school and have another meeting already scheduled. I believe it is too late though, since we will probably move her to a different school now. We have less than two years until I am done with school here, so it's not that big of a deal.

As for Gilchrist's deficiencies, well, there are literally to many to list.

I've done extensive mentoring and volunteering in the Leon County Schools, so much so, that I was awarded mentor of the year. Not singing my praises, just trying to make the point that I do know a little about Leon County Schools. That said, I've heard nothing but PRAISES about Gilchrist. Everything that JB has said, I've heard. I've also hear everyone sing the praises of Scotty Crowe and know his wife personally. So you must just be having an odd time of it.

I must say however that 2 years is a lifetime to an elementary school kid. If they are six, that's almost a third of their life. To us old folks, sure 2 years is nothing, but to kid two years is a lot. If you are so unhappy here and still have 2 more years, why not transfer out to another college? I'd never spend my life somewhere I disliked as much as you say you dislike Tally. If you aren't going to work for a positive change here, you are part of the problem.

Don't even get me started on the F-Crap test Ghost.

[Go Gators]

Yea, heaven forbid we expect our kids to be able to pass grade level tests.

[poonther]

Yea, heaven forbid we expect our kids to be able to pass grade level tests.

Exactly, none of us want that at all and that's why we are against the FCAT.

Gimme-a-break, of course we all want that and expect that of our public schools. The argument isn't about whether the FCAT is good or bad, it's about how it's administered and how much weight is given it. Schools have become nothing more than FCAT incubators where everything is centered around teaching the FCAT only. That's where the argument lies.

[BHCav]

I've done extensive mentoring and volunteering in the Leon County Schools, so much so, that I was awarded mentor of the year. Not singing my praises, just trying to make the point that I do know a little about Leon County Schools. That said, I've heard nothing but PRAISES about Gilchrist. Everything that JB has said, I've heard. I've also hear everyone sing the praises of Scotty Crowe and know his wife personally. So you must just be having an odd time of it.

I must say however that 2 years is a lifetime to an elementary school kid. If they are six, that's almost a third of their life. To us old folks, sure 2 years is nothing, but to kid two years is a lot. If you are so unhappy here and still have 2 more years, why not transfer out to another college? I'd never spend my life somewhere I disliked as much as you say you dislike Tally. If you aren't going to work for a positive change here, you are part of the problem.

Don't even get me started on the F-Crap test Ghost.

Have you ever "mentored" at Gilchrist? If so maybe you can answer these questions:

Why are kindergardeners allowed to wonder around the school unsupervised?

Why are adults allowed to do the same without having to check in?

Why are children left unsupervised in the lunchroom (kindergardeners no less)?

How can my daughter be called to the front office by mistake, and then be forced to "wait" in the office for over an hour because no one is willing to return her to her classroom (inturn missing snack time and activities)?

Why does my daughter only spend 2 hours per day in a classroom?

Why do I have teach my daughter how to read or write because, per the teacher, they do not have time for it?

I have more but I'm not going to list them.

As for living here, I'm in grad school so I'm not just going to up and leave. I spent many years here prior, hence going to FSU for the familiarity. Trust me, I'll be the first to admit it was a mistake, since I was accepted to far more prestigous schools than FSU. I love Tally but I hate the way things are run in this town. Once you move away and see how the rest of the country works it becomes hard to take the ineptness of your hometown. I wish nothing but the best for Tally, but the majority of it's citizens want it to remain in the 19th century.

[Florida]

I wish nothing but the best for Tally, but the majority of it's citizens want it to remain in the 19th century.

I disagree. I think its fairly clear, just based on the mandate handed to John Marks tonight, that Tallahasseeans want positive growth and change. Sure there are old things that we have as part of this community that make us unique. Somethings I like, others I don't. Take for instance the number of trees still standing in the CBD of Tallahassee. Any person with a mind for economics would tell you that great number of trees distracts from an area's potential to grow, yet we allow them to stand because of their historical significance.

The things I have the greatest problem with are things that government can't control. Look at private businesses in this community. With exception of very few places, non-government, business leaders are satisified with the fact that this community is underserved on many fronts. That is why I'm always so happy to hear about a new company coming to town rather than offering incentives to ones we already have. Heck, if they wanted to expand and grow, they'd have done it long ago.

Most citizens have their hands tied. Those with the money aren't investing in the community, and the government (city government, rather) is doing all it can to pick up some of the slack.

[Go Gators]

Exactly, none of us want that at all and that's why we are against the FCAT.

Gimme-a-break, of course we all want that and expect that of our public schools. The argument isn't about whether the FCAT is good or bad, it's about how it's administered and how much weight is given it. Schools have become nothing more than FCAT incubators where everything is centered around teaching the FCAT only. That's where the argument lies.

I wasnt implying that at all.

People say "all that's being taught anymore is the FCAT." Well, I say, what were we teaching our kids before that was not up to the national standards that students in other states were accomplishing? Since the FCAT, that gap has been closing consistently. Which is worse?