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Really bad exposure for South Carolina


monsoon

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In terms of having it on 9/11, well, you can't please everyone. I remember people complaing about the new Nicholas Cage 9/11 movie, saying that it is "too early for people to be profiting off of such a tragedy." How long are we supposed to wait, then? Is 5 years not long enough? Who are we supposed to consult in order to find out how long is long enough to move on?

Finally, if that dove hunt event does indeed give SC "bad exposure," then doesn't posting it here do exactly the same thing?!?

As a New Yorker, 5 years is nothing. We're talking about the lives of 3000+ people who were husbands, mothers, sons, sisters. Fortunately, I didn't lose anyone close, but even still the ramifications of that day are inescapable in daily life on the island of Manhattan (I imagine it's the same in the corridors of the Pentagon). Whether it's taking the A, C, or E train and seeing the World Trade Center name or hearing it voiced by the conductor, looking downtown from 6th Avenue, 7th Avenue, etc and seeing nothing but empty sky or seeing heavily armed NYPD officers who are there to make sure I get to work safely. It is fitting, though, that it's a political fundraiser for a Republican - a party that can't seem to shoot straight and that wrote the book on political opportunism in the wake of the grief of the love ones of the 3000+ victims.

Big city politics are not relevant here. All she is doing is a fund raiser targeted at rural folks. This is the most fuss over a non-issue I've seen in a while.

Is 9/11 "big city politics?" I thought it was a day for all Americans (not just "big city folks") to collectively mourn the losses we collectively suffered that day.

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Why does it sound like this discussion is placing the burden of dealing with this stereotype firmly on the people being stereotyped? If we were talking about a negative stereotype of most any other group - the outrage would be about the backwards people who subscribe to the stereotype, not on the people being unfairly characterized.

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I abhor hunting so I don't like the fact of using hunting as a fundraiser for anything. The real reason I don't like Karen Floyd, though, is her ultra conservative, religious right politics. She would be the worst thing to happen to SC's educational system in years. How in the world can someone wanting to become the state superintendent of PUBLIC schools support private school vouchers? This is an abomination. Vouchers are bogus.

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As a New Yorker, 5 years is nothing. We're talking about the lives of 3000+ people who were husbands, mothers, sons, sisters. Fortunately, I didn't lose anyone close, but even still the ramifications of that day are inescapable in daily life on the island of Manhattan (I imagine it's the same in the corridors of the Pentagon). Whether it's taking the A, C, or E train and seeing the World Trade Center name or hearing it voiced by the conductor, looking downtown from 6th Avenue, 7th Avenue, etc and seeing nothing but empty sky or seeing heavily armed NYPD officers who are there to make sure I get to work safely. It is fitting, though, that it's a political fundraiser for a Republican - a party that can't seem to shoot straight and that wrote the book on political opportunism in the wake of the grief of the love ones of the 3000+ victims.

I would be inclined to agree; 5 years really isn't a very long time. It actually seems like it was only 2 years ago. And being that nothing as of yet has been built on the site is a stark reminder of the tragedy that occurred that day. And I think your statement about Republicans is representative of what most folks would think when they would see that flyer. In other words, in isn't as much bad exposure for the state (if at all) as it is potentially bad exposure for the Republican Party.

Is 9/11 "big city politics?" I thought it was a day for all Americans (not just "big city folks") to collectively mourn the losses we collectively suffered that day.

I think Spartan's statement there was in reference to the larger Southern cities moonshield mentioned as it regards image and reputation, not the tragedy of 9/11 itself.

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I would be inclined to agree; 5 years really isn't a very long time.

I still remember 9/11 like it was yesterday! What i did, where i was, who i called.... i knew at least a half dozen people who were near the Trade Center that day but did not work there. Fortunately, everyone i knew was ok but the people i know who were there knew people that did die.

Sometimes people tend to forget too quickly about catastropic events that happend in the past.

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Being able to move on from a tragedy, or perhaps in this case, deciding to move on, does not mean that you forget the magnitude of what happened. My question asking if 5 years had been long enough was not intended to minimize 9/11 - we were ALL affected, regardless of where we live. The point, however, is that we can either learn from it and move on or we can remain stuck on September 11, 2001 forever and allow it to hinder our progress in the future. It's up to us.

Forumer RestedTraveler used to have a signature on his posts that read "the past is a guidepost, not a hitching post." That is very appropriate here, I think.

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Big city politics are not relevant here. All she is doing is a fund raiser targeted at rural folks. This is the most fuss over a non-issue I've seen in a while.

Very well said.

While I can understand somewhat about the date, I cannot comprehend why anyone has a problem with a dove hunt. I hope all the forumers up in arms about hunting are vegetarians, otherwise they are hypocrites. A wild animal/bird that loses its life in a split second, after living it's entire life free, is exponentially more humane than raising chickens, cows or hogs in a 'livestock factory' where the animal/bird never lives a moment free, and it's feet have only touched concrete or wire mesh.

Such cultural cluelessness is why the rural south is so turned off by Democrats/liberals.

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Do they plan to actually eat these doves because they are hungry? If so, then I don't have an issue out of it. However if the plan is to just shoot them for the enjoyment of it, then yes it is senseless, unnecessary, and sets a bad image considering that we are talking about a potential head of the Board of Education.

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While I can understand somewhat about the date, I cannot comprehend why anyone has a problem with a dove hunt. I hope all the forumers up in arms about hunting are vegetarians, otherwise they are hypocrites. A wild animal/bird that loses its life in a split second, after living it's entire life free, is exponentially more humane than raising chickens, cows or hogs in a 'livestock factory' where the animal/bird never lives a moment free, and it's feet have only touched concrete or wire mesh.

OK, this is REALLY getting off-topic here, but commensalism (e.g., the raising of domesticated animals) actually benefits livestock in an evolutionary sense because we breed them; that is, we are propagating their species. Sure we eventually eat them, but a wild animal that lives its entire life free only to be killed for sport could potentially be the last of its species, and that doesn't do it any good. Humans do all the work for livestock that free animals attempt to do on their own. But I don't want to get bogged down in "animal ethics" here, but I did wish to point that out.

And I've always wondered if it was a grammatical/etymological violation to use the word "humane" in reference to animals, despite its contemporary connotations.

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OK, this is REALLY getting off-topic here, but commensalism (e.g., the raising of domesticated animals) actually benefits livestock in an evolutionary sense because we breed them; that is, we are propagating their species. Sure we eventually eat them, but a wild animal that lives its entire life free only to be killed for sport could potentially be the last of its species, and that doesn't do it any good. Humans do all the work for livestock that free animals attempt to do on their own. But I don't want to get bogged down in "animal ethics" here, but I did wish to point that out.

And I've always wondered if it was a grammatical/etymological violation to use the word "humane" in reference to animals, despite its contemporary connotations.

I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I don't think hunting can be blamed for extinctions in MODERN times. Hunting is based on seasons, and is off limits to endangered species. Loss of habitat due to sprawling development is likely the largest reason for extinctions in modern times.

Also, many species would overpopulate and die of disease and starvation, if hunters did not thin out the ranks. Humans kill animals, just a big animals kill smaller ones. It's just nature's way.

I don't know if the doves will be eaten or sold/given to someone you will consume it. Either way, the species is not endangered, and is just as likely to lose it's life to a predator in the wild anyway.

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I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I don't think hunting can be blamed for extinctions in MODERN times. Hunting is based on seasons, and is off limits to endangered species. Loss of habitat due to sprawling development is likely the largest reason for extinctions in modern times.

Also, many species would overpopulate and die of disease and starvation, if hunters did not thin out the ranks. Humans kill animals, just a big animals kill smaller ones. It's just nature's way.

I don't know if the doves will be eaten or sold/given to someone you will consume it. Either way, the species is not endangered, and is just as likely to lose it's life to a predator in the wild anyway.

I probably should have said "theoretically" instead of "potentially." At any rate, humans ensure that domesticated species stay around in healthy numbers because it's crucial to sustaining our large-scale societies. But I was essentially pointing out what you have just mentioned--humans are predators as well. We simply provide resources (including mates) to our prey (livestock) before we kill them. In a way, you could argue that this is more "humane" than hunting free animals.

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OK, this is REALLY getting off-topic here, but commensalism (e.g., the raising of domesticated animals) actually benefits livestock in an evolutionary sense because we breed them; that is, we are propagating their species. Sure we eventually eat them, but a wild animal that lives its entire life free only to be killed for sport could potentially be the last of its species, and that doesn't do it any good. Humans do all the work for livestock that free animals attempt to do on their own. But I don't want to get bogged down in "animal ethics" here, but I did wish to point that out.

And I've always wondered if it was a grammatical/etymological violation to use the word "humane" in reference to animals, despite its contemporary connotations.

Plus, I don't think people who work in cattle yards get off on killing a cow like hunters get off on shooting Bambi with a high-powered gun.

To me, September 11th is not the right time to have any type of functions related to political fundraisers. But I expect nothing different from the Republican Party---horrible politicians. (Sorry, I'm having trouble thinking this morning and it comes out in my writing skills--or lack thereof I guess).

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Folks in this thread need to get out more. A hunting social is about as common in South Carolina as anything else.

My entire life I've known dove hunters, probably some of the best folks you'll ever meet. Dove season just started:

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/news/Yr2006/july31/july31_season.html

It's a fairly common event to hunt doves and then roast them later in the day, usually for dinner. Some of y'all should see if you can go to a dove roast, you'd probably enjoy it. Tender meat, goes great with chesses, green vegetables, etc.

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This thread has gone from the "bad exposure" of a dove hunt on 9/11 as a fundraiser, to the ethics of hunting, back to the date, to the daily traffic of a website i've never heard of, to the complete bashing of one political party.

Really, the only "bad exposure" i've seen while reading this is that of some of the UP posters.

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Folks in this thread need to get out more. A hunting social is about as common in South Carolina as anything else.

My entire life I've known dove hunters, probably some of the best folks you'll ever meet. Dove season just started:

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/news/Yr2006/july31/july31_season.html

It's a fairly common event to hunt doves and then roast them later in the day, usually for dinner. Some of y'all should see if you can go to a dove roast, you'd probably enjoy it. Tender meat, goes great with chesses, green vegetables, etc.

I'm sure it tastes great. Nothing wrong with hunting--just not my thing. I just think that having a big social function where everybody is having a grand old time is just a little insensitive on the 5 year anniversary of September 11th. There are people all over this country right now in tears remembering this date and what do these people do? They throw a party, invite their friends, and go hunting to raise money for their political campaign. It's in bad taste, plain and simple.

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While this perhaps shows bad judgement and maybe insensitivity, this is also quite possibly being blown way out of proportion. This is the south we are talking about here. These type of events take place here all the time and the thought of possibly offending people on this date probably never entered the minds of this candidate and her assistants.

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Plus, I don't think people who work in cattle yards get off on killing a cow like hunters get off on shooting Bambi with a high-powered gun.

Is the cow any less 'dead' than the deer? At least the deer got to enjoy it's life as nature intended it, in the wild, and not merely treated as a commodity. At least the deer was given a sporting chance, whereas the cow is doomed to an abbreviated life span from birth.

Deers are overpopulating as it is, and if not kept in check, many would dead of disease and starvation. It that more humane?

Many Deer/auto accidents have injured and even killed humans. A buck coming through your windshield can do plenty of damage to the occupant. More deer than habitat, exacerbates that problem.

And you wonder why hunters don't vote for Democrats, even if they are struggling to make ends meet, and see little benefit from GOP enacted tax cuts?

If a mill worker that hunts on the weekends, thinks that liberal Democrats look down on his culture, he isn't going to vote for them, regardless of his economic interests.

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I didn't mean to offend you. I was making a poor attempt at humor. Please look at my post above. I see nothing wrong with hunting. My point is it's not the same as people who kill cows for a living: one guy does it because he's paid to do it while the other guy does it because he enjoys it. There is a difference.

Also, I'm sorry you feel that way about the Democratic party. The national party doesn't do much to change its perception among Southerners. But, you know, I'm just as Southern as anyone else---just because I vote for Democrats doesn't negate that.

My beef with this whole thing is that people hunt because they enjoy it and when you get a group together it's even double the fun and I think it's ridiculous to have it on this date. No the world doesn't stop for September 11th, but it wouldn't hurt if people showed a little humility and tact. I know both of those qualities are in short supply nowadays, but it wouldn't hurt if people just tried a little bit--especially people who are running for a political position. At least they could pretend to care even if they don't.

Also, what kind of people get to take off a Monday to go hunting in the first place?

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If this were a bar-b-que at some supporter's back yard or an afternoon of fishing, would anyone notice? Would this be "bad exposure" for South Carolina?

I think it's mostly because folks see the word "dove", don't really know much about the bird in question, and think that doves look mostly like what they see on the side of the bar of soap.

Dove_325.jpg

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Is the cow any less 'dead' than the deer? At least the deer got to enjoy it's life as nature intended it, in the wild, and not merely treated as a commodity. At least the deer was given a sporting chance, whereas the cow is doomed to an abbreviated life span from birth.

Firstly, this isn't unique to humans.

Secondly, it could be argued that we make it easier for the livestock we humans raise by providing them with the resources they would be scrounging around for in the wild, which is essentially tied to reproduction (and we ensure that this occurs in order to sustain human populations). At any rate, I don't see the inherent "evil" in domestication or the raising of livestock.

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If this were a bar-b-que at some supporter's back yard or an afternoon of fishing, would anyone notice? Would this be "bad exposure" for South Carolina?

I think it's mostly because folks see the word "dove", don't really know much about the bird in question, and think that doves look mostly like what they see on the side of the bar of soap.

Dove_325.jpg

Doves are just small pigeons, they are the same bird. I think people have a problem with holding a political fundraiser on September 11th. Please don't tell me when they planned it that the date didn't ring a bell.

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If a mill worker that hunts on the weekends, thinks that liberal Democrats look down on his culture, he isn't going to vote for them, regardless of his economic interests.

It's been my experience that most hunters only kill the animals they plan to eat and I know plenty of people in SC who do hunt that also vote for Democrats. This is quite different from the SC country club set going out to shoot animals for the enjoyment of it. Somehow I just don't see Buffy and Skipper plucking feathers, gutting these doves then frying them up for dinner. And BTW, they would be the first to look down on the culture that you refer to and have no problem exploiting these people just like the doves they are shooting.

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