The City Club

[Captain Worley]

I'll explain my distaste for the project (hate is too strong a word):

1. It's gated and I'll rail against any totally gated community.

2. I don't like any clear-cut development, which this was.

3. Corgi, with all due respect, I don't think the faux stone wall looks like anything but plastic.

[krazeeboi]

I don't think I understand. That development is VERY small, and barely takes up ANY riverfront. If West Columbia wanted to put a park on the river, there are MILES of riverfront left to do that. I just don't see beautiful houses on the river as a bad thing. It's not like that small section is the ONLY part of the river that's left.

[emerging.me]

It's just got no soul! I can't think of a new development in downtown Columbia that does. Maybe CanalSide will? If Beach doesn't make it too bland. Duany gets this, so I have hope that Bull Street Neighborhood will have a heart. Developers need to understand that people today want places to feel special. That is how you build genuine, lasting value into an area. It's the art of place-making. New Urbanist developments nail this element all the time! You would think it'd be *exceedingly* difficult to create place that *wasn't* special along the West Columbia riverfront, but somehow they've has managed to do so. Maybe not everyone agrees with this notion, and it's just the way some of us are wired. It's frustrating for me to see our best development opportunities lost to projects that are so totally uninspiring. Anyway, I hold out some hope that the place will become better once the speculators bail on their lots and houses actually go up.

[krazeeboi]

I think the "soulless" vibe comes from just about any new development, particularly if it doesn't mimic some type of classic architecture. I just think that soul, heart, character, etc. all come with time.

As far as inspiring architecture goes, I think that's another thing altogether. I would like to see Columbia get a bit bolder with its architecture on all fronts.

[emerging.me]

I think the "soulless" vibe comes from just about any new development, particularly if it doesn't mimic some type of classic architecture. I just think that soul, heart, character, etc. all come with time.

As far as inspiring architecture goes, I think that's another thing altogether. I would like to see Columbia get a bit bolder with its architecture on all fronts.

[krazeeboi]

^Which NU developments would those be? I would think they would be those that have context, i.e. urban infill.

[TheSuperPope]

I actually disagree that a building can create the character of an area. Theroetically, its the people taht inhabit the area and what they do with the building. While not being aesthetically, or architecturally to me for that matter, five points is loaded soul and vibe. On the opposite end of the spectrum, not every NU development is loaded with soul... it comes with the people that inhabit that area.

[krazeeboi]

I do think that buildings have a great deal to do with the soul and vibe of an area. It's harder to have that element with newer buildings, which is why a constant complaint lodged against uptown Charlotte is that it's soulless or sterile. Buildings, particularly historic buildings, give a city a sense of place. I agree that it's ultimately the people that define a place (Macchu Picchu has tons of historic buildings, but no people), but buildings help a great deal with that.

[emerging.me]

I actually disagree that a building can create the character of an area. Theroetically, its the people taht inhabit the area and what they do with the building. While not being aesthetically, or architecturally to me for that matter, five points is loaded soul and vibe. On the opposite end of the spectrum, not every NU development is loaded with soul... it comes with the people that inhabit that area.

[TheSuperPope]

Progressive I can agree with

NU is harder to agree with... and I'm not going to point out any exapmles so that it doesnt seem like its a pissing contest.

I hate the oval windows

[emerging.me]

Progressive I can agree with

NU is harder to agree with... and I'm not going to point out any exapmles so that it doesnt seem like its a pissing contest.

I hate the oval windows

[Spartan]

Its actually been shown that favorable architecture, scale of the environment, and proper placement of things create better places when designed appropriately. The foundations of new urbanism lie in that principle. Form a design perspective, its better to have a well designed place than a poorly designed one. The ultimatel qualifier, however, is whether or not people will accept that design. People are hard to figure out. They just like some places more than others for some reason.

What we do know is that people like old neighborhoods, like Shandon, more than they like new ones. Most cities have at least one historic neighborhood (though some have more) that stands out as the model for other neighborhoods to follow. Typically these were designed in the early 20th century, they have large trees on the streets, they have sidewalks, they do NOT have snout garages, they have front porches, and typically the residents are the professional, upper-middle income or higher, class of workers, usually with families:

Columbia: Shandon

Spartanburg: Converse Heights

Anderson: Boulevard

Charlotte: Dilworth

Greenville: Augusta Street

Atlanta: Virginia-Highlands

Charleston: South of Broad

The problem is that these old neighborhoods are so rare that most people can't live there. New urbansim attempts to take these principles and reimplement what works in a new place. Its true that design alone cant solve the problem, but it is a critical step in correcting it.

[JT Boy]

Its actually been shown that favorable architecture, scale of the environment, and proper placement of things create better places when designed appropriately. The foundations of new urbanism lie in that principle. Form a design perspective, its better to have a well designed place than a poorly designed one. The ultimatel qualifier, however, is whether or not people will accept that design. People are hard to figure out. They just like some places more than others for some reason.

[emerging.me]

Wow - what a great discussion of urban design issues! Its exciting to read so many folks interested in planning and design issues, and in Columbia.

The issue for me about City Club is that it appears to have no connection to the urban fabric of the city. Its a gated complex with a putting range for gosh sakes, which just seems completely incongrous if you are trying to generate urban density and vibrancy. Its "gatedness" and distance from the street really scream out "Private property, nothing to see here folks, move along and let the owners have their privacy." Is there even an easy way for residents there to walk out of the complex into the rest of the city?

I'm no Pollyanna, I realize that development happens in the midst of market forces and a developer is limited by what they can get financed, and that bankers are somewhat limited in what they are willing to finance, and I would rather see a bad use of this land than no use of this land, but still, I can't believe that what is happening at City Club is the best possible outcome given all the various forces at play. It seems to me that it is more a product of mediocre thinking and very little vision. Columbia really needs bold thinking and planning to create a bold, forward-thinking city. Perhaps they already have this in Tom Prioreschi and his company...

[krazeeboi]

JT Boy, I think you're referring to Congaree Pointe in West Columbia in your post instead of City Club, which is not a gated development at all.

I think City Club should at least be praised for incorporating the reuse of a historic structure into the development.

I think once the condo market in Columbia matures, there will be more diversity in designs.

[JT Boy]

JT Boy, I think you're referring to Congaree Pointe in West Columbia in your post instead of City Club, which is not a gated development at all.

I think City Club should at least be praised for incorporating the reuse of a historic structure into the development.

I think once the condo market in Columbia matures, there will be more diversity in designs.

[krazeeboi]

City Club isn't gated.

And Congaree Point would be the development you're referring to with the faux stone walls.

[emerging.me]

City Club isn't gated.

And Congaree Point would be the development you're referring to with the faux stone walls.

[emerging.me]

I should add... as much as I have poo-poo'ed City Club and Congaree Park (I really don't dislike them as much as it may seem), this is the same guy that had planned/is planning the 5-story modern building with flats down from Ed's Editions on Meeting Street. That could be REALLY cool.

[krazeeboi]

City Club may not be gated yet, but the plan is to gate the parking lot. It won't be walled off or anything, but one of the amenties they're listing on the literature is "security system with gated community access."

[emerging.me]

I wasn't aware of that. I guess we'll have to see how that plays out.

[krazeeboi]

^Right; I feel the same way.

This guy had vision to build on this particular parcel to begin with, so he gets cool points from me. The Kline Steel project will only help cement that section of the Vista along Gervais into the overall Vista fabric.

[digital_sandlapper]

I should add... as much as I have poo-poo'ed City Club and Congaree Park (I really don't dislike them as much as it may seem), this is the same guy that had planned/is planning the 5-story modern building with flats down from Ed's Editions on Meeting Street. That could be REALLY cool.

[krazeeboi]

Emerging, I agree with your assessments of City Club and Congaree Park. The former is WAY TOO dense, removed from the rest of the urban fabric, and overwhelms you when you arrive into downtown.

[Captain Worley]

I should add... as much as I have poo-poo'ed City Club and Congaree Park (I really don't dislike them as much as it may seem), this is the same guy that had planned/is planning the 5-story modern building with flats down from Ed's Editions on Meeting Street. That could be REALLY cool.