Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Charlotte_native

Who is winning?

10 posts in this topic

If the goals of the Islamic Terrorists, Osama bin Ladin, and Al-queda are/were to destroy the way of life of Western Civilization, could they be winning?

In our fight to eliminate the terrorists many see that we have eroded many of our personal freedoms, our government watches us more than any time in history, at least 49% of the population does not feel represented by our representative government, we admit to secret prisons and virtually admit to torture (things completely against what we have always stood for), and many of us live in fear.

We hold people without charges and then consider taking them to trial without letting them view the evidence against them. We are slowly sinking financially with massive federal debt, much attributed to the out of control spending necessary in Iraq -- a war supposedly against terror. Politicians pander to our fears, and many of us submit.

Have they changed our way of life? Obviously so. Could we be playing into their plans? The war of attrition that worked on a small level in Afghanistan might be in play on a world-wide scale. Drain our resources, take our freedoms, make us live in fear, make our judicial system more like theirs, and make us the aggressors in the eyes of the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Bin Laden's cadre took the opportunity to bring down two towers and kill 3000+ people. A year later they were a broken organization. The Taliban, where they had been getting their shelter, was destroyed, many of Bin Laden's high command had been killed or captured, and the entire world had sympathy for what happened to the USA. There was even vast sympathy in the Middle East for what happened to the USA. Documents recovered, but kept out of the public's eyes, revealed an Al Queda leadership that was in total dispair. Not only was their terrorist machinery and financing mostly destroyed, but more importantly they were condemned by almost everyone in the world, including all enemies of the USA.

For a brief moment in time, the USA had all of the political capital and good will it needed to put an end to this organization and bring true peace to the Middle East. Yet it all slipped away.

What happened? Why is Al Queda on the rise again? Why are there wars there now? Why George Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq of course, and the continuing slaughter that takes place there everyday. Instead of using the good will and cooperation that came from the 9/11 tragedy, our President and the NeoCons that pull his strings used the event to start a war, spy on Americans, run secret torture prisons, and cause the deaths of thousands. To most of the world there is no difference in what Al Queda did, and what Bush did to Iraq.

This is why Al Queda is on the rise again, and I can tell you, the "Stay the Course" is a definate plan to lose. (unless you are benefit from the war profits, but that is another story)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why Al Queda is on the rise again, and I can tell you, the "Stay the Course" is a definate plan to lose. (unless you are benefit from the war profits, but that is another story)

Hail Haliburton then eh?

I'd say they managed to destroy our shell of innocence and our previous lives. Like Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, 9/11 awoke a sleeping giant, but this time the giant is half alseep or hung over recovering from a wild, drunken, and high night. His judgement is impaired and he is not all there.

Terrorists hide behind a highjacked religion, the lies they tell their ignorant, their so-hatred of the West (which is more jealousy and misunderstandings), and civilians while our war-mongers hide behind a highjacked religion, a long road of lies, a tattered American flag, and the ignorance of a lot of Americans while they make a doormat of our Constitution, legacy, and international image. Oh and they really don't like us backing Israel, but the land belongs to both of them, they just won't give peace a chance. Sad they can't share. If terrorists could see that we don't hate Muslims and our government did a better job at showing them that we don't and look how American Muslims live not as enemies and that we can all still get along under the same God, maybe things would go better. Maybe if we had more regard for Muslim holy lands and not always have an interest in their resources, making them feel used by an arrogant selfish country, maybe things would go better.

Then again too... I have no idea what I'm talking about. I could be completely wrong as usual. But that was an interesting qustion. They always said, don't stop living your lives as normal while we can't live that old normal. Everything's changed. I don't think anyone's really winning. Both sides are stubborn and missing points, so they're destined to butt heads forever unless someone wises up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you have a President who makes speaches where he frames terrorism in terms of "Islamic Fascists" we are not going to be winning the hearts and minds of many Muslems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hail Haliburton then eh?

I'd say they managed to destroy our shell of innocence and our previous lives. Like Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, 9/11 awoke a sleeping giant, but this time the giant is half alseep or hung over recovering from a wild, drunken, and high night. His judgement is impaired and he is not all there.

Terrorists hide behind a highjacked religion, the lies they tell their ignorant, their so-hatred of the West (which is more jealousy and misunderstandings), and civilians while our war-mongers hide behind a highjacked religion, a long road of lies, a tattered American flag, and the ignorance of a lot of Americans while they make a doormat of our Constitution, legacy, and international image. Oh and they really don't like us backing Israel, but the land belongs to both of them, they just won't give peace a chance. Sad they can't share. If terrorists could see that we don't hate Muslims and our government did a better job at showing them that we don't and look how American Muslims live not as enemies and that we can all still get along under the same God, maybe things would go better. Maybe if we had more regard for Muslim holy lands and not always have an interest in their resources, making them feel used by an arrogant selfish country, maybe things would go better.

Then again too... I have no idea what I'm talking about. I could be completely wrong as usual. But that was an interesting qustion. They always said, don't stop living your lives as normal while we can't live that old normal. Everything's changed. I don't think anyone's really winning. Both sides are stubborn and missing points, so they're destined to butt heads forever unless someone wises up.

No no.. the whole sleeping giant was awoken.. charged forward.. and then half of us were told to go home because we didn't want to play by Bush's rules.

Support for this war against islamic extremist terrorists is waning dangerously because of a badly executed war based on lies (Iraq). Bush has become the boy who cried wolf.

But here is some good news: If Keith Ellison wins the primary in today's election for Minnesota CD 5, he will become the first muslim to serve in the U.S House of Representatives. I think this is an important step forward as the voices of moderate Muslims has not only been squelched by the terrorists, but by us as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What one person says their motives are and what their motives really are can be two very different things.

When it becomes hard to tell the victims from the terrorists, you have to stop and wonder who is really the one with evil intentions, and who is really using the situation to their best advantage. It is possible to have a battle with two bad guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it becomes hard to tell the victims from the terrorists, you have to stop and wonder who is really the one with evil intentions, and who is really using the situation to their best advantage. It is possible to have a battle with two bad guys.

Of course it is possible and often the case. Wars throughout history used peasants, soldiers, and citizens as pawns while the rich and powerful fought out their differences. We have a president that keeps appealing to Christians and uses us to fight the Muslims. Longest war in history -- it has been going on since the Jews/Christians/Muslims decided the holy land was theirs, this is just one huge battle that most of us want nothing to do with.

I'll say it again, if the terrorists wanted to upset our way of life it worked and our president keeps making it work by sending our troops over to fight with them -- just what they wanted -- it is hard to be a islamic fighter with no one to fight. They would never have the opportunity to fight this many of our soldiers if we would have been smarter, more strategic, and had the common sense to put ourselves in their shoes and fight in a manner that would have really hurt them. We did, at first in Afghanistan, no one really thought we were not justified in that, but now with our soldiers all over Iraq, our bombs and 'copters being used in Lebannon all they have to do is point to the uneducated they usually recruit and show them the enemy. We made it very easy for them.

No one wants to be lax and not try to protect ourselves, but kicking a hornets nest doesn't destroy it, is brings them all out -- you destroy it by sneaking up at night and burning the thing while they hornets are all inside sleeping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bin Laden's cadre took the opportunity to bring down two towers and kill 3000+ people. A year later they were a broken organization. The Taliban, where they had been getting their shelter, was destroyed, many of Bin Laden's high command had been killed or captured, and the entire world had sympathy for what happened to the USA. There was even vast sympathy in the Middle East for what happened to the USA. Documents recovered, but kept out of the public's eyes, revealed an Al Queda leadership that was in total dispair. Not only was their terrorist machinery and financing mostly destroyed, but more importantly they were condemned by almost everyone in the world, including all enemies of the USA.

For a brief moment in time, the USA had all of the political capital and good will it needed to put an end to this organization and bring true peace to the Middle East. Yet it all slipped away.

What happened? Why is Al Queda on the rise again? Why are there wars there now? Why George Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq of course, and the continuing slaughter that takes place there everyday. Instead of using the good will and cooperation that came from the 9/11 tragedy, our President and the NeoCons that pull his strings used the event to start a war, spy on Americans, run secret torture prisons, and cause the deaths of thousands. To most of the world there is no difference in what Al Queda did, and what Bush did to Iraq.

This is why Al Queda is on the rise again, and I can tell you, the "Stay the Course" is a definate plan to lose. (unless you are benefit from the war profits, but that is another story)

I usually try to stay away from these topics, but this post sums it up so well I wanted to give it a nod. I remember being quite proud to be an American back right after Afghanistan (what was that, spring 2002?). Now I'm ashamed, of my country's leadership to say the least...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Keith Ellison won the primary in Minneapolis, and will be the first Muslim to serve in the House of Representatives. (A Republican victory in this district is about as likely as Hillary Clinton supporting Pat Buchanon for president)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bin Laden's cadre took the opportunity to bring down two towers and kill 3000+ people. A year later they were a broken organization. The Taliban, where they had been getting their shelter, was destroyed, many of Bin Laden's high command had been killed or captured, and the entire world had sympathy for what happened to the USA. There was even vast sympathy in the Middle East for what happened to the USA. Documents recovered, but kept out of the public's eyes, revealed an Al Queda leadership that was in total dispair. Not only was their terrorist machinery and financing mostly destroyed, but more importantly they were condemned by almost everyone in the world, including all enemies of the USA.

For a brief moment in time, the USA had all of the political capital and good will it needed to put an end to this organization and bring true peace to the Middle East. Yet it all slipped away.

What happened? Why is Al Queda on the rise again? Why are there wars there now? Why George Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq of course, and the continuing slaughter that takes place there everyday. Instead of using the good will and cooperation that came from the 9/11 tragedy, our President and the NeoCons that pull his strings used the event to start a war, spy on Americans, run secret torture prisons, and cause the deaths of thousands. To most of the world there is no difference in what Al Queda did, and what Bush did to Iraq.

This is why Al Queda is on the rise again, and I can tell you, the "Stay the Course" is a definate plan to lose. (unless you are benefit from the war profits, but that is another story)

I have to agree this is a marvelously written post....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.